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Featured Islam Ten facts Muslims cannot deny and Ten question Muslims cannot Answer!

Discussion in 'Debate Non-Christian Religions' started by DWA2DAY, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. DWA2DAY

    DWA2DAY convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!

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    The Islamic Dilemma
    Compiled by Doug Less-Smith
    Information from David Wood

    Fact # 1
    According to the Quran Jesus was a prophet of Islam. Surah 42:13


    He has ordained for you of religion what He enjoined upon Noah and that which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what We enjoined upon Abraham and Moses and Jesus - to establish the religion and not be divided therein. Difficult for those who associate others with Allah is that to which you invite them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He wills and guides to Himself whoever turns back [to Him].


    · Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus were all prophets teaching the same religion, Islam. In fact according to the Quran Surah 19:23-33 Jesus began teaching Islam when he was still a baby.


    Fact # 2
    According to the Quran a number of Jesus listeners became Muslims. Surah 3:52 & 5:111

    But when Jesus felt [persistence in] disbelief from them, he said, "Who are my supporters for [the cause of] Allah?" The disciples said," We are supporters for Allah. We have believed in Allah and testify that we are Muslims [submitting to Him].

    And [remember] when I inspired to the disciples, "Believe in Me and in My messenger Jesus." They said, "We have believed, so bear witness that indeed we are Muslims [in submission to Allah ]."


    · Jesus preach and was successful winning converts to Islam. Therefore Jesus had Muslim followers in the first century.

    Fact # 3
    In the Quran, Allah promises Jesus that His followers would be superior to unbelievers until the day of resurrection. Surah 3:55


    [Mention] when Allah said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to Allah alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ.

    · Allah promises Jesus followers will be protected and be superior to unbelievers till the day of resurrection. (this is a long time) Since the day of resurrection has come yet – Jesus followers are still under Allah’s protection.

    Fact # 4
    If there were any first century Jews that converted to Islam, after hearing Jesus preach, they did not last very long.


    The Quranic claim that Jesus followers were Muslims – Fact # 2 raises an obvious question! Why have we never hear of any first century followers of Jesus who were Muslims? We have a ton of historical information of Jesus first century followers, but no evidence at all that they were Muslims. We have both Christian and no-Christian source that tell us what Jesus followers believed. Yet none of these source suggest anything remotely resembling Islam.

    · Therefore Muslims must agree that the Muslim followers of Jesus did not last very long as they left no historical foot print. Alternatively the Quran must be wrong!
    Fact # 5
    According to the Quran Allah help Jesus gain the upper hand over the Jews who rejected Jesus. Surah 61:14


    O you who have believed, be supporters of Allah , as when Jesus, the son of Mary, said to the disciples, "Who are my supporters for Allah ?" The disciples said, "We are supporters of Allah ." And a faction of the Children of Israel believed and a faction disbelieved. So We supported those who believed against their enemy, and they became dominant.

    · Allah aided the followers of Jesus till they gained the upper hand over the Jews. It must be noted in the first century Christians were the persecuted minority. Therefore Allah promised that Jesus followers were to be victorious would come some time later.

    Fact # 6
    The only followers of Jesus who became superior over the Jews were Christians who believed in the death resurrection and deity of Jesus.


    From fact # 4 we know that the followers of Jesus who became dominate and powerful were not Muslims. We also know that follower of Jesus did become victorious over the Jews, we also know what these followers believed and it was not Islam.

    · Interesting to note that Muslim commentators admit the Quran is referring to Christian who took over the Roman Empire, they permeated the Roman Empire and Christianity became the predominate religion of the world. The Muslim commutator Yusuf Ali confirms this : - Commentary on surah 61:14 english-quran-with-commentaries(yusuf-ali)

    Fact # 7
    The Quran states that the Injil (Gospel) was give as a guidance for mankind. Surah 3:3-4


    He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. Before, as guidance for the people. And He revealed the Qur'an. Indeed, those who disbelieve in the verses of Allah will have a severe punishment, and Allah is exalted in Might, the Owner of Retribution

    · Allah’s goal was to give mankind the Gospel so it can be a guidance for mankind. This raises the question was Allah successful in achieving this goal or not.

