Tear out your eyes

[Chris†opher Paul]

Ok, if OSAS is true, then why would our Lord say to tear out your eyes if they cause you to sin, since it is better to be blind than to go to Hell.

If you think this applies only to non-saved people, why? Does He say that?

 

[Blackhawk]

Originally posted by s0uljah
Ok, if OSAS is true, then why would our Lord say to tear out your eyes if they cause you to sin, since it is better to be blind than to go to Hell.

If you think this applies only to non-saved people, why? Does He say that?

Well would you not say that whether we are saved or not our goal should be to obey God and not sin as much as possible. Jesus said if you loved Him that you should obey Him and the His commandments. So we should not sin no matter if we have eternal security or not.

So since it is better not to sin and if our eyes causes us to sin then it is better to get rid of an eye then sin. Now this of course was an analogy and no one is really meant to tear out their eye but youget my drift.

I wil even say if tearing out your eye would make it so you would not sin (it doesn't) then it would be better to do it then continue in sin.

But what Jesus was getting at was how bad sin is and that we should strive against it completely. That we should give up things in our life it it causs us to stumble.

For instance eating ice cream is something I like to do. However if I am an overweight it would be better to give it up than to keep on eating it. Okay it might not be the best example but it is one.

blackhawk

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

But my point is that OSAS logically implies that no matter how bad you screw up (we are human and will screw up), then it doesn't matter.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by s0uljah
But my point is that OSAS logically implies that no matter how bad you screw up (we are human and will screw up), then it doesn't matter.

OSAS does not imply that it "doesn't matter." What it implies is that your sinning is not an issue of losing your salvation. If anyone, whether they hold true to the doctrine of OSAS or not, ever says sinning "doesn't matter" then they have not come to a place in their walk that allows them to fully appreciate the magnitude of God's gift of salvation.

God bless.

 

[Blackhawk]

Originally posted by Reformationist


OSAS does not imply that it "doesn't matter." What it implies is that your sinning is not an issue of losing your salvation. If anyone, whether they hold true to the doctrine of OSAS or not, ever says sinning "doesn't matter" then they have not come to a place in their walk that allows them to fully appreciate the magnitude of God's gift of salvation.

God bless.

AMEN! and AMEN!

I would even go farther though and say that I would doubt someones salvaton if they said that any sin "doesn't matter."

but again AMEN!

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

How does it matter if they are already saved?

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by s0uljah
How does it matter if they are already saved?

Well, s0uljah, is the reason you don't sin because you are worried you will lose your salvation? Or is it because you desire to please God? Because if it's the latter, then it is irrelevent as to whether you will "lose" your salvation. And, as we can do nothing to merit our salvation then the concept that we can do something to lose that which we did nothing to gain is illogical. Our salvation was granted to us when we were dead in our trespasses. We were completely sinful. The Lord saved us when we could only sin, so sinning after receiving eternal life can't be a catlyst for losing it.

The Lord did not save us with the belief that we would no longer sin. He saved us knowing that we would sin.

So, to answer your question, it matters for the same reason that it matters for Christians who don't believe in OSAS. It is an offense against the Lord and since we love Him we desire not to commit that offense.

God bless.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

The Lord saved us when we could only sin

Why do you think this is the case?

 

[Blackhawk]

Originally posted by s0uljah


Why do you think this is the case?

Because of His marvelous mercy and grace.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by s0uljah
Why do you think this is the case?

Because that's what the Bible says:

Eph 2:4-7
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were DEAD IN TRESPASSES, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

God saved us when we were spiritually dead. Why did he do this? Is it because we seek after God and then He accepts us into His fold? No. "There is none who seeks after God" (Rom 3:11). Is it because there is some part of us that naturally has faith in Him? No. We were dead. He did it because "of His great love with which He loved us."

God bless.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by Reformationist


Because that's what the Bible says:

Eph 2:4-7
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were DEAD IN TRESPASSES, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

God saved us when we were spiritually dead. Why did he do this? Is it because we seek after God and then He accepts us into His fold? No. "There is none who seeks after God" (Rom 3:11). Is it because there is some part of us that naturally has faith in Him? No. We were dead. He did it because "of His great love with which He loved us."

