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Ten Contradictions That Christians Can't Stop Making.

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics' started by Steve Petersen, Jul 11, 2017.

  1. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    Well thought out.
     
  2. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    One common trend i see from many; when something good happens, they attribute it to god and his will. When something bad happens you get; who could possibly know the will of god. And they do all this, with a straight face.
     
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  3. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    From the blog:
    'This one always makes me laugh. For one thing, no one needs to try to make scripture look bad; it does that all by itself with its genocide and rape and slavery and conquest and general bloodthirsty, vengeful douchebaggery. For another thing, scripture is packed with so many mutually exclusive commands and prohibitions that cherry-picking is required if one is to follow or even just discuss it. The only question is which cherries one will pick. Some will pick the ones about love and kindness and charity and claim these are the “real” version of their religion, leaving the others – the ones about torture and violence and cruelty – on the branch, hoping no one will notice them. Perhaps cherry-picking isn’t even the right metaphor. I think a better one is the Tree of 40 Fruit: Some of what it has to offer is sweet, some is bitter, and some may even be poisonous, but it all grows from the same plant.'​
     
  4. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things" Supporter

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    The standard propaganda misrepresentations against the Old Testament that fool some people who never read through full books and don't know better than to rely on out of context isolated verses.

    In order to negate the power of things like "love your neighbor as yourself" the propagandist will need to prevent people from reading the Word of God altogether.

    To do that he needs to misrepresent it.

    In order to slant and misrepresent, he needs to isolate verses out of context.

    Like taking a snapshot of someone shooting another person, without any context. Can't see any details. Don't know what's happening.

    Then provide a false conclusion, like the text endorses rape, etc., like the above rant you quoted.

    Even though what actually is in the text is 180 degrees to the opposite several times...

    ...like when tens of thousands of Israelites where killed with God's help because they refused to give up a rapist to justice.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  5. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    OP:...Q1:..."Ten (UN-BELIEVERS' APPARENT) Contradictions That Christians (Christ-Followers)" Can't Stop Making."...

    A1: All Christ-Followers "can stop ANYTHING" that they are spirit-led to think/do!

    Principle #1: UN-BELIEVERS cannot spiritually discern the ABSOLUTE SPIRITUAL TRUTHs contained in the Bible AND in other spirit-led "writings".

    Principle #2: UN-BELIEVERS can create APPARENT CONTRADICTIONS through false human logic and relative, changing "morality".

    Principle #3: ABSOLUTE SPIRITUAL TRUTHS may humanly SEEM to be in contradiction, BUT each is TRUE UNTO ITSELF

    RE: Principle #1

    1 Corinthians 2: 6-16 (NIV1984)...Wisdom From the SPIRIT
    ...God’s secret wisdom,
    a wisdom that has been hidden and
    that God destined for our glory before time began....
    but God has revealed it (wisdom) to us (BELIEVERS) by his Spirit.
    The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
    For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him?
    In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
    We have not received the spirit of the world
    but the Spirit who is from God,
    that we may understand what God has freely given us.This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit,
    expressing SPIRITUAL TRUTHS in spiritual words.
    The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    1 Corinthians 1:18...[The Wisdom of God]
    For the "word of the cross" (substitutionary atonement) is foolishness to those who are perishing,(UN-BELIEVERS)
    but to us who are being saved (sanctified) it is the power of God.

    Matthew 7:6 (NASB)...Jesus: to the crowds...Sermon on the Mount
    “Do not give what is holy (spiritual truths) to dogs (un-believers),
    and do not throw your pearls (spiritual truths) before swine (un-believers),
    or they will trample them (spiritual truths) under their feet (disdain),
    and turn and tear you to pieces. (attack you personally!)

    S1:.."1.A. Explaining what God "is" or "wants",
    1.B. "then" saying humans cannot understand God.(FULLY!/PERFECTLY!)

    BOTH ARE ABSOLUTE SPIRITUAL TRUTHS:!!

    "GOD IS:"

    The many attributes / character traits / nature of the TRI-UNE GOD which are found in the Bible and spirit-led writings!

    1. Existent
    2. Unified
    3. Simple...Holy...Righteous...perfectly Good...omnibenevolence
    4. Infinite
    5. Eternal
    6. Unchanging and unchangeable CHARACTER + attributes
    7. All Present (spiritually available)
    8. All Sovereign (supreme rule over all)
    9. All Knowing (omniscience)
    10. All powerful (omnipotence)
    11. Perfectly JUST
    12. Perfectly LOVING / Merciful / GRACE-FULL

    13. Perfectly TRUE / Truthful
    14. Perfectly FREE
    15. Perfectly separate and pure

    "God "wants/desires/wishes"
    ...NOTE: God NEEDS nothing! He is all everything...the CREATOR!

