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Featured talking about suicide

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by Goodbook, Nov 23, 2016.

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  1. Goodbook

    Goodbook Reading the Bible

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    This thread is not for the faint hearted or those who've never had this experience of losing someone to suicide. Whether it's a family member or someone you know.

    What biblical advice would you give to people who are facing situations like this that you've learned gives hope for people feeling this way.

    One of my friends lost her second cousin, he took his life, and she'd lost her brother only three years ago in a tragedy. How do you get through a loss like this.

    I did not know her family, the deceased was only 25 and it seemed like he was one of those lost boys. Without God. He had a brother and a sister. The parents are taking it hard. At the funeral, the preacher or celebrant said if you feeling like this tell someone, apparently none of his friends or family really knew what turmoil he was going through.
    How can you prevent suicide. Is it a curse? Is it glorified in today's culture for the young?

    What can christians do apart from praying of course, to stop others from following this road. What tools can we show young people. To not give up. High expectations seem to be a contributing cause, not knowing there's hope and that you don't have to do everything yourself cos Jesus is there is another. Anything else?
     
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  2. Goodbook

    Goodbook Reading the Bible

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    For the record have counselled two people who said to me they were feeling suicidal. Often they just needed to talk and to have someone pray for them. (I am not a trained counsellor though, God just sent me these people who needed someone there for them).

    What other things can people do. What effective warfare prayers can we pray? People do need to change their way of life and not depend on themselves (self sufficiency and pride can contribute) but on the one who loves us.

    many people affected by suicide say its a selfish thing to do, and it is when you think of it, leaving a mess for someone else to clean up. For this boy in question, his flatmates found him. It was traumatic.
     
  3. rockytopva

    rockytopva Love to pray! :) Supporter

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    If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

    Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

    And there are three varieties...

    Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
    Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
    Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

    Any kind of faith, hope, charity, warmth, love, is of great help and will inspire life and light from the clutches of darkness. On my Youtube site I try to encourage all of the above...

    https://www.youtube.com/rockytopva
     
  4. Godlovesmetwo

    Godlovesmetwo Fringe Catholic

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    I started a similar thread on Ethics and Morality in another sub-forum.
    Some posters with hardcore experience themselves or someone close, say it can be almost impossible to stop for those clinically depressed . That we should avoid oversimplifying the issue. That Christian advice can be very insensitive and unhelpful.
    I suggested that suicidal people would refrain from suiciding, if they could see the damage it leaves behind to their loved ones. But in retrospect, I see that was naïve because most are not in the frame of mind to be empathic to others.
     
  5. Galatea

    Galatea Well-Known Member

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    First, thank God the people who were suicidal were sent to you for counsel.

    Suicide and depression are complicated matters. I think it is good to remind people who had friends or loved ones that have committed suicide that it is NOT their fault. A lot of people feel very guilty when someone commits suicide. They feel like maybe they could have done something to prevent it. Ultimately, it is the person's decision. It's not a snap decision, it comes from a long time of being depressed.

    For people who are suicidal, they need professional help, immediately. They may need to take antidepressants. There is no shame in this. Depression is an illness, not a sin.

    I worked in a mental hospital. I remember talking to a girl who had recently suffered a psychotic episode. She had went home for a visit and had not been taking her medication. I told her that she had a chronic illness like diabetes. Diabetics have to take medicine every day to live, and she might have to as well.

    People who are seriously depressed and suicidal need therapy. It might take a few rounds with different therapists to find the right fit.

    There are some differences in being suicidal and wanting to die. Some big signs of being suicidal is imagining killing yourself, your funeral, writing good bye notes, giving away possessions. If this is taking place, the person needs IMMEDIATE psychiatric help.

    Suicidal people have "bad tapes" playing in their heads. The tapes tell them that nothing will ever be alright, that the world would be better off without them, that the only thing that will make their problems go away is death. The "bad tapes" have to be replaced with "good tapes". This can be done with psychiatric help and therapy.

    But, yes- pray constantly for depressed and suicidal people.
     
  6. Whitworth

    Whitworth New Member

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    It's no coincidence that I should stumble across this thread.

    I've literally not long ago just finished watching a video on YouTube by a lady called
    Tamara Laroux.

    She was a young teenager when she shot herself in the chest in a suicide attempt and as a result experienced the saving grace of Jesus Christ. She was saved and has since gone on to write a book and testify about her experience.

    Here's the thing, as someone who struggled and to some extent still struggles with mental health, self harm and suicide attempts (especially when I was younger) I know how unhelpful the Church can be. Many Christians will tell you it's a one way ticket to hell or tell families affected by suicide that there's no guarantee of where that person is now.

    I think Christians can be very damning sometimes, words can be very dangerous and here's the bottom line, while it's impossible to claim someone is in Heaven (even so called "perfect Christians" who have lead their life from the outside as what others would consider a perfect and Holy life) it's also impossible to claim someone is in Hell.

