Teaching: What is prophecy?

[AGTG]

This is a simple teaching I put together on the nature of this Spiritual gift and how it operates:

 

[quietbloke]

Could you print the text,' AGTG',as I can't play your video and tell us a little about who you are

 

[AGTG]

I'm going to have to find a copy of the original text to copy and paste it.

What would you like to know about me?

 

[quietbloke]

I'm going to have to find a copy of the original text to copy and paste it.

What would you like to know about me?

Thanks'AGTG'. I have now connected to your video and enjoyed your contribution.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread is being moved to the Spirit-filled/Charismatic at OP request

 

[ARBITER01]

It seems understanding of the gifts nowadays is not as exact with so many folks trying to teach on it. I'm not harping on anyone in the thread, just that too many folks with very little knowledge think they can write books on the subject and become authors of distiction.

Prophecy is two-fold in the body of Christ. I'll define them here as best as I can...

1) Corporate, where the body of Christ is built up.
2) Specific, where GOD uses an individual to speak to another believer one on one.

Corporate prophecy in the assembly revolves around 3 things, as Paul stated...

1Co 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

When a person is prompted to speak by The Holy Spirit in the assembly using the gift of prophecy, these three things will be prominent in the address. Same goes for when someone interprets a tongues message since it is considered equally as corporate prophecy. The message will not be addressed to any specific person there.

Specific prophecy on the other hand, revolves around the same use of the ruleset from Paul, but it is normally GOD exhorting an individual to greater strides with Him. It can edify, but it is based around some specifics that only that individual is already aware of. It's a confirmation to the believer of what GOD was already showing, teaching, and leading them by The Holy Spirit.

Notice I didn't say anything about predictive utterance? That's because I follow the teaching pattern given to Paul by The Holy Spirit. The gift of prophecy is constrained by those three definitions,..edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

The office of a prophet will have the ability to speak by GOD predicatively, but not a prophesier in the body of Christ, so if you see someone doing it, they are wrong (and I guarantee you, there are very few prophets in the body of Christ currently). It's an area that's very abused by fleshly Corinthian believers, where we as spiritually mature believers must follow precisely what our bible says and The Holy Spirit teaches us. If not, we can be easily led astray by wrong opinions and false teachings, by said Corinthian believers.

If GOD can't trust us to properly learn and use correctly those gifts He initially gives us, then how is He to trust us to properly follow Him and operate in His greater giftings? Short answer... He can't. So trust The Holy Spirit and pursue having Him teach you on these things. Make Him your authority, not men, and the scriptures will mean more.

I won't enter into big discussions over this topic because it brings out the worst in people on here for some reason. I decided to post this and share some of what GOD taught me in His word and by specific experiences to confirm it. If you can't find agreement on this with me, fine by me, go trust a scholar.

 

[Biblicist]

1. Same goes for when someone interprets a tongues message since it is considered equally as corporate prophecy.
2. It's an area that's very abused by fleshly Corinthian believers, where we as spiritually mature believers must follow precisely what our bible says . . .

I was wondering how your first point squares up with your second as the Scriptures do not tell us that tongues + interpretation = prophecy, where in fact, Paul says that when the Holy Spirit speaks through us, that his words are always directed toward God and never to man.

Could you maybe provide some Scriptural support for tongues and interpretation being used to speak to a congregation and most importantly are there any examples of this as well.

 

[ARBITER01]

I was wondering how your first point squares up with your second as the Scriptures do not tell us that tongues + interpretation = prophecy, where in fact, Paul says that when the Holy Spirit speaks through us, that his words are always directed toward God and never to man.

Could you maybe provide some Scriptural support for tongues and interpretation being used to speak to a congregation and most importantly are there any examples of this as well.

Biblicist, I like you and all, but we've already been down this road before.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

To prophesy simply means to speak forth from a spiritual source.
Within the context of the spirituals gifts, it couples with word of wisdom and word of knowledge.
There is no predictive element in simple prophesy, which serves to comfort, exhort, and edify.
Only with the word of wisdom does the predictive element enter into the manifestation.

All Christians can manifest prophesying. We can all prophesy one by one. We can all speak to the edification, comfort, and exhortation. And we all should!

