Teaching of Raymond Pastor Ray McMahon on divorce and remarriage

[Carl Emerson]

Is anyone familiar with this guy ??? I'm being told that if I don't repent of remarrying I will loose my salvation...

Comments on this presentation appreciated.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3927947493908035

 

[pescador]

Is anyone familiar with this guy ??? I'm being told that if I don't repent of remarrying I will loose my salvation...

Comments on this presentation appreciated.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3927947493908035

a) Thankfully, I never heard of this guy.
b) "I'm being told that if I don't repent of remarrying I will loose my salvation..." Well that is just nonsense. It is unscriptural! Mark 12:18-24, "Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) also came to him and asked him, “Teacher, Moses wrote for us: ‘If a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, that man must marry the widow and father children for his brother.’ There were seven brothers. The first one married, and when he died he had no children. The second married her and died without any children, and likewise the third. None of the seven had children. Finally, the woman died too. In the resurrection, when they rise again, whose wife will she be? For all seven had married her. Jesus said to them, “Aren’t you deceived for this reason, because you don’t know the scriptures or the power of God?”

Notice that Jesus did not say that the brothers were all going to hell or something of that nature. Carl, don't let your life be ruined by some self-righteous "TV evangelist".

 

[Carl Emerson]

a) Thankfully, I never heard of this guy.
b) "I'm being told that if I don't repent of remarrying I will loose my salvation..." Well that is just nonsense. It is unscriptural! Mark 12:18-24, "Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) also came to him and asked him, “Teacher, Moses wrote for us: ‘If a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, that man must marry the widow and father children for his brother.’ There were seven brothers. The first one married, and when he died he had no children. The second married her and died without any children, and likewise the third. None of the seven had children. Finally, the woman died too. In the resurrection, when they rise again, whose wife will she be? For all seven had married her. Jesus said to them, “Aren’t you deceived for this reason, because you don’t know the scriptures or the power of God?”

Notice that Jesus did not say that the brothers were all going to hell or something of that nature. Carl, don't let your life be ruined by some self-righteous "TV evangelist".

Thank for your response...

This issue is wrecking many friendships among Christians over here.

The scripture you refer to is about marrying a widow which is allowed.

The common practice of marrying as a divorcee (second marriage) is being condemned to the extent that if you don't repent of doing so - you lose your salvation.
This is being seen as a prime reason for the modern church being weak... as it is supposedly full of adulterers.

 

[SilverBear]

Forgive me but it sounds as if you are saying you don't like other people telling you that you aren't living up to God's standards

 

[GospelS]

@Carl Emerson

2 Corinthians 5:16-18
1 Corinthians 4:3-5

If anyone is in Christ, I would consider that he/she is a (spiritual) widow if they were divorced. You know your work, the measure of faith and grace given to you. Let no one judge you according to the flesh.

 

[Palmfever]

Christ was saying something Paul re-iterated. 1st Cor, 7:39. The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

This is what Christ said.

Mark, 10:6. But from the beginning of creation, God created them male and female. 7 For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother[a], 8 and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore, what God has joined together, no person is to separate.”

And again.

Luke, 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

Mat, 19:8

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
Some will try to justify re-marriage with this. Nope, No place does it say get marriaged again, it's cool, I didn't really mean what I said earlier.


Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?”

3 “What did Moses command you?” he replied.

4 They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.”

5 “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied. 6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8 and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”

Anyone who wiggles around scripture with this is arguing with God, not I. Tough call I know, I’m divorced and would love a lover companion, friend. But I can obey and live without. Life is short.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Forgive me but it sounds as if you are saying you don't like other people telling you that you aren't living up to God's standards

I forgive you.

What I don't like is drawing believers into legalism...

 

[Carl Emerson]

@Carl Emerson

2 Corinthians 5:16-18
1 Corinthians 4:3-5

If anyone is in Christ, I would consider that he/she is a (spiritual) widow if they were divorced. You know your work, the measure of faith and grace given to you. Let no one judge you according to the flesh.

Yes, that is my position...

Appreciate your response.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Christ was saying something Paul re-iterated. 1st Cor, 7:39. The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

This is what Christ said.

Mark, 10:6. But from the beginning of creation, God created them male and female. 7 For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother[a], 8 and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore, what God has joined together, no person is to separate.”

And again.

Luke, 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

Mat, 19:8

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
Some will try to justify re-marriage with this. Nope, No place does it say get marriaged again, it's cool, I didn't really mean what I said earlier.


Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?”

3 “What did Moses command you?” he replied.