    Fact # 8
    According to the Quran Christians still possessed the Gospel during Mohammad’s time. Surah 18:27


    And recite, [O Muhammad], what has been revealed to you of the Book of your Lord. There is no changer of His words, and never will you find in other than Him a refuge

    · Contrary to the Muslim belief today the Quran assets that no one can change Allah’s words. Thus the Quran insists that the Gospel is the word of Allah and no one can change Allah’s words. It also declares that 7th Century Christians were reading the Torah and Gospels.

    Surah 7:157
    Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful.

    · How can we find Mohammad written down in the Gospel if we do not have the Gospel? If were accept the Muslim view that the Gospel is corrupted but there are some parts that are not, How do we then know the parts about Mohammad are also not corrupted?

    · What is the point of referring to a book to validate your prophet when at the same time you are claim the book you are referring to is been corrupted?

    Surah 5:47
    And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.

    · Here we see not only was the gospel available in the 7th century but Allah commands
    Christians to Judge by the Gospel.

    · If the Gospel has been corrupted then Christians have no bases for their faith as Allah tells the Christians in Surah 5:68

    Say, "O People of the Scripture, you are [standing] on nothing until you uphold [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord." And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. So do not grieve over the disbelieving people.

    · Allah revealed the Gospel – Fact # 7
    · No one can change Allah’s word – Surah 18:27
    · Christians were reading the Gospel during the time of Mohammad – Surah 5:47
    · Allah commands Christians to Judge by the Gospel – Surah 5:68
    · It is clear according to the Quran Christians had the Gospel during the time of Mohammad.
    · This means that the Gospel was reliably transmitted from the 1st century all the way to the 7th century.

    Fact # 9
    If there was a 1st Century Gospel fundamentally different from the New Testament it was corrupted very early in the 1st century or lost entirely.


    The Gospels from the 2nd Century were known as the Four Fold Gospels or simple the Gospel, teaching the death resurrection and deity of Jesus as fundamental doctrines. Since the Quran tell us Allah inspired the Gospel and we know the gospel we have contradicts the Quran. Muslims are forced to claim that the Gospel been corrupted.

    · We have thousands of manuscripts of the Gospel but none of them agree with Islam. So what happened to the Gospel that Allah inspired?
    · The conclusion would be that the Quran is simply wrong when it claims there was once an Islamic Gospel.
    · However let us simple agree that there is no record of an Islamic Gospel and thus it was corrupted very early in the 1st Century or lost entirely. Therefore did not make a significant impact.

    Fact # 10
    According to Islam Allah tricked the Jews into believing that they had crucified Jesus.


    · We know historically that Jesus death was common knowledge by ancient authorities. Jesus earliest followers including Peter, James and John came to believe that Jesus died on the cross for their sins and that he had risen from the death.
    · All four gospels confirm early Christian belief that in Jesus death and resurrection. As does the book of Acts and Pauls letter repeatedly claim the death and resurrection of Jesus.
    · The Christian creed in I Corinthians 15 is dated to a few years of Jesus life confirms the death and resurrection of Jesus.

    · We also have writings from outside of the Christian faith that confirm the death and resurrection of Jesus. Eg Clement of Rome, Polycarp, Josephus and Tacitus.

    But Islam asserts that Jesus never died or was raised from the dead. If Islam is correct then why have some many people, Christian and non-Christian believed that Jesus died by crucifixion? According to the Quran Allah tricked people into believing Jesus was crucified.

    Surah 4:157-158
    And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.

    · This is known as the substitution theory by Muslims – Allah took someone else and disguised him to look like Jesus and put them in Jesus place for the Crucifixion – Commonly thought to be Judas.
    · Jesus death and resurrection ids foundation in the Christian faith. Thus if Allah had not tricked the Jews into believing they had crucified Jesus there would be no Christianity.
    · Therefore Allah through deception and trickery start Christianity.