 

[Biblicist]

To prophesy simply means to speak forth from a spiritual source.
Within the context of the spirituals gifts, it couples with word of wisdom and word of knowledge.
There is no predictive element in simple prophesy, which serves to comfort, exhort, and edify.
Only with the word of wisdom does the predictive element enter into the manifestation.

All Christians can manifest prophesying. We can all prophesy one by one. We can all speak to the edification, comfort, and exhortation. And we all should!

???

 

[AGTG]

To prophesy simply means to speak forth from a spiritual source.
Within the context of the spirituals gifts, it couples with word of wisdom and word of knowledge.
There is no predictive element in simple prophesy, which serves to comfort, exhort, and edify.
Only with the word of wisdom does the predictive element enter into the manifestation.

All Christians can manifest prophesying. We can all prophesy one by one. We can all speak to the edification, comfort, and exhortation. And we all should!

Are you suggesting that prophesying isn't a manifestation of the Holy Spirit to/through a believer, but that a believer's "spirit" speaks to another believer's spirit supernaturally?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Are you suggesting that prophesying isn't a manifestation of the Holy Spirit to/through a believer, but that a believer's "spirit" speaks to another believer's spirit supernaturally?

Not supernaturally... merely spiritually. The spirit of Christ that has been born into each of us can be the source of prophecy. 1 Corin 14 is speaking of prophesying forth from the spirit of Christ in us.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

MYTH 1 > Prophesying is predicting the future.


Simple prophecy is merely "speaking forth". Prophecy can be the vehicle or medium whereby spiritual gifts are manifest. Word of Wisdom (knowledge about the plans, purposes of God that could not be discovered by natural means), Word of Knowledge (knowledge about temporal reality that could be and is known by natural means), and other gifts can and do use prophecy as the delivery vehicle.


MYTH 2 > Only certain people can prophesy.


Everyone can and do prophesy. If we understand that prophecy is the simple act of "speaking forth", then we see the reality of this.

Robertson:
Prophecy (prophe¯teia). Late word from prophe¯te¯s and prophe¯mi, to speak forth.


Look at some people who prophesied and the source of their utterance:

1. Saul prophesied with the utterance of an evil spirit.

1Sam 18: (KJS)
10. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and [there was] a javelin in Saul's hand.


We do not want this!



2.It is possible for an unregenerate man to speak forth from his own spirit.

Jere 23:26
How long shall [this] be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, [they are] prophets of the deceit of their own heart;

This is only possible in unregenerates. Regenerates do not have deceit in their own heart. Their heart is the spirit of Christ and there is no sin in it. See #5 in this list.

3. Men can speak forth from their own souls (mind will emotion).

Isaiah 30:10
Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

Psal 103:1 (KJS)
[A Psalm] of David. Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, [bless] his holy name.

Psal 103:2 (KJS)
Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:

Many times in the psalms David speaks to his soul (mind) and tells it to bless the Lord, O my soul". Paul said that he will pray in the spirit and pray with the "understanding also". This is the spirit using the information in the soul/mind.

Great care should be taken when doing this. I suspect that 90% of what we call prophecy in modern times is actually from the soul.


4. Man can prophesy forth from the Spirit of God.

This is the gift of prophecy as listed in 1 Corin 12. Not all believers have this or any other gift. This gift only manifest through those who the Holy Spirit has enabled.

1 Corinthians 12:10 (KJS)
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:


5. Finally, man can prophesy forth from the spirit of Christ that has been born again into him.

Colo 3:16 (KJS)
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

1 Corinthians 14:31
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

1 Corinthians 14:5
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye (all) prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1 Corinthians 14:3 (ASV)
But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men edification, and exhortation, and consolation.

2 Corinthians 13:3
Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you.


MYTH 3 > If you prophesy then you are a prophet.

Many people prophesy. Many think they are prophets because of this. Prophecy is a manifestation. A prophet is an office that one is placed into by Christ. We can all prophecy. We are not all prophets.

1 Corinthians 14:31
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

MYTH 4 > All prophecy is from the Holy Spirit.

See Myth 2 above: "Only certain people can prophesy". Prophecy is the simple act of "speaking forth". The source of that information can be any of the 5 sources listed in Myth 2.


