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Talk of possible war with Syria.

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Echolipse, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. Echolipse

    Echolipse Watcher and Studier

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    ***I am in no way trying to set dates, just thinking outloud and getting people's opinions***

    With all the talk about possible attacking Syria and with the Feast of Trumpets starting on Saturday the 7th, anyone find this interesting?
     
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  2. shawnavery

    shawnavery this space for rent

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  3. Jon Anon

    Jon Anon Newbie

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    31 days til the arrival of elijah and revelaion 12 sign woman clothed with the sun
     
  4. John S

    John S I'm Here - For Now

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    Nope.
     
  5. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

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    The new moon will appear and the trumpets will sound, but no one will be going anywhere.

    Matthew 24:29-31
    Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


    2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
    Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
     
  6. Jon Anon

    Jon Anon Newbie

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    Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and Feast of Tabernacles are the 3 fall feasts but are only rehearsals to the true meaning of the feasts

    In the end the true Rosh Hashanah date will happen the day Russia and China attack America(Gods judgement) and the 10 days of awe between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur will actually be 10 years of awe (42 months of Jacobs trouble and then the beginning of the 7 year tribulation for a total of 10 years

    Jacob is America and they will be destroyed and taken into captivity for 42 months before the beginning of the 7 year tribulation:




    When will Elijah the prophet appear in the world?
    The first thing we need to determine is when is "The great and terrible day of the lord"?

    We know from Malachi 4:5-6:
    5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

    6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse


    So we know Elijah comes BEFORE the curse....so before the tribulation starts.

    When paul is speaking of 'the day of the lord' in 1 thessalonians 5:3 he says they will be saying peace and safety right before the day of the lord begins so it is a pre-tribulation time that Elijah arrives on the scene because Elijah will be sent "BEFORE" the day of the lord:

    1 thessalonians 5:3:
    For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction comes upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.



    The next question would be:
    How long before the day of the lord does Elijah come to turn the hearts of the children to the fathers and the heart of the fathers to the children?

    With television and media sources I would think 40 days would be an ample amount of time for a God sent Elijah to send a message of repentance to the people so let's work with 40 days which in the bible represents time of testing or judgement and the same period of time ninevah received to turn back to God in Jonahs time.



    [​IMG]

    When John the baptist came in the power and spirit of Elijah he came clearing a path for the arrival of messiah(Jesus)

    When the last day Elijah comes he will clear a path for the arrival of "the day of the lord" in a time of judgement.

    When God brings judgement he brings your enemies against you to deliver the rod of discipline and then later breaks that rod when he is finished using it.

    The day of the lord may be the judgement of the united states and the carrying away captive of the small remnant that will survive the judement which will be taken into captivity and through a furnace of affliction made into a holy people


    [​IMG]




    When a moshiach(anointed one) arrives there is a pattern of showing up and then going back into hiding and then reappearing which should be the same thing Elijah will do

    examples of anointed ones arriving then going into hiding then reappearing

    1. Moses ruler in Egypt then went into desert for 40 years before arriving as deliverer of Hebrew children

    2. Eiljah test with the prophets of baal then was afraid of Jezebel and then went into hiding to reappear later

    3. Jesus arrived 2000 years ago to be our atonement for sin and after being gone for 2000 years will reappear in the end


    4. The final Elijah should appear with a 40 day call to repentance before the judgement and then go into the wilderness just as most all of Gods servants do as even Jesus was 40 days in the wilderness before his beginning of his ministry


    The question is what sign will bring forth the final Elijah?

    Perhaps the sign of the woman clothed with the sun and moon under her feet of Ocotber 6 2013 will be the sign that brings forth the final Elijah with a 40 day call to repentance before the great and terrible day of the lord:


    [​IMG]





    The next thing we need to look at is the misconception that the tribulation period is only 7 years long when revelation 2:10 states you will have tribulation 10 days which represent 10 years:
    Rev 2:10:
    10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer : behold , the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried ; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

    There is a time known as Jacobs trouble and people automatically throw this time period in with the 7 year tribulation when actually it should be 42 months prior and separate to the 7 year tribulation bringing the total tribulation to 10 days(years) as stated in Rev 2:10


    This time period will coincide with the fulfillment of the 3 fall feasts that need to be fulfilled:

    1. Feast of trumpets(Day of the lord)
    2. Feast of Yom Kippur(10 days later) representing 10 years
    3. Feast of Tabernacles(1000 year millinium)


    The time period between Feast of trumpet and Yom kippur are known as 10 days of awe but in actuality they will be 10 years of awe and will end with the death of the two witnesses being the official day of atonement(Yom kippur) as the tishri 1-10 are merely rehearsals to the true fulfillment of the fall feast which could not be celebrated with as much rememberance if they were celebrated with the true 10 years of awe so just 10 days of awe between feast of trumpets and yom kippur are celebrated each year to keep those fall feasts in rememberance


    So when the judgement of America comes it will be considered the true Feast of trumpets date and possibly it will be 40 days after the final Elijah shows up which could be October 6 2013. The true yom kippur date will be the final day of the two witnesses testimony and death
     
  7. Echolipse

    Echolipse Watcher and Studier

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    Thank you both for your input, especially you Jon Anon. I will definitely continue looking into that.
     