    1 Chronicles 28:9...King David passes the Kingdom to his wise son
    “As for you, my son Solomon,
    know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind;
    for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts.
    >>>If you seek Him, He will let you find Him;<<<
    but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.

    1 Timothy 2:1-6 (4-5) (NASB)
    ...(God) who desires all men
    to be saved and
    to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    For there is
    one God, and
    one mediator also
    between God and men,
    the man Christ Jesus,
    who gave Himself as a ransom for all,
    the testimony given at the proper time...

    2 Peter 3:9
    The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness;
    but is longsuffering to us-ward,
    not willing that any should perish,
    but that all should come to repentance.

    PERFECTLY "UNDERSTANDING" GOD.

    Psalm 145:3
    Great is the Lord, and highly to be praised,
    And His greatness is unsearchable.

    Romans 11:33
    Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
    How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!

    NEXT:
    S2:...1a:""Claiming" that God loves us all, then
    1b: "rationalizing" human suffering.

    A2: GENERALLY: (without supporting Scripture later)
    A2/1a: x.God is perfectly LOVING/MERCIFUL/GRACE-FULL.
    y. God is perfectly JUST and renders perfectly "fair" JUDGMENTS in relation to Mankind.
    z. God loves sinners. God hates sin/sin(s)/sin nature.
    A2/1b: The buck does NOT stop with God who allows "free will" and "principle of Sow & Reap" to operate.

    ALL God creates is perfectly "GOOD". Genesis chapters 1+2.

    INTERVENING proximate causes of "evil"(absence of God) and human "suffering": (ALL to His GLORY!)
    1. a chaotic natural "world" (kozmos)
    2. the innate and natural-born "sin nature" of Mankind
    3. the allowing of evil spirit beings to attack the body/soul/spirit of Mankind
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
  6. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    x. "...God is perfectly LOVING/MERCIFUL/GRACE-FULL...."

    God IS "Love".

    The "Love" referred to is on a SPIRITUAL level, ONE of the many attributes / character traits of the TRI-UNE GOD.
    "Agape" love is an unconditional "giving to" in the community of Man....a spiritual essence...John 3

    The sentence "God is Love." appears within 1 John 4: 7-21

    God's LOVE / MERCY is generally hard to spiritually perceive in God's JUSTICE / JUDGMENTS..

    Psalm 37:28
    For the Lord loves justice And does not forsake His godly ones; They are preserved forever,...
    Amos 5:15
    Hate evil, love good, And establish justice in the gate!

    y. God is perfectly JUST and renders perfectly "fair" JUDGMENTS in relation to Mankind.

    God is perfectly JUST.
    His JUSTICE and JUDGMENTS are perfectly carried out and "fair" with respect to His "GOOD" Creation.

    A perfectly SOVREIGN and JUST KING must render JUDGMENTS against: a Man, Mankind, and NATIONS (societies/peoples: from infants to aged to animals)
    who have TOTALLY REJECTED Him and His perfect GOOD, His perfect WISDOM, His perfect PROVISIONS.

    JUST / justice = perfect respect and treatment in accordance with perfect standards.

    Deuteronomy 32 (NASB)....The Song of Moses....God: ...all His ways are JUST
    4 “The Rock!
    His work is perfect,
    For all His ways are JUST;
    A God of faithfulness and without injustice,
    Righteous and upright is He.

    Genesis 18:25...God judges with perfect JUSTICE
    Far be it from You to do such a thing,
    to slay the righteous with the wicked,
    so that the righteous and the wicked are treated alike.
    Far be it from You!
    Shall not the Judge of all the earth deal JUSTLY?”

    GOD’S RIGHTEOUS "Anger":

    “God judgeth the righteous,
    and God is angry with the wicked every day.” Psalm 7:11

    GOD’S Jealousy:
    “For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy:
    for I have espoused you to one husband,
    that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.”
    2 Corinthians 11:2

    “Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God,
    visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;”
    Exodus 20:5

    GOD’S Wrath:

    “God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth;
    the LORD revengeth, and is furious;
    the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and
    he reserveth wrath for his enemies.”
    Nahum 1:2

    “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven
    against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;”
    Romans 1:18

    GOD’S Vengeance:

    “Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves,
    but rather give place unto wrath:
    for it is written,
    Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.”
    Romans 12:19

    “To me belongeth vengeance and recompence;
    their foot shall slide in due time:
    for the day of their calamity is at hand, and
    the things that shall come upon them make haste.”
    Deuteronomy 32:35

    GOD'S perfect JUSTICE is against those who put other gods, people and things before HIM.