    Ten Question Muslims cannot Answer.
    Question One

    Assuming that the Muslin view is correct what happened to Jesus Muslim followers in the 1st Century?

    Question Two
    Why would Allah lead Jesus followers astray and destroy everything Jesus work so hard to accomplish?

    Question Three
    Why did Allah tell his followers they would be superior until the day of resurrection?

    Question Four
    If the gospel was given as a guidance for mankind, why did Allah not preserve his message and rather start to help a heresy?

    Question Five
    If the Islamic Gospel was corrupted so quickly that we have no evidence that it ever existed, why did Allah say it was still available during Mohammad’s time?

    Question Six
    If Allah is powerless to stop people corrupting his message can we trust the Quran?

    Question Seven
    Once the Christian heresy had started why did Allah help them to rise to power?

    Question Eight
    If Allah deceives people who follow his prophets, how do Muslims know that Allah is not deceiving them?

    Question Nine
    Since Allah deceived people about Jesus, as since Allah could not protect Jesus message, what did Jesus ultimately accomplish?

    Question Ten
    How does all this compare to the Christian view?

    Answer # 10
    Muslim claim that they worship a superior god and believe in a deity that deceives people for no reason, overthrows the work of his prophets, starts false religions, is powerless to preserve his message. Although he calls himself the truth, promises to protect his followers and boasts that no one can change his word. Muslims claim to have a superior view of Jesus yet claim he accomplished nothing of any lasting significance and was utterly incompetent in choosing disciples.

    If the Quran is true then Allah ignorant and deceptive, Jesus was irrelevant and incompetent while his disciples that were weak willed and unreliable. Islam is one massive insult to God, to Jesus and to Jesus followers. On the surface Islam look promotes reverence for God and respect but when we dig deeper we find blasphemous, incoherent nonsense. This is what one would expect from a false religion.

    Christianity on the other hand honours God, god of the Bible is perfect in it attributes, Gods justices is perfect therefor all sin must be punished. God love and mercy are also perfect therefore he is vastly more loving than we can ever hope to be. So much so that He is willing to take the punishment of sin on Himself. God loves sinners so much He entered into creation to pay the price for our sins. As Jesus of Nazareth He fulfilled His mission perfectly and suffered for our sake so we could stand before God with the righteousness of Christ.
     
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  2. Silmarien

    Silmarien Trading Sartre for Kierkegaard

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    I believe the theory is that Islam derives its concept of Jesus from the Ebionite Christian movement that would still have been around at that point. They rejected the divinity of Christ and considered Paul an apostate. Which is another thing that needs to be taken into account concerning the Islamic view of Christianity--they argue that Paul was a false prophet who corrupted the religion. I'd assume they got that from the Ebionites too. And their take on the Crucifixion is pure Gnosticism.

    If you remove the divinity of Christ and Paul's Justification by Faith doctrine, I'd say the religion is quite close to Islam, so I think calling the earliest followers of Christ "Muslims" is a matter of semantics, really.

    I think many of your ten questions apply regardless of which religion is correct. Why was Islam allowed to rise to power if it's false? Why have followers of both religions historically been laid astray and started working against their own religions?
     
  3. DWA2DAY

    DWA2DAY convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!

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    Assumption and what you think Muslims may argue are no ground for an argument or discussion.

    Well if you removed God from the Bible what is the point of the Bible. Kind of like wanting a owners manual for a Porcha and you buy one for a vuka scooter and wonder why you can not find out were the gear lever is. If your view of an after life is not a concern for you then I understand it may seem petty.

    Since the Quran foundation is based on the Bible and is not a religion that can stand on. While the bible relies only on its prophets and writings found in the Bible your statement is baseless.
    To answer your question, Islam though defined as a religion is more than that, it is the Muslims fundamental bases for life that is formulated from the Sunnas and peregrinates all forms of life from family, business and politics. further it is a system of forced adherence and if one chose not to follow its rules it will in many instance cost your life.
     