  8. usexpat97

    usexpat97 kewlness

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    What I absolutely hate is when people say Israel is this wonderful fulfillment of prophecy, we need a battle of Gog and Magog, that battle involves Syria, and so we need to help it along. Not to name names [Hagee] or mention anyone specifically [Hagee], though.
     
  9. Houly

    Houly Member

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    Yeah, Gog and Magog and everything else happens and will happen exactly as God planned out long ago. All wrath is His; none is ours. Christians need to be preaching and practicing nonviolence. Many "Christians" and others try to do the work of God by waging "righteous" wars, and they could not be more blind.

    There's nothing wrong with looking at the signs and prophecies and discussing if this is a certain fulfillment (as the OP does). But to think (as others do) that means our hands should be used for violence is ridiculous. Our bodies are the temple of God. We should always be preaching against war.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
  10. dogs4thewin

    dogs4thewin dog lover Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    While I am all for world peace that does not mean that if I see something wrong I will not fight it with force ( deadly if I could and had to) We are to preach peace, but that does not mean if I see someone being harmed I should not defend them.
     
  11. Houly

    Houly Member

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    We should be fully willing to sacrifice, even our lives, for another person by putting ourselves in their place. We should realize who is in the wrong and preach and stand against their actions, but we should NEVER use deadly force, even against an "evil enemy." Jesus came to redeem that enemy of ours as well, and it is never our place to take his life. Instead, we should trust in the way God taught for us: Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. (Matthew 5:44)

    Every single person that uses violence thinks it's in a good cause, and it never is. You are not fighting against evil, you are giving into it. The good cause is sacrificing yourself for the sake of nonviolence and even for your enemy's sake (rather than you using deadly force, you allow him the option to either do so against you or repent). And there's no reason to fear that enemy using deadly force, since you always know that God will end your life exactly when and how He has planned for you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
  12. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    There will be "wars and rumors of wars"...what's new?
     
  13. heavenlessstar

    heavenlessstar Tony

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    Yeah it's interesting but I don't think anything rapture-like will happen. It's too obvious.
     
  14. Bible2

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    Regarding the claims of some that Israel is a wonderful fulfillment of prophecy, the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) can refer to the 1948 reestablishment of Israel, just as Jesus' cursing of the fig tree (Matthew 21:19) was symbolic of his curse on unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel (Matthew 21:43). The Israel that was reestablished in 1948 is the same Old Covenant Israel that Jesus cursed at his first coming, for it still rejects Jesus and still considers itself to be under the Old Covenant. This Israel merely "putting forth leaves" again (Matthew 24:32) in 1948 was nothing more than a restoration to what the fig tree in Matthew 21:19,43 had been before it was cursed forever by Jesus and then destroyed in 70 AD: a tree with leaves, but without any fruit. And the unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel that was reestablished in 1948 may never bear fruit, for it could be destroyed before Jesus' 2nd coming, during a future war, by a Baathist army, just as it had been destroyed in 70 AD by a Roman army.

    Regarding the claims of some that we need a battle of Gog and Magog, the Gog/Magog attack on Israel (Ezekiel chapters 38-39) won't occur until after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-10), when there will be no defensive walls or fear of attack in Israel whatsoever (Ezekiel 38:11). This is the exact opposite of today's situation, when Israel is filled with very high defensive walls, and is in constant fear of attack. At the beginning of the millennium, all present-day weapons of war will be destroyed, and they won't be allowed to be remade during the millennium (Micah 4:3-4). That's why after the millennium, the Gog/Magog armies will employ only rudimentary, wooden weapons like bows and arrows, spears, shields, and clubs (Ezekiel 39:9), which, after the defeat of the Gog/Magog armies, will be able to be used as convenient firewood by the people living in Israel at that time, instead of them having to go out and collect or cut down firewood from the forest (Ezekiel 39:10).

    The Gog in Revelation 20:8 is the same as in Ezekiel chapters 38-39: an individual human leader whose personal name is "Gog" (Ezekiel 38:3). He could be born near the end of the millennium, and he will be killed and buried at the end of the Gog/Magog attack (Ezekiel 39:11). The Gog/Magog armies are defeated by fire from heaven in both accounts of the attack (Ezekiel 38:22, Revelation 20:9). While the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) will occur subsequent to the defeat of the Gog/Magog attack (Revelation 20:7-15), nothing requires (as is sometimes claimed) that the great white throne judgment has to happen immediately after the defeat of the attack. For there will be at least 7 years (Ezekiel 39:9b) between the defeat of the Gog/Magog attack and the great white throne judgment.