    John 3:36...JOHN the BAPTIZER RE:Jesus
    ....He who believes in the Son has eternal life;
    but he who does not obey the Son will not see life,
    but the WRATH of God abides on him.”

    Romans 5:9...
    Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be SAVED from the WRATH of God THROUGH Him.

    NEXT:...S3 1a.:"free will" and
    S3 1b.: a "divine plan" (irrevocable PRE-DESTINATION?)
    are not mutually exclusive.
     
  7. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    Who does that?

    God does love us all and what is the alternative to rationalization human suffering? Should we pretend it's irrational.

    Pretending that free will isn't part of the divine plan? Really? God has a plan and you have a choice, I don't see the conflict let alone a basis for making them mutually exclusive.

    Hateful about what and God bless you for what? That makes no sense.

    God is the source of all morality and hermenutics is another issue. Your really on a non sequitur roll here.

    God didn't create evil, evil is the lack of God. The Devil has earned a lot of blame for evil he brought into the universe, that's between him and God.

    God acting in time and space is supernatural for us, for God it is perfectly natural. I make no apologies for standing on the clear testimony of Scripture when science fails to prove it's enormous presuppositional projections regarding natural history.

    I consider people who disagree with my religious convictions wrong, they may well be crazy, but I don't automatically assume that is the reason they are wrong.

    Like that never happened.

    I don't care what your interpretation of religion is, except and an interesting intellectual exercise. My religious convictions are based on what I know to be true and as far as what you believe, that's between you and the God who made you. You will answer to him, regardless of what you manage to rationalize in this life.

    Grace and peace,
    Mark



    Ten Contradictions Theists Just Can’t Stop Making
    [/QUOTE]
     
  8. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    S3 1a.:"free will" and
    S3 1b.: a "divine plan" (irrevocable PRE-DESTINATION?)
    are not mutually exclusive.

    AS3 1a: The true spiritual doctrine of "free will":

    START HERE:

    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...the-all-everything-attributes-of-god.8011130/

    The true doctrine of "FREE WILL"??: Biblical examples??

    Gods Grace vs Free Will

    The "FREE WILL" doctrine

    The spiritual GIFT of "free will" presents/allows Mankind with a spiritual CHOICE: ACCEPT or REJECT the spiritual CALLING/DRAWING of God.

    1. The spiritual "free will" of Man and angels is allowed to operate within:

    2. the all-everything perfect will of the TRI-UNE GOD.

    Both doctrines are TRUE. They are not in conflict.

    God FORE-KNOWS all. God does not irrevocably PRE-DETERMINE all.

    The DOCTRINE of "Free Will" is TRUE, even though the exact "words" do not appear in the Bible.

    The DOCTRINE of the "TRI-UNE GOD" is TRUE, even though the exact words "trinity" does not appear in the Bible.

    1. God is a perfectly good spirit being, ...all knowing...all seeing...all present ...all powerful...all sovreign... etc.

    2. God FORE-KNOWS all, who would be "saved" before they were ever born in the spiritual image of God. He does not irrevocably PRE-DETERMINE all.

    3. God wants all Men's spirits to return to Him, and
    none to be spiritually separated from the Kingdom of God for spiritual eternity in the "lake of fire"...."eternal SPIRITUAL life".
    " Whosoever will may come, and becometh unto me I will in no wise cast out.”

    4. God spiritually calls/draws.
    Man has a spirit-led volition which allows Him to ACCEPT or REJECT the undeserved gift of Grace through spirit-led Faith/Belief. (John 3 as explained in Ephesians 2)

    5. God spiritually calls/draws. Man has a spirit-led volition which allows Him to ACCEPT or REJECT
    the comfort and guidance of the permanently indwelling God the Holy Spirit after salvation. = the SANCTIFICATION PROCESS.

    6. God gives Man the opportunities to CHOOSE
    ...allowing the freedom to choose...free to follow the will of God...or not.

    7. QED...voila: the "Free Will" of Man!

    CHOOSE LIFE...