    As Tamara says in her testimony, right before she shot herself she cried out for God to forgive her, this cry out to God and plea for forgiveness saved her. By faith she was saved.

    Now don't get me wrong, this isn't to condone, encourage or justify suicide. Quite the opposite. It's just to let other Christians know to choose their words carefully. My take home from this is that our God is so powerful He can save ANYONE. Nobody, not even those on the edge of suicide are far away from God's love, mercy and grace.

    That is what truly matters.

    Just my two cents.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
  7. ValleyGal

    ValleyGal Well-Known Member

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    People who are truly suicidal (have a plan) are unlikely to tell anyone. But there are signs. Make sure you know the signs so you can try to intervene before an attempt happens. If you know someone has a plan to harm themselves, you have a moral (and possibly legal) responsibility to report this to a police officer, clergy, social worker, or EMT.

    People who are contemplating suicide are not being "selfish"; rather, they are so desperate that they see no other way out of their current pain, and they are so wrapped in their pain that they cannot see the pain they would leave for others if they are successful at a suicide. Find out what their pain is, then join them in their suffering. True empathy without judgement goes a long way.

    Of course, suicide is a very complex issue. It is also culturally constructed. In Canada, suicide used to be illegal. It happened anyway; after all, you can't arrest me if I'm dead. Suicidal people in prison are put under suicide watch, and there is intervention to prevent it, but rarely is the reason ever addressed. More teens attempt suicide, but more elderly men succeed at a suicide attempt (they are more serious about their decision and have the means to do it). We stigmatize those who attempt, and dismiss as mentally ill, but not all people who attempt are mentally ill. There are judgements and assumptions. BUT... also in Canada among certain tribes of our Indigenous peoples do not stigmatize or judge suicide as bad or illness; rather they suggest that their ancestors were calling for them, and it is an honour to be called and courageous to answer that call.

    The best thing you can do for someone you know is suicidal or contemplating it, is to acknowledge the deep pain they must be drowning in, and ask them if it would be okay to accompany them to a clinic, counsellor, hospital, social worker, clergy, or even to help them find and dial a crisis line. These people are trained to deal with the kinds of crisis that the person is going through. Do not leave the person alone... just "be with" them until they are ready to talk to someone with you or without you. Chances are, if someone can help alleviate their pain, they would not choose to end their lives.
     
  8. Galatea

    Galatea Well-Known Member

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    More women attempt suicide, and more men succeed. The difference is women typically take an overdose or slit their wrists- which is not always fatal. Men typically shoot themselves or hang themselves.
     
  9. Kit Sigmon

    Kit Sigmon Well-Known Member

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    I've burned the midnight oil many times with people who were suicidal...what they all had in common? they felt unloved/not valued, felt they didn't measure up, felt life/opportunity was passing them by.
    The effect of regular prayer and presence can make a difference in the life of somebody who feel like they are worthless and nobody would actually miss them if they were dead.
     
  10. Godlovesmetwo

    Godlovesmetwo Fringe Catholic

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    What do you say to someone who says "Nobody would miss me if I die, anyway."?
    I've got the stock cliché answer "Yes they would. I would miss you for one."
    But that can sound so phoney. Anyone more creative in reassuring a suicidal?
     
  11. Godlovesmetwo

    Godlovesmetwo Fringe Catholic

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    In my brief experience, I try to postpone at least or distract.
    "Would you like to talk to ......... ? I can call them for you now."
    "Hey come on, let's go for a coffee."
    "Can you just promise you'll wait until the morning? You might feel different then."
     
  12. Godlovesmetwo

    Godlovesmetwo Fringe Catholic

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    sorry just reminds me of a side issue which is suicide and the availability of guns
     
  13. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Suicide by gun is not common in females.
     
  14. NothingIsImpossible

    NothingIsImpossible Well-Known Member

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    As I mentioned in the other thread those that really want to do it just do it and no one ever seen it coming. But I should add the one hard thing about dealing with someone who is suicidal is make sure you know what your doing. Because if what you say makes things worse they will do it. And while it was still up to them to do it or not, you will be stuck knowing you made the situation worse.
     
  15. Goodbook

    Goodbook Reading the Bible

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    I think people need to know that God loves them. You can say you love them, but our human love is nothing compared to Gods love, he loved us even when we were sinners.

    I have suffered depression but not to the extent of being suicidal. With this young man, friend shared a poem he wrote about the black dog of depression. It is a beast.

    He tried to kill it but ended up killing himself because he wanted to be rid of it and not own it anymore.The beast isnt a literal beast its a spritual demonic beast that latches on to people.

    This poor man hung himself. We dont know if he knew the Lord, he was cremated. However his funeral was held at the christian centre. But most of his family are agnostic.