  4. gadar perets

    gadar perets Well-Known Member

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    I agree with most of what you posted except when it adds in the unscriptural "Fact" of the deity of Jesus. That is a much later Christian invention. The Scriptures teach no such doctrine.
     
  5. Silmarien

    Silmarien Trading Sartre for Kierkegaard

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    How on earth are the origins of the Islamic view of Christianity not grounds for a discussion? I'm aware of Islamic literature on Paul. I know what's been written about him. You seem mystified about where all this stuff comes from, but it's not very hard at all once you look at exactly what sort of Christians the early Muslims would have had contact with.

    When did I say anything was petty? I'm again, very aware that Islam is as much a complex, rule based system as it is a religion. So is Judaism, and the only reason Christianity isn't is that Paul argued that the works of the law were no longer necessary. If someone's starting point is that Paul was a false prophet who purposefully led Christians astray, then what you would conceive of as "true Christianity" would look a lot closer to Islam. Especially once you toss in Unitarianism. This has nothing to do with removing God from the Bible.

    I have no idea how my view of an afterlife has anything to do with the Islamic view of Christianity and where it comes from.

    You do realize that Judaism has a whole bunch of extra-biblical literature too, right?
     
  6. DWA2DAY

    DWA2DAY convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!

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    On what do you base this statement. If you have proof I would love to review it as the Death Resurrection and Deity of Jesus is foundational to the Christian belief. If you can prove it is not so, Christian fails.
    For example Jesus fulfills some 355 prophecy from the old testament to start with. How does this fit your perspective that this is a Christian invention.
    Secondly did the Christians of Jesus time plot to kill Jesus or was this the Jews?
    If Christians invented the death resurrection and deity of Jesus, please explain the Historical writings of Jewish historian like Josephus who confirm the death resurrection and deity of Jesus. Then of cause there is the eyewitness account in the New Testament. Not to mention even hard core atheist such as Bart Erthman accept the Crucifixion of Jesus.
    I look forward to your reply.
     
  7. DWA2DAY

    DWA2DAY convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!

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    You clearly made the statement "if one is to remove the divinity of Christ from the Bible" since you have no saving God figure one must assume your faith what ever it is, is baseless and thus you have no concern for the after life.
    You made the comment I just responded to your view that one needs to to take the divinity of God out of the Bible. Seems like I hit a nerve of truth.

    Simply you are not a Muslim therefore have no ground to make an argument and or assumptions for the Muslim faith as you did.
    Therefore you as a non Muslim you have no authority talk on there behalf. Make a stand on you own belief and base you argument or discussion on that. If this offends you please check out the posting rules of the site to gain a deeper understanding.

    Again this is " if someone -----" what are your views. Talking on the hypothesis of what someone may say is not a discussion.
     
  8. gadar perets

    gadar perets Well-Known Member

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    I do not deny the death, burial and resurrection of our Savior Yeshua. Nor do I deny any prophecies about him. I only stated that the "deity of Jesus" is a Christian invention. The God of the Bible cannot die, nor can He be tempted, nor can there be something He doesn't know. Yeshua is the Son of the Deity of the Bible.
     
  9. Silmarien

    Silmarien Trading Sartre for Kierkegaard

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    I said that if you disregarded the divinity of Christ, you'd get something closer to Islam. There were early Christian groups that held to such beliefs. I'm not sure why you think it necessary or appropriate to jump from a historical analysis to making sweeping claims about my own religious beliefs. They're closer to Christianity than anything else, but I am particularly interested in the early evolution of the church.

    Ah, whoops. I thought it was the Christianity and World Religion forum. My mistake.

    On Paul? I think he was divinely inspired and I see his contributions as legitimate. I used to think that he singlehandedly destroyed Christianity, though, so I'm familiar with criticisms of him, including from the Islamic point of view.

    What you seem to have missed is that I've been giving my answer your Question One--what happened to Jesus's Muslim followers? I'm not sure there would have been many differences between Christian groups like the Ebionites, who held to the law and denied the divinity of Christ, and the later Muslims. I do not need to agree with the Ebionites to see the link there.
     