    1 Chronicles 28:9...King David upon giving his kingdom to his wise son
    “As for you, my son Solomon,
    know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind;
    for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts.
    IF you seek Him, He will let you find Him;
    but IF you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.

    Deuteronomy 30:19
    I call heaven and earth to witness against you today,
    that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse.
    So CHOOSE LIFE in order that you may live, you and your descendants

    Joshua 24:15
    If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the Lord,
    choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: ...
    but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

    Job 34:4 ...“Let us choose for ourselves what is right;
    Let us know among ourselves what is good.

    Psalm 25:12
    Who is the man who fears (respects/reveres) the Lord? He will instruct him in the way he should CHOOSE!

    Judges 10:14
    Go and cry out to the gods which you have chosen;
    let them deliver you in the time of your distress.”

    Revelation 3:20...CHOOSE : open or close
    Behold, I stand at the door and knock; IF anyone hears My voice and opens the door,
    I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

    "DIVINE PLAN"...PLEASE DEFINE:.

    God is unchanging and unchangeable. (IMMUTABLE)

    BUT:

    The "economy" or God's methods of relating to Man CHANGED from Old Testament times to New Testament due to the historical appearance of Jesus of Nazareth, The Divine Messiah, The Christ, the God-Man., Son of God, Son of Man, etc.

    God FORE-KNOWS all.(OMMISCIENCE) God does NOT irrevocably PRE-DETERMINE all.

    GOD answers ALL the prayers of believers: YES...NO...WAIT!

    James 5:13-16 (NASB)
    Is anyone among you suffering?
    Then he must pray.
    Is anyone cheerful?
    He is to sing praises.
    Is anyone among you sick?
    Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him,
    anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;
    and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and
    the Lord will raise him up, and
    if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.
    Therefore, confess your sins to one another, (believers)and
    pray for one another so that you may be healed.
    >>The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.<<

    Philippians 4: 4-9 (NASB)
    Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice!
    Let your gentle spirit be known to all men.
    The Lord is near.
    >>Be anxious for nothing, but
    in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
    And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension,
    will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.<<
    Finally, brethren,
    whatever is true,
    whatever is honorable,
    whatever is right,
    whatever is pure,
    whatever is lovely,
    whatever is of good repute,
    if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise,
    DWELL (meditate) on these things.
    The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me,
    PRACTICE these things, and the God of peace will be with you

    NEXT:..S4. 1a.."Behaving hatefully", then
    1b.."saying “God bless.”
     
  9. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    NEXT:..S4. 1a.."Behaving hatefully", then
    1b.."saying “God bless.”

    A4: Christ-followers are not perfect. They sin after the SALVATION EVENT. 1 John 1.
    The battle within the SANTIFICATION PROCESS begins after the SALVATION EVENT.

    The "old man", unregenerate with his innate "sin nature" to turn from God and toward self..

    DAILY BATTLES THROUGHOUT LIFE WITH:

    "NEW creature in Christ"...AND...the permanently indwelling God the Holy Spirit
    Who comforts and guides the believer into the "will of God and into spiritual "good works".

    1 Peter 2:21[Christ Is Our Example]
    For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered FOR you,
    leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps,

    1 Timothy 1:16
    Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost,
    Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience
    as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

    Hebrews 12:1[Jesus, the Example] Therefore,
    since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us,
    let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us,
    and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
     
  10. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    S5: 1a:.."Declaring God as the "source of objective morality", then
    1b:..."interpreting Scripture"...

    A5: 1a:...FALSE PREMISE!

    The word "moral" appears only 4 times in the NASB, all unrelated to your theory.

    Man has relative and changing social "morals", ethics, standards, laws, and the like.

    God gives unchanging ABSOLUTE SPIRITUAL TRUTHS in His "word", The Bible.

    A5: 1b:...

    God the Holy Spirit is the ultimate "author" and "interpreter" of Scripture.

    Man uses scholarly "systematic theology". Google that term!
     
  11. Hawkins

    Hawkins Member Supporter

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    A dog only understand what man is or wants as long as man tries to convey who he is to the best of the dog's understanding. The dog of course can't understand man fully, especially in terms of human anatomy.

    My question is rather why such as common sense being classified as a contradiction.
     
  12. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    S6:...1a: ""Labeling" God as "omnipotent", then
    1b: "blaming "evil" on the "devil"..."

    A6: 1a: FALSE PREMISE! GOD IS omnipotent (ALL POWERFULL), among many other attributes and character traits.