MYTH 5 > All prophecy has divine attribution.

"Divine attribution" means you can attribute the message to God. "Thus says the Lord", or speaking in the first person ("I am the Lord that heals you") are both methods of divine attribution. When a person with the Holy Spirit enabled gift of Prophecy manifests that gift, they may use divine attribution. When using simple prophecy from the spirit of Christ in us all, then you may only use divine attribution when you are using scripture to edify, comfort, or exhort.

MYTH 6 > Your mind has no part in prophesying.

In 1 Corinthians 14 Paul plainly contrasts praying with the spirit and praying with the understanding. Praying with the spirit is praying in tongues. Praying with the understanding means prophetic praying with your mind.

1 Corinthians 14:14
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

The concept being presented here is commonly taught to mean that your mind is not understanding the message. Yet this is incorrect. He is saying that there are two sources from which you can bare fruit. One is your mind the other is the spirit. When you pray in tongues your spirit is being fruitful. But you pray with your understanding: you mind is being fruitful. IOWs you mind is the source of the prayer.

In this verse, the thing being fruitful is the source of the prayer. He is plainly saying that when you pray in tongues, your spirit is the source: but when you prophesy, it is your mind that is baring fruit. He goes on to expand upon this concept:

1 Corinthians 14:15
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Paul is not contrasting tongues and natural speech from the mind. He is contrasting tongues and prophesying. These verses show that the mind has a part in prophesying.


MYTH 7 > Women should never prophesy.

Act 2:17
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Act 21:9
9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.

1 Corinthians 11:5
5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.


MYTH 8 > Prophesying is always delivered in a language that can be understood by the speaker.

It is evident from Acts 2 that there is a form of prophesying where the speaker does not understand what he is saying, but the hearer does understand what is being said.

This form of prophesying is closely resembles tongues and is often mistaken for tongues.

First we must establish that tongues is never understood by men:

1 Corinthians 14:2
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Next we establish that all tongues need to be interpreted:

1 Corinthians 14:27
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

Therefore, if a message is given that is understood by men, it is not tongues. It is prophecy. The proof of this is in Acts two.

Act 2:4
4 And they were all filled of the Holy Spirit, and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave ability to them to speak.

Act 2:6
6 But this sound occurring, the multitude came together and were confounded, because they each heard them speaking in his own dialect.

Here we see the disciples speaking in languages that are understood by others who are standing by. Because the languages were understood by men and because the message needed no interpretation, they could not be tongues in the sense of 1 Cor 14.

Peter confirms this by quoting Joel 2 and states that "this is that" (the speaking) is prophesying:

Act 2:16-18
16 But this is that which has been spoken by the prophet Joel,
17 "And it shall be" in the last days, God says, "I will pour from My Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy;" "and your young men shall see visions," "and your old men shall dream dreams;"
18 "and also I will pour out My Spirit on My slaves and slave women in those days," and they shall prophesy.

It it evident that tongues and prophesying in language unknown to the speaker look very similar, yet the two rules established above clearly prove that the Acts 2 event was in fact prophesying.

It is common to manifest both prophesying and speaking in tongues at the same time:

Act 19:6
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Peter when seeing the gentiles receive the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues said that they received the Holy Ghost in the same way the Jews did in Acts 2:

Act 10:46-47
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said,
47 "No one can stop us from using water to baptize these people who have received the Holy Spirit in the same way that we did, can he?"

Myth 9 > God Guides His People With "Personal Prophecy".

So called "personal prophecy" as practiced by many today is abused and misused by many.

The simple prophetic gift should only be used to comfort, edify, and exhort. It should never be used to Command, Control, or Condemn. Occasionally God may call a prophet or other minister to issue last resort warnings to disobedient and rebellious people. But the primary method that God desires to lead His children is by the still small voice of the heart. Prophecy should never be used to tell you who to date or marry, where to work or go to school, where to life, or any of the other such issues of life.


Myth 10 > You Cannot Learn How to Prophesy.

1 Corinthians 14:31
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

This verse in could easily be read another way.

"For you all may prophesy one by one that all by learn (by practice) how to prophesy..."

Indeed Thayer's definition of the word "learn" would seem to support the idea of learning how to prophesy by practice:

Thayer Definition:
1) to learn, be appraised
1a) to increase one’s knowledge, to be increased in knowledge
1b) to hear, be informed
1c) to learn by use and practice
1c1) to be in the habit of, accustomed to

And Vines:

"...to learn by use and practice, to acquire the habit of, be accustomed to..."

In the OT we see members of the family of Ashph prophesied at the order (or direction) of King David

1 Ch 25:1-2
1 Moreover David and the captains of the host separated to the service of the sons of Asaph, and of Heman, and of Jeduthun, who should prophesy with harps, with psalteries, and with cymbals: and the number of the workmen according to their service was:
2 Of the sons of Asaph; Zaccur, and Joseph, and Nethaniah, and Asarelah, the sons of Asaph under the hands of Asaph, which prophesied according to the order of the king.


It is likely that David (who wrote The Book of Pslams) directed (or "taught") these men how to prophesy.

In Amos 3:8 we see that prophesying should as natural as being afraid of a lion's roar.

Amo 3:7-8
7 Certainly, the Almighty LORD doesn't do anything unless he first reveals his secret to his servants the prophets.
8 The lion has roared. Who isn't afraid? The Almighty LORD has spoken. Who can keep from prophesying?

The question is not "How can I prophesy?" the question is "How come you are not?"

If you do not know how to prophesy, you should learn! All you need is "direction". Like Job's friend we say:

Job 32:8-20
8 But there is a spirit in man, and the breath of the Almighty gives them understanding.
...
17 I also will answer my part, and I also will show my opinion.
18 For I am full of words. The spirit within me constrains me.
19 Behold, my breast is as wine which has no vent; like new wineskins it is ready to burst.
20 I will speak, that I may be refreshed. I will open my lips and answer.

Myth 11 > Love is better than prophesying or any other gift of the Spirit.

Many have taken 1 Cor 12:31 to mean that love is "the better way" than the gifts. One need only read the context of the passage to see the real meaning.

1 Corinthians 12:31
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

I ask you to read this verse without preconceived ideas. I would ask you a question:

Q - He is going to show them a better way to do what?
A - A better way (than coveting) to get the best gifts to manifest.

As RWP states:
RWP - And a still more excellent way (kai eti kaq uperbolhn odon). In order to gain the greater gifts.

And Vincent concurs:
VWS - Way
To attain the higher gifts.

He is not saying that love is better than gifts. He is saying that love is better than coveting to get the better gifts.

Myth 12 > Prophesying will be done away.

Once again, people do not need to learn doctrine as much as they just need to read:

1 Corinthians 13:8-11
8 Charity never falleth away: whether prophecies shall be made void or tongues shall cease or knowledge shall be destroyed.
9 For we know in part: and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But, when I became a man, I put away the things of a child.

The best way to understand this is from his explanation in verse 11. A child will behave in an immature way. He will try to walk but constantly fall down. He will attempt to speak, but do so in a baby like manner. BUT: When the child becomes a man all the falling down and baby talk will cease. HE DOES NOT CEASE TO WALK AND TALK. He only ceases to do it in an immature manner. The "partial" aspect disappears when the full arrives. The immaturity ceases... not the ability.

The ISV shows this much better:

1 Corinthians 13:11
11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, thought like a child, and reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up my childish ways.

And the PNT explains it well:

"...When I was a child. In these verses the change he has declared will take place is illustrated by the change from childhood to manhood. The speech, thoughts and feelings of the child give way to those of the man. So it will be when the church moves on from childhood to full development...

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Sorry AGTG... I noticed this is a teaching threat. I will remove my posts if you so desire.
Dids.

 

[AGTG]

No, it's fine Dids, but I don't agree with much of what you say as the ideas are exotic and require much examination through the lens of scripture.

We've talked before on here, I believe. Are you C. Alan?

 

[AGTG]

What I think you may be trying to express is the difference between "speaking life" and "prophesying."

The Proverbs teach that death and life are in the tongue, meaning we have the ability to to use our spiritual authority in ways that bring forth good or bad (in people or situations). This, as far as I can tell, is in no way a manifestation of the Holy Spirit.