    I also knew one christian guy who suicided, a former workmate. Again he must have been suffering too. I know he was a christian because he talked to me about missions and reviewed books for the baptist newspaper. I was so shocked when I heard. i think satan does a number on people.

    It is good to hear from people who testify being saved from suicide attempts. At least they know who to cry out to.

    Do you think people really know what they doing when they attempt this kind of thing. Like maybe people have two minds or are double minded. The bible says we are to be singleminded. Could this be taken literally?
     
  16. Goodbook

    Goodbook Reading the Bible

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    I think as christians prayer is powerful and the holy spirit gives us words to say in difficult situations like this. We might not know what to say but God can still speak through us as vessels to reach someone.

    One time in church a lady testified that she was driving along one time from work and detoured somehwere out of the way and saw this man who was about to jump off the bridge. GOd prompted her to talk to this man. She told him that Jesus loves him and he was thankful this complete stranger spoke to him and asked him if he was alright cos he was about to end it all.
     
  17. Godlovesmetwo

    Godlovesmetwo Fringe Catholic

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    Good. Because I can tell you that I've seen people who've failed suicide and they end up physically and intellectually disabled and need looking after. A living hell worse than how they were before. I hate to say this, but showing people the results of failed suicides might be enough to wake some of them up at least. Not the clinically depressed I admit but still.
     
  18. Goodbook

    Goodbook Reading the Bible

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    I havent met anyone who 'failed suicide' but had read about people who made suicide attempts, they end up in mental institutions. Eg famous people like judy garland, sylvia plath. The latter wrote a novel and poems that was her kind of confessional, and then 'succeeded' when she was 32. The cruel thing was she had two small children at the time.

    The workmate was married with four grown children, and now I recall a another workmate also married with children, it would have been devastating for them, more so as they were small. I think in the mens case it was financial worries.

    I dont really know of women personally who have taken their life but i met a girl online who testified that God prevented her from doing so, at the time I was reluctant to believe her testimony but she actually shared with me her faith and the gospel that took. I was a seeker at the time, unsure that God could do anything supernatural, but He did. So she was one of the 'failed' who ended up becoming a stronger christian. (She told me she deliberately took all these pills but didnt die)

    That people survive is because God somehow intervenes, but people that attempt are often put under mental health surveillance. Which means often they cant work and have a stigma or label. I suppose in that way it does have a consequence for the rest of your life as one of my neighbours told me when he was young he went on a kind of starvation diet, became anorexic and ended up in hospital. It was because he was teased for being fat. Hes now fine as far as eating goes but was never able to hold down any job after that.

    Often people get prescribed anti depressant pills by doctors but the danger with these prescriptions is people then become dependant on pills instead of facing the issue (or kicking the demons out). You can work on them but if you declare that you were hospitalised for mental health many employers are not willing to take the risk. The same if you want to buy a house and go to the bank to obtain a mortgage. Banks may be unwilling to lend to someone whos attempted suicide as they wouldnt be able to get their money back.

    To me it does seem finanical worries contribute a lot to peoples depression pushing them over the edge. The feeling of not being good enough or esrning enough perhaps to provide for the future. They might feel the problem of debt goes away if they end their life? But it doesnt really its the worst thing you can do. I dont know if this gets talked about much. In todays world people just assume you doing fine if you have a job but not realising the pressure of maintaining a way of life when the cost of living is so high.
     
  19. ValleyGal

    ValleyGal Well-Known Member

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    Empathy. They are in such a state of mind that they would not believe you if you tell them you will miss them. Instead, get into their emotions.
    "Nobody would miss me if I die"
    "That means you feel unloved, like no one at all cares about you. That feels like it would be really lonely to me. Is that how you feel, lonely?"
    If they say yes, then ask them to go a little deeper into what "lonely" looks and feels like. That may take you both into the deep darkness of their pain.
     
  20. ValleyGal

    ValleyGal Well-Known Member

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    In hindsight, people learn about the things to watch for. Usually, there are signs. I had one gal on my caseload who made a successful attempt. During one of our visits, I could see her anxiety and made a referral for mental health. She had come from a traumatic background, she started isolating, she had dropped a few of her friends. After she had been seeing a mental health worker for a while, she did the classical thing....she started giving away her precious things, started going out with her friends and family, then there was a hint of "goodbye". Everyone thought she was just getting better. But then she did it. Had they all known those were signs of it, they could have intervened. Often, though, these signs are very subtle. You are right that they rarely actually talk about it, though. They may talk about death, but not in the context of their own death.

    You are also right that if someone does talk about suicide or shows the signs, direct them to the professionals who are trained. EMT, social workers, counsellors, mental health outreach workers, doctors, crisis line, etc. If anyone is aware of someone who is contemplating, you may be at legal (and definitely moral) obligation to report. Find out the crisis number in your region, know who you can call.
     
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