    Romans 1:16
    For I am not ashamed of the gospel,
    for it is the "power of God" for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

    2 Chronicles 20:6...and he said,
    “O LORD, the God of our fathers,
    are You not God in the heavens? And
    are You not ruler over all the kingdoms of the nations? Power and might are in Your hand so that no one can stand against You.

    Daniel 2:20...Daniel said,
    “Let the name of God be blessed forever and ever,
    For wisdom and power belong to Him.

    Mark 12:24...Jesus said to them,
    “Is this not the reason you are mistaken, that
    you do not understand the Scriptures or
    the power of God?

    Luke 22:69
    But from now on the Son of Man will be seated at the right hand of the power of God.”

    1 Peter 3:22
    who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.

    A6: 1b: FALSE PREMISE!

    True Christ-followers do NOT use the "devil made me do it" defense to their continued sinning.

    "Evil" is simply a CONCEPT...a spiritual and allowed ABSENCE OF God. E.G.: Dark is the absence of "LIGHT".

    The "devil" is a lessor spirit being allowed to temporarily attack MAN on Planet Earth.
    He is NOT the equal and opposite of God...a FALSE DUALISM!

    1 John 4:4 (NASB)
    You are from God, little children,(believers) and have overcome them (evil spirits);
    because greater is He who is in you (God the Holy Spirit) than he who is in the world.(devil/followers)
     
  13. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    S7: ..."1.a....Seizing upon minuscule inconsistencies in highly specialized scientific disciplines as a failure of science to explain the universe while
    ...1.b...accepting supernatural explanations for which there is no evidence."

    A7: 1.a.WRONG! Theology and science go hand-in-hand. Where science "ends", there stands God!
    God created science. Science acknowledges God.

    1.b.WRONG! TRUTH: Empirical scientific "evidence" can neither PROVE nor DISPROVE the existence of SPIRIT/SOUL/GOD.
    The "supernational" can be explained ONLY by spirit-led FAITH/BELIEF.

    Hebrews 11:1-2 (NASB)...The Triumphs of Faith
    1 Now FAITH(/BELIEF) is
    the assurance of things hoped for,
    the conviction of things not seen.
    2 For by it (FAITH) the men of old (OT) gained approval. (and salvation)
     
  14. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    S8:..."1.a...Subscribing to "religion", then
    ...1.b...labeling the religious beliefs of others as “crazy.”...

    A8:..."1.a...Christ-following is NOT a "religion". It is a spiritual relationship between Man and his God.
    "Religion": defined:...any cultural system of designated behaviors and practices

    A8:..."1.b...
    The "CHURCH" ("The Living Church?") is the collective "Body" of BELIEVERS,
    the members of the "Body of Christ"
    who are permanently indwelt by
    God the Holy Spirit at the time of their Salvation EVENT.
    The "Head" and the "Corner Stone" is God the Son, the historical person of:
    Jesus of Nazareth, The Christ, The Divine Messiah, The God-Man.
    He is the "Bridegroom".
    Revelations 22: 17 The (God the Holy) Spirit and the "bride" (CHURCH) say, "Come "
    Its "building blocks" are the "Grace through Faith" good news which guides the estranged to become a saved BODY + SOUL + SPIRIT.
    Gospel: Jesus the Divine Messaiah has COME DOWN from heaven to save Man from the prison of his sins (redempttion) and eternal spiritual separation from God.

    Ephesians 4: 2-6; 1 Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 1:22; Ephesians 5:23; Colossians 1:18; Revelation 22:16; Psalm 118:22; Isaiah 28:16;
    Matthew 21: 42-45

    1 Corinthians 1:10
    Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    that you all agree and that there be no DIVISIONS among you,
    but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment.
     
  15. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    Saying that God is bigger than we can fully comprehend is not to say that there is nothing about God that we can comprehend. God has revealed His wants through Scripture, so there are some things about God's nature that we can comprehend, but God's is nevertheless finite while our brains are finite. For example, to some degree we can understand that God is love, but fully grasping the greatness of God's love is beyond our understanding.


    Does this mean that God doesn't love His Son? Is it not out of love that parents discipline their children?

    The ability to feel pain is an important indicator that something is wrong, without which we could easily cause severe and/or permanent damage to ourselves without even realizing it, which precisely why people with leprosy tend to have damage limbs. If a child touched a hot stove and nothing told them to yank their hand back, then they could easily cause severe burns, so it is a gift to give us the ability to feel pain.