    Also, the Gog/Magog attack won't have to (as is sometimes claimed) involve only the nations listed in Ezekiel chapters 38-39. Those nations could be just a sampling. For the "nations" (ethnos), or peoples, who will be involved in the Gog/Magog attack will come from all over the earth (Revelation 20:8). They will still be physically part of Jesus' worldwide kingdom, still legally under his rule, just as they had been during the preceding millennium (Psalms 72:8-11, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 2). But after the millennium, they will be deceived by Satan into committing the attack (Revelation 20:7-10).

    Also, while the Gog/Magog attack on Israel won't occur until after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), Israel could suffer a different attack at the start of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which attack could result in Israel's total defeat and occupation (Daniel 11:15-17).

    And Jerusalem could be attacked in the future at least 3 times before the millennium: once near the start of the future tribulation (Daniel 11:22), then again mid-tribulation (Daniel 11:31), and then at the tribulation's end (Daniel 11:45), right before Jesus' 2nd coming and the start of the millennium (Zechariah 14:2-21).
     
  15. Bible2

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    Amen.

    Under the New Covenant, which Christians are under (Matthew 26:28, Jeremiah 31:31), Christians are commanded never to harm anyone, even in self-defense (Matthew 5:39,44, Matthew 26:52; 2 Corinthians 10:3-5).

    Believers don't employ physical weapons or any other violence against people (2 Corinthians 10:3-5, Ephesians 6:12-18). Instead, Jesus at his first coming set the example for believers of what they're to do when they're physically attacked by people (1 Peter 2:19-23). Believers are to go meekly like sheep to the slaughter (Romans 8:36), just like Jesus did (Isaiah 53:7). Obedient believers know that death is no loss for them, but gain (Philippians 1:21), as it brings their souls into heaven to be with Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:8), which is far better than remaining in this world (Philippians 1:23). During the future tribulation, believers will have to face martyrdom with patience and faith to the end (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4, Matthew 24:9-13), just as believers have always had to spiritually overcome in the face of martyrdom (e.g. Revelation 2:10-11). Obedient believers shouldn't fear death (Hebrews 2:15), and shouldn't love their lives unto death (Revelation 12:11b), but should hate their lives in this world if they're to retain eternal life (John 12:25, Mark 8:34-38).

    Also, Christians are commanded to love their enemies (Matthew 5:44), and that means they must do them no harm (Romans 13:10a, Matthew 7:12).
     
  16. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    Amen.

    The end time events prophesied in the Bible begin with a general collapse of government throughout the Roman world. We see that developing now. We have already seen such a collapse in the former USSR, and the same thing that destroyed it is being done in both Europe and the USA.

    There will indeed be wars in the middle east, but until we see a widespread collapse of governments and the rise of ten kings (today we call them dictators) the end time events have not yet begun to unfold.

    This is true whether the rapture is before or after these events.
     
  17. interpreter

    interpreter Senior Member

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    Wrong. Jesus came not to bring peace, but a sword (Mat. 10:34). We are to use it to slay the enemies of Jesus (Luke 19:27).
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2013
  18. jsimms615

    jsimms615 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Part of the issue is that if we ignore a wrong or injustice then is that morally right? if we have it within our power to stop it and don't.
     
  19. heavenlessstar

    heavenlessstar Tony

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    We speak out. We don't fight. The one true God fights the people's battles, and the people fight the false god's battles - it's the difference between the true faith and false faiths (Islam) . The battle is the Lord's.
     
  20. Houly

    Houly Member

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    That's not a sword made of metal. That argument is used to justify just about every war: "God wants us to kill these evil people, His enemies," and the other side makes the same argument. They are both wrong. Every single person that uses violence thinks it's in a good cause, and it never is. It's the same argument used by some radical Muslims today (as one example) to wage an ongoing "holy war" against their enemies: the Jews and also Christians. The OT law was to love our neighbors and hate our enemies; Jesus taught us why that is no longer the way.

    God delivers the wrath, and it is never through the bloody hands of saints. Read Bible2's comment above for several verses commanding us to be meek, humble, and pacifist in all circumstances, even (especially) in the face of enemies; that is the time for trial: are we willing to stand and accept persecution (even beheading) for the sake of Christ and the way He commanded for us, rather than turning to violence.

    I hear you, but we don't ignore it. We instead understand that the only righteous way for us to respond to violence and persecution is with nonviolence (preaching and practicing) and prayer.

    Like I said in a couple posts back and you know, we will leave this life exactly when and how God has planned for each of us. Violence does not bring us security. We are underestimating God to ever think that we need to resort to violence in order to keep security (to think it's in our power, but not His). In Syria, the people responsible for those chemical attacks have a limited time (their life spans) to repent, or they will be facing a wrath so beyond our capabilities. That is the sword we deliver to them: the word of the true wrath they will be facing, not our own missiles and wrath. And yes we pray that even they come to repentance. Look at Paul's road to repentance. The 1,400 victims, including 400 children, of the chemical weapon in Syria were taken from this world on the exact day they were meant to be taken, and they are in a much better place. If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father (John 14:28).

    Amen.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2013
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