  10. susan cramer

    susan cramer New Member

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    We can all get along

    If we just follow the same basic laws

    .,.,.,.,.,.Which we all actually doo.,.,.,.,.,.

    Every member of the United Nations including Islam
    has on their books the following laws

    Six (6) of the Ten Commandments have been put into “law” in all the member states of the United Nations including Islamic States

    5
    Honor your father and your mother.

    6
    You shall not murder.
    7
    You shall not commit adultery.

    8
    You shall not steal.

    9
    You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

    10
    You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”

    You cannot find one member state

    of the United Nations

    that does not have

    the above laws on their books

    Do you agree or not-?

    Just asking :)-​
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  11. DWA2DAY

    DWA2DAY convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!

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    when I read the above comment you have made. I understand the following.
    Jesus was not God - as God of the bible can not die or be tempered. The death and resurrection of Jesus is true but Yeshua is only Gods son not God. It was the early church who invented this.

    If I understanding is correct - then please offer proof - as if you are correct the Christian faith fails completely as its fundamental core foundation is the Jesus is God. Thus the New Testament as we know it is a fabrication.
     
  12. DWA2DAY

    DWA2DAY convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!

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    Great -
    So what in your opinion happened to the Ebionites?, where is there Gospel? What historical proof do you have they were the disciples and or early followers / converts of Jesus. With reference to Surah 3:55 there is a period of 600 years of silance before Islam - why if Allah said they would be around till the day of resurrection.
     
  13. DWA2DAY

    DWA2DAY convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!

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    We can sugar coat the surface and make things look inviting and acceptable on many levels. The real truth lies in ones heart. From an Christian / Islamic perspective the heart of the matter is the age old battle of good and evil, God and Satan.
     
  14. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member

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    Jesus pbuh gives some good pointers:
    Matthew 12:25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?

    With this in mind notice every time a Muslim starts to read any chapter of the Qur'an they start with:

    Audhu Billahi minash shaitanir rajeem. Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim which translate as follows:

    I seek Allah's protection/refuge/shelter from Satan, the Accursed one. In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

    Here listen to it with headphones on at medium vol, and should make your head buzz:


    Also a true Muslim is one who obey the One True GOD of Abraham who forbids stealing, murder, idol worshipping. Enjoins right, forbids wrongdoing. Instructs followers to be kind to women and children, the elderly, the poor, to love your neighbour whether they be Muslim or not. Instructs us to give in charity, stay away from alcohol, gambling, pornography, don't deal in interest. Don't pollute the environment, don't hurt innocent people in times of war. Accept all previous Messengers including Abraham, Noah, Moses, David, Solomon, Jesus and finally Muhammad, may the blessings of Allah be upon them all.

    And take this message to all mankind.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
  15. Niblo

    Niblo Muslim Supporter

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    A very Happy Birthday.
     
  16. DWA2DAY

    DWA2DAY convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!

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    You have just refuted your own statement - Thank you -
    Firstly Allah as we are well aware is not Yahweh from the bible. Allah is the pre-Islamic pagan god worship in and around Arabic before Mohammad - who simple adopted Him into his new religion. surah 53 and the Satanic verses is proof of this.
    Secondly Islam follows pre-Islamic practices, for example 5 prayers a day were pagan belief of Mohammads time he simple incorporated into his new faith to win pagan worshipers over - the same as kissing the black stone, nothing less than idolatry and so on. So as per Mathew 12 you so aptly quote is exaxtly what Muslim are doing - Pray for protection against
    Satan yet practice satanic rituals.

    Well you may think and say you do - but in truth you do not. Islam claims the bible is fabricated and or corrupted. Referance to A.S.K Joomal and A Deedat. Yet the quran says other wise, in fact the Quran commands you to seek answers from the Christians when in doubt - Surah 5:47, 7:157, 10:94
    Not to mention the Quran instruct you to kill the non believers - Surah 9:5 - this is murder and Muslim are actively following this instruction today. Therefore you do not honor Yahweh at all.