God bless.

So Noah wasn't saved?

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by s0uljah


So Noah wasn't saved?

Okay. You obviously have a point to make with this question. Why don't you elaborate and I will address your question in it's context.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

I was wondering about your comment regarding that God saved us when we could only sin. Makes me think that Noah, and anyone pre-Christ, isn't saved.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by s0uljah
I was wondering about your comment regarding that God saved us when we could only sin. Makes me think that Noah, and anyone pre-Christ, isn't saved.

First, there is no such thing as "pre-Christ." Christ did not come into existence when He was born from the seed of a woman. God's plan was complete before anyone, before or after the sacrifice of the Son, was created. God's election unto salvation is also something that happened before man was created. Jesus' sacrifice was made manifest for all of God's elect regardless of which side of the Cross they are on.

You see, God is a just God. As His Law is righteous, there is a penalty for breaking that Law. Man could not pay that penalty because it wouldn't suffice. It had to be the death of a completely righteous man, in and of himself. This man's righteousness can not be the result of a sacrifice on the part of another. The only being to ever fulfill that requirement is God Himself made flesh, Jesus. So, Jesus became sin. He paid the price. He did not, however, pay the price for everyone who ever existed. You see, Jesus' death was substantial. It was effectual. It wasn't to merely "provide the opportunity" for salvation. Because if that's all it did, if it didn't actually spiritually change the hearts of some, God's elect, then the unrighteous nature of mankind would not have, in any way, profited from His death. They would all still be incapable of performing the righteous act of commiting their life to God. His death had to change something in us. Obviously not even everybody believes in Christ, or the power of His sacrifice. Some people never will. The reason they never will isn't because they're just stubborn. It's because they have not been "saved" from themselves, and their nature. They will continue to live according to the flesh. Those that Jesus' death did change, however, are radically changed. They recognize His authority in their lives, and try to be imitators of His righteousness. God gives us that desire and ability to actually do His Will and increases our faith in Him, and our love for Him.

The point is, it doesn't matter when a person was born, B.C or A.D, it was always the same sacrifice that was going to reconcile them to God. That sacrifice was His own, that of sacrificing His only begotten Son. Their own actions can't do it. Not saying a prayer, not being dunked in water (or sprinkled), not reading the Bible. All of those things, if done with the right motive, are the result of God already working His perfect Will in us by saving us from ourselves.

It's why we can find joy in whatever situation we encounter. We know that the goal of our faith is here, our salvation.

God bless.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Ok, not trying to be a pain, but you said:

They would all still be incapable of performing the righteous act of commiting their life to God.

If there is no pre-Christ, then how does this statement make sense?

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by s0uljah
Ok, not trying to be a pain, but you said:

If there is no pre-Christ, then how does this statement make sense?

First off, you're not being a pain. I'm not sure what exactly you are asking but I'll explain the statement. First, when I said that there is no "pre-Christ" I mean there is not a time before Christ existed. He has always existed.

As to the statement you quoted, all of the saints that lived prior to Jesus being born into this world were still regenerated by God's Will, not their actions. Noah was born fallen, just like everyone else. The difficulty in understanding comes about when you take something that is timeless, like God's righteousness and narrow it down to a specific event like the crucifixtion of Jesus. It was still God's Will that allowed all those under the covenant of works to do His Will. Their obedience to His Law is His doing. It is not, however, what reconciled them to God. Jesus' death did that. And, they didn't didn't regenerate their own heart from a state of spiritual death, to that of being "a heart after God." He had to do that for them.

Hope that helps. If not, ask again and I'll try to explain it again.

God bless.

