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Teach Them to Be Keeping ALL.

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by HARK!, Jul 5, 2022.

  1. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Therefore all has not been fulfilled.
     
  2. HIM

    HIM Friend CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    Whatever I direct you?
    This implies what to you Hark?
     
  3. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    That he is my Master.
     
  4. HIM

    HIM Friend CF Ambassadors Supporter

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    Amen. Why the difference in the translation though. I like the the CLV always have. But there I wonder if they chose correctly
     
  5. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    The CLV is a very good literal translation; but I have caught mistakes.

    Which part of the translation do you question?
     
  6. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    We need to look at verse 23:1 in context.

    (CLV) Dt 23:1
    Not one emasculated by crushing or having his penis cut off shall come into the assembly of Yahweh.

    (CLV) Dt 23:2
    Not bastard shall come into the assembly of Yahweh. Even the tenth generation ›from him may not come into the assembly of Yahweh.

    (CLV) Dt 23:3
    No Ammonite or Moabite shall come into the assembly of Yahweh. Even the tenth generation from them shall not come into the assembly of Yahweh for the eon,

    Notice that this command pertains to an interval. Why would that be?


    (CLV) Dt 23:4
    on the score that they did not succor you with bread and with water along the main road when you came forth from Egypt and that they hired against you Balaam son of Beor, from Pethor, Aram-naharaim, to maledict you.

    It pertains to an interval in relationship with Moses leaving Egypt.

    Let's look a little deeper.

    This is what YHWH tells Isaiah:

    (CLV) Isa 56:3
    Let not the son of the foreigner say, The proselyte who has joined himself to Yahweh, saying: Yahweh shall separate, yea separate me from on His people; And let not the eunuch say: Behold, I am a dry tree.

    (CLV) Isa 56:4
    For thus says Yahweh: To the eunuchs who are keeping My sabbaths, And who choose that in which I delight, And are holding fast to My covenant,

    (CLV) Isa 56:5
    I will give to them, in My house and within My walls, hand and name; Better than sons and daughters, I shall give to them a name eonian which shall not be cut off.

    So was the Torah abolished during the time of Isaiah? Was the Torah abolished before Yahshua walked the earth? If this is so; what is this covenant that YHWH speaks of in verse 56:4? Did YHWH make a new lawless covenant with Isaiah? If this is so; why was Yahshua's ministry a ministry of repentance?
     
  7. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    .
     
  8. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Sacrifice was never a substitution for repentance; and it is not to this day.

    (CLV) Hb 10:26
    For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

    (CLV) Hb 10:27
    but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile.

    (CLV) Hb 10:28
    Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

    (CLV) Hb 10:29
    Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?

    These are very sobering verses.
     
  9. Leaf473

    Leaf473 Well-Known Member

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    Hi @HARK! and everybody,

    I had some difficulty accessing the site Friday and Saturday. Maybe everybody did.

    Sundays are usually busy for me with church and family stuff.

    I hope to pick up our discussion on Monday with renewed vim and vigor. Or at least vim.
     
  10. daq

    daq Messianic

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    When you get a chance, HARK, you should watch this presentation by Nehemia Gordon of the Hebrew (Shem Tov) version of Matthew 5:19.

    Video Description: (Run Time 44:43)
    Hebrew Gospel Pearls - Matthew 5:19
     
  11. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I Thank our Savior for fulling the Law so that we don't have to worry if we are fit to enter the assembly or do any of the old covenant ritual rules. Everyone and that includes the Ammonites and Moabites are welcome to congregate and worship God anytime.

    Yes, Jesus fulfilled every aspect of what He came to do. Now we patiently await His return. Come Lord Jesus.
     
  12. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Makes sense. That rendering would better align with verse 20.

    Did you watch the "+" episode? I didn't see a link for it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2022
  13. expos4ever

    expos4ever Well-Known Member

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    Some of them are rather clearly in the past. The Law of Moses, for example:

    But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the Law, being confined for the faith that was destined to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our guardian to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

    Despite the desperate histrionics we see, and no doubt will continue to see, this is a clear, unambiguous declaration that the Law of Moses is behind us.
     
  14. expos4ever

    expos4ever Well-Known Member

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    You could use this line of reasoning to undermine all use of metaphor in scripture - clearly not a workable position.

    We have been through this over and over. There is clear scriptural precedent for the use of "cosmic end-of-the-word" imagery to refer to events in the here-and-now. And some of those events have indeed already occurred. Not to mention the fact that in extra-Biblical Jewish writings, we see the very same pattern - use of such language as a metaphor for socio-political change in the here and now.

    It appears that, in the face of such compelling evidence, all the naysayers can do is effectively to insist that all Biblical texts are to be taken literally. Let the reader judge how tenable that is.
     
  15. daq

    daq Messianic

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    Paul makes a similar statement in 1 Corinthians 3:17 without mention of the Torah, (but it is clearly related to lawlessness).

    No, I did not, it's posted on the Nehemia's Wall website along with that video, (Another Jesus? - Hebrew Gospel Pearls - NehemiasWall.com), but one must become a subscriber to watch the plus videos. From what was said in the video I posted, near the end, I gather that the information he found, which is in the plus video, is probably even much more compelling.
     
  16. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Present perfect tense

    No
     
  17. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    I didn't realize that. No wonder.
     
  18. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    You could also use that line of reasoning to undermine every word of YHWH.
     
  19. HARK!

    HARK! שמע Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    What is faith?

    I'm not talking about some abstract Greek Philosophical notion of what it might mean in the imagination.

    I'm talking about in the concrete Hebrew mindset.

    Let's take Paul's words, he who is not our Messiah, and harmonize them with the words of Messiah. Messiah's words are YHWH's words.
     
  20. Leaf473

    Leaf473 Well-Known Member

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    True! But... When Jesus says Till all should be occurring, does he mean every single possible thing, or just all those things related to Torah and Heaven and Earth passing by?

    Similar to the way someone who's preparing dinner might say Everything's ready.

    If Jesus means every possible thing, that's basically saying that the law will never change. In that case, it would make more sense to say One iota or one serif will never be passing by from the law. Unless, of course, Jesus is being intentionally cryptic.
     
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