Ta-Nehisi Coates Assails Mitch McConnell at Raucous Reparations Hearing

[Radagast]

There's no real way to measure the direct impact of redlining. There's no doubt that redlining was a racist policy instituted against black people.

That's not even clear.... it was a policy against lending to people in areas where house prices were declining (because such loans represented a bad risk).

It is true that the declining-house-price areas were often also majority-black areas, but I've never seen a proof that racism was the motivation behind the scheme.

And when banks were eventually forced to make high-risk loans, the consequence was the Global Financial Crisis.

It's like if Harvard discriminated against whites.

They do. And even more so, against Asians.

 

[SummerMadness]

That's not even clear.... it was a policy against lending to people in areas where house prices were declining (because such loans represented a bad risk).

It is true that the declining-house-price areas were often also majority-black areas, but I've never seen a proof that racism was the motivation behind the scheme.

And when banks were eventually forced to make high-risk loans, the consequence was the Global Financial Crisis.

They do. And even more so, against Asians.

They based undesirability on race and ethnicity, this is a simple fact. You're arguing a history that did not exist. They banned the practice of redlining because it was based on racism, not economics. Is this the new tactic? Deny history and then argue as if the real history does not exist.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That's not even clear.... it was a policy against lending to people in areas where house prices were declining (because such loans represented a bad risk).

It is true that the declining-house-price areas were often also majority-black areas, but I've never seen a proof that racism was the motivation behind the scheme.

And when banks were eventually forced to make high-risk loans, the consequence was the Global Financial Crisis.



They do. And even more so, against Asians.

Perhaps you aren't aware...but the people pushing for this don't consistently apply the definition of racism to anything. The fact that you won't necessarily find any actual intent to discriminate against a particular race isn't an issue for them. In their imagination....anything that might disproportionately affect black people in a negative way applies. Things like intent....or motive....these are just luxuries. They'll make do without them.

In their minds, it's all racism whether anyone realizes it or not.

 

[Radagast]

They based undesirability on race and ethnicity, this is a simple fact.

Well, no, they based desirability/undesirability on whether house prices were rising or falling.

They banned the practice of redlining because it was based on racism, not economics.

They restricted redlining, I understand, because it had negative effects on certain races. The consequences of that restriction included the GFC, where banks foreclosed on thousands of properties that had dropped in value, thus making massive losses (which they sneakily passed on to the rest of the world via MBS).

If you have evidence of actual racism in redlining, please pass it on. I have never seen any.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Well, no, they based desirability/undesirability on whether house prices were rising or falling.



They restricted redlining, I understand, because it had negative effects