 

[calvinist]

Dear All,

I'd just like to point out that salvation doesn't happen with a prayer, or a song, or a dance. It happened before the very foundations of the earth! Notice here in Ephesians 1:
"...just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love." Ephesians 1:4

Amen! We know that God has had a plan for us and all of mankind since before the very foundations of the earth. We also know that He is putting us on His workbench and He is chiseling us out to be the men and women of God to make us "holy and without blame before Him."
Delighting in God's Irrestible Grace,
Calvinist<><
"God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him." -John Piper

 

[LightBearer]

“Once Saved, Always Saved”? No. 
Take a look at the inspired warning of the disciple Jude. He wrote: “Beloved ones, though I was making every effort to write you about the salvation we hold in common, I found it necessary to write you to exhort you to put up a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones.” (Jude 3) Why did Jude write this? Because he knew that individual Christians could still lose the ‘salvation they hold in common.’ He went on to say: “I desire to remind you . . . that God, although he saved a people [the Israelites] out of the land of Egypt, afterwards destroyed those not showing faith.”  Jude 5.

Jude’s warning would be pointless if Christians did not face a danger similar to that of those Israelites. Jude was not questioning the value of Jesus’ sacrifice. That sacrifice has saved us from Adamic sin, and Jesus will protect those who exercise faith in him. No one can snatch them out of his hand. But we can lose that protection. How? By doing what was done by many Israelites who were saved from Egypt. We can deliberately choose to disobey. Deuteronomy 30:19, 20.

Imagine being rescued from a burning tower. Think of the relief you would feel as you were safely taken from the building and the rescuer said: “You are safe now.” Yes, you would have been saved from certain death. But what would happen if you decided to go back into the building for some foolish reason? Your life would again be in danger.

Christians are in a saved condition. They have the prospect of everlasting life because they are in an approved position before God . As a group, their salvation from Adamic sin and all its consequences is sure. But individually they will be saved to eternal life only if they continue to adhere to all of ’s requirements. Jesus emphasized this when he likened himself to a vine and his disciples to branches in that vine. He said: “Every branch in me not bearing fruit God takes away . . . If anyone does not remain in union with me, he is cast out as a branch and is dried up; and men gather those branches up and pitch them into the fire and they are burned.” (John 15:2, 6; Hebrews 6:4-6) Those losing faith in Jesus also lose everlasting life.

“He That Has Endured . . . Will Be Saved”
Yes, there are various things involved in getting saved. We must take in accurate knowledge of God’s purposes and his way of salvation. Then we must exercise faith in the Chief Agent of salvation, Jesus Christ, and do God’s will the rest of our lives. (John 3:16; Titus 2:14) Salvation is sure for those who follow this course. But it involves persevering right to the end of our present life or of this present world system. Only “he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.”—Matthew 24:13.

 

[DaveKerwin]

Romans 3: 1-8

What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God. What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written:
"So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge."
But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?" Why not say--as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say--"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved.

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I belive that once we are covered by the righteousness of God, we cannot become unrighteous. Once we have been washed by the blood of Christ, we can never again be unclean. With that, it would seem that we can just sin that that Grace may abound, but for those who do that, their condemnation is deserved.

I like the verse that says to gouge your eye out if it causes you to sin. God obviously wants us to follow him as christians. He doesn't want us to abuse his wonderful grace and mercy. Remember the law was not abolished, it was fulfilled. Many times Paul wrote about not abusing Grace.

To lighten things up a bit, I have this joke with some buddies of mine about the gouge your eye out thing. We were sitting at a restaurant one day when this really pretty woman walked by. With that verse in mind, I asked for a spoon after she walked by. When I was asked why I wanted a spoon, I said "to gouge my eye out." So now our little joke is to ask for a spoon when we see something that causes us to sin.

 

[eldermike]

we are born of Spirit, not by anything we have done or will do but by the grace of God and the sacrifice of Jesus on a cross. Perhaps Nichodemus should have asked: how can a man be unborn? You can't be-unborn of Spirit any more than flesh can be un-born.
Just as you can abuse your first physical birth, you can also abuse your Spiritual birth with the same results, you will be miserable. But, how can a man be un-born again? What God has made Holy by saving, he will make perfect, He promised that. We see the imperfect, God sees the perfect. In a moment of humility one can become sealed for ever and ever. The cross was full payment, it worked! Amen