    One way of thinking about it is like a video game. Every time that someone plays through the game I can predict certain plot points with perfect accuracy, yet in between those plot points someone can make any number of decisions such that no two times that they play through the game are exactly the same, so free will and divine foreknowledge can coexist.


    This is more hypocrisy than a contradiction, and the Bible speaks against hypocrisy.



    Moral ontology is not the same as moral epistemology, so the issue of whether objective morality exists is different from the issue of how we can understand what those morals are. Every form of communication involves interpretation and this in no way contradicts the idea that God is the source of morality.


    This isn't a contradiction. Having the power to do something and the will to do it are two different issues.


    A hammer is a very useful tool, but if someone is trying to cut a steel cable, then it is simply the wrong tool for the job. Science is likewise a very useful tool, but it can only tell us information about things that is observable, measurable, and verifiable, but for other things it is simply the wrong tool for the job. For example, science can tell us all about the the observable effects of gravity, but it can't tell us why there is gravity. Science itself is based on assumptions that can't be demonstrated to be true by science, such as that the future will be like the past. Someone who is trying to use science to explain everything in the universe is like someone who is trying to cut a steel cable with a hammer. I'm not sure what inconsistencies in highly specialized scientific disciples has to do with this.



    It is not possible to form a belief without any evidence indicating it to be true and if there were no evidence for something then there would be no one who believed it to be true.


    Not all religious beliefs are created equal.



    It is demonstrably true that there are atheists who cherry-pick Scripture to make it look bad. Not sure how this is a contradiction.


    The vast majority of the large number of denominations has to do with local autonomy rather than with differences in doctrine, which is not to say that differences in doctrine don't exist. However, the fact that there are difference in doctrine does not mean that all interpretations are created equal. People who have gone to Seminary to learn hermeneutical methods of interpretation or who have studied the Bible for most of their lives are going to be more skilled at correctly interpreting the Bible than an atheist who has not studied it, and the same goes for any field of study. For example, reading an anonymous article on the Internet about medicine does not give someone the same expert opinion as a doctor even though doctors have many differing opinions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  16. quatona

    quatona "God"? What do you mean??

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    So you call it a contradiction before you heard the answer to your question?
     
  17. Foxfyre

    Foxfyre Well-Known Member Supporter

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    First, my question was inappropriate from the get go and I have already done my mea culpa (and extended apology) for characterizing the member who started the thread as a non-believer. He isn't or at least has not characterized himself as one.

    But had he been a non believer. . .

    It always seems a contradiction to me, i.e. inconsistent elements are present, when professed non believers spend so much time and effort participating in matters of belief.

    For instance, if I start a thread on the paranormal or extraterrestrial sightings or some such, I may not necessarily be a believer, but neither am I an non believer. I approach such topics with an open mind for all possibilities. I am not about to categorically state such things are purely a human invention. I am seriously curious and interested in such things and whether they exist and/or what they actually are.

    If I was an unbeliever, I can't imagine spending much, if any, time or effort on such topics. So the contradiction is a professed nonbeliever having so much interest in the topic.
     
  18. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    S9:..."Accusing A-theists of cherry-picking Scripture (OUT OF CONTEXT) to make it (Scripture) look bad...."

    A9:...NOT "Accusing", accurately DEMONSTRATING.
    To attack God, A-theists continually attack the Bible...the "word of God".

    SPIRIT-LED INTERPRETATION:

    How to Interpret the Bible | carm ....RULES!

    4. What is the immediate CONTEXT?
    5. What is the broader CONTEXT in the chapter and book?


    http://bible-interpretation.com/chapter-1/
     
  19. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    I've seen that once. Literally once. An atheist made a video about how someone was killed because he mispronounced a word. Left out the fact that his pronunciation revealed that he was from an enemy land.

    But the guy had a thick European accent, so it's possible he misread something.

    Generally, we don't need to take the Bible out of context to make it look bad because it handles that for us all on its own. You can't go 5 straight verses in Deuteronomy without stumbling across a major human rights violation.
     
  20. TBDude65

    TBDude65 Fossil Finder (TM)

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    Sometimes it is because we hope to find people who were like we once were. Someone who, if they hear an alternate opinion to their own, will start to think for themselves if pressed.

    And sometimes we do it in order to pursue our own opinions more fully. It helps me to figure out my own views and opinions when I am in a setting that challenges me to better articulate my positions to those who will be critical of it by default.

    To the point of the OP: contradictions such as these pushed me to start my own questioning of my religious beliefs. It took a few years but that eventually led me to realize I was an atheist.
     
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