    I work in the Muslim mission field - and with the Somalian converts we deal with there families publicly post there picture with to kill instructions when they are found. Muslims do not love there own sons let alone love ones neighbor.

    please tell me what you accept about the previous revelation that Jesus is the Son of God, was crucified for your sins and was resurrected.
    In fact in a previous thread I challenged you to answer my questions which you denied - Why because we both know Islam is a false religion based on pagan worship, borrowed writings and a false prophet. While Muslims themselves do not follow the own teaching.
     
  17. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member

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    Firstly no need to argue about name of GOD as we have been over this plenty. Just remember no one on Planet Earth knows how to pronounce YHWH. Yahweh is a best guess and people have their own theories of how it came about. Christian Arabs use Allah when referring to God.

    Satanic verses 53:19-24

    So have you considered al-Lat and al-'Uzza?
    And Manat, the third - the other one?

    Is the male for you and for Him the female?
    That, then, is an unjust division.

    They are not but [mere] names you have named them - you and your forefathers - for which Allah has sent down no authority. They follow not except assumption and what [their] souls desire, and there has already come to them from their Lord guidance.


    Just wishful thinking on your part.


    Please bring proof 5 prayers were prior to Islam, and bring a verse from the Qur'an or authentic Hadiths showing you are allowed to pray and ask a stone for help :/

    I have shown many times on this forum, this is indeed the case. Watch Bart Ehrman vs Daniel Wallace where even Daniel confirms they can only reconstruct the NT back to the 4th Century, so this means Christians have no idea what the original NT looked like.

    5:47 - You have to check the context:

    46: And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah. <<<Law and Commandments to be followed, Matthew 5:17-19

    47: Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. <<<Judge what was revealed by Allah swt in the Gospel, (Singular) not later Gospels from Greek philosophers!

    48: And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. <<< Use the Qur'an as guidance, invite them to the truth.


    7:157 "Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful."

    Not sure how that assists you?


    Verses 10:90-93 are about what happened to Moses pbuh and if Muhammad pbuh is in doubt, then ask those who read the previous Scriptures, Jews and Christians for confirmation regarding Moses pbuh (ver 94). Also this would prove that Allah swt had indeed chosen Muhammad pbuh to be a Messenger, as they could confirm God speaks to Prophets.


    Read from verse 1-6 for context:

    1: [This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists.
    2: So travel freely, [O disbelievers], throughout the land [during] four months but know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.

    3: And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away - then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.

    4: Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].


    5: And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

    6: And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.

    GOD banned the polytheists from the sacred sanctuary and gave them a grace period to come to truth or leave.

    Yeah sure, what ever you say.

    I accept what the true Christians believed like his brother James pbuh. Go and read up on what he believed, after all unlike the Gospel writers and Paul, James pbuh grew up with Jesus pbuh and learned directly from him.

    No I just know from past experience with you, that you just like to dig your heels in and argue for the sake of it. Talking of which, when you respond and dispute, please bring Hadiths and not biographies with disclaimers showing they were just passing on unfounded gossip. Thanks in advance, and peace.
     
  18. gadar perets

    gadar perets Well-Known Member

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    The core foundation of Christianity today is that Jesus is God. That wasn't the case in Paul's day. Before I offer any proof, do you agree that the Scriptures teach monotheism?
     
  19. DWA2DAY

    DWA2DAY convictions are worse Enemies of Truth than Lies!

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    Great work of copy and pasting - well done.
    Do you have any comment or rebuttal on the fact that your contradicted your own argument.

    Remember the balance of scales - you demand proof yet are incapable of offering any.
     
  20. gadar perets

    gadar perets Well-Known Member

    +429
    Non-Trinitarian
    Single
    How did I contradict my own argument? I am perfectly capable of providing proof. If you denied monotheism, then my proof would start with showing that is what Scriptures teach.
     
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