4 They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.”

5 “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied. 6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8 and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”

Anyone who wiggles around scripture with this is arguing with God, not I. Tough call I know, I’m divorced and would love a lover companion, friend. But I can obey and live without. Life is short.

I don't mind tough calls if they reflect the heart of Jesus...

Your thesis is not the final word on the issue.

 

[GTW27]

"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God I thank thee that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, I give tithes of all that I get.' But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God be merciful to me a sinner!' I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."
Pay them no mind Carl, friends will be lost, that is part of the cost(it will cost you everything) but what you have, you can not lose, for it is eternal, as He is eternal.

 

[Palmfever]

Of course my word means little. That's why I used Gods.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but having itching ears, they shall heap to themselves teachers in accordance with their own lusts.

Later

 

[Carl Emerson]

That's why I used Gods.

Its how you use God's that is the issue.

 

[Sketcher]

Not familiar with him. I lean towards eternal security myself, but it still requires repentance for our sins. I have no wishes to marry a divorced woman. Whatever repentance of that would have to look like, I don't want to have to go through it.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Not familiar with him. I lean towards eternal security myself, but it still requires repentance for our sins. I have no wishes to marry a divorced woman. Whatever repentance of that would have to look like, I don't want to have to go through it.

Even if the divorced woman was not the instigator of the divorce and was deserted by an unfaithful partner?

 

[Isilwen]

Even if the divorced woman was not the instigator of the divorce a was deserted by an unfaithful partner?

As far as I am aware, you're clear. I have mentioned my story on here a few times in defense of remarriage, but have met the same all as you from some people.

I was divorced by my wife and only participated in the divorce to make sure that I got to see my kids and that the proceedings were fair across the board for both parties. She divorced me because I couldn't make her happy. We would argue quite a bit over many different things and there were times where she became physical. She slapped me hard across the face on two different occasions and had her hands around my throat on a third.

When we separated because she told me she was filing for divorce, within two months I was off my depression medications. My depression cleared that quick.

I do believe that there are marriages that are blessed by God and marriages that aren't. We were coerced into this marriage by several pastors saying that we are meant to get married. Because of that, we ignored the red flags that were certainly showing before we got married. We met eight months before we were married. About 4 months in is when the fighting started and it never stopped after we got married.

Fast forward to today, and she is with someone who still doesn't make her happy. Me? I am in the best relationship of my life. This time I prayed for God to bring me who he has for me, and she did the same and three days later we started talking. Her ex-husband continually cheated on her and told her he will never stop. So she divorced him.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

In the Orthodox church, one can only get married 3 times at most. In fact the wedding services are different. The first one is filled with joy and happiness. Numbers 2 & 3 have a much more somber tone to them. For example, one prayer reads,

O Lord Jesus Christ, Word of God, who wast lifted up upon the precious and life-giving Cross, and didst thereby tear up the handwriting against us, and didst deliver us from the violence of the devil: Do thou cleanse the transgressions of thy servants, for, unable to bear the burden of the day and the burning of the flesh, they have come to a second communion of marriage, in accordance with that which thou hast lawfully appointed by thy chosen vessel, Paul the Apostle, saying, because of our humble state, “It is better to marry in the Lord than to burn.”​

 

[pescador]

Thank for your response...

This issue is wrecking many friendships among Christians over here.

The scripture you refer to is about marrying a widow which is allowed.

The common practice of marrying as a divorcee (second marriage) is being condemned to the extent that if you don't repent of doing so - you lose your salvation.
This is being seen as a prime reason for the modern church being weak... as it is supposedly full of adulterers.

"Supposedly" doesn't sound true to me. The churches I have attended throughout the years have been filled with all kinds of people. I wonder how many people in those churches are nasty, self-righteous, judgmental, etc. who are quick to condemn others while inflating their own importance/innocence. We are told to love our neighbors, not judge them under the law.

 

[Sketcher]

Even if the divorced woman was not the instigator of the divorce a was deserted by an unfaithful partner?

Given what Jesus said in Matthew 5:32, I don't want to gamble with that.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Given what Jesus said in Matthew 5:32, I don't want to gamble with that.

So... 'go and sin no more' does not apply?

 

[Sketcher]

So... 'go and sin no more' does not apply?

That applies, but what that means for the circumstance might be hard instead of easy.

For the woman caught in adultery, that would have meant either returning to her husband if he would take her, or remaining single and celibate.

For someone who failed to live up to a contract, that would mean still being bound by that contract according to its terms.

For someone who stole from a store, that would mean returning the item or the monetary value of the item if it was consumed and cannot be returned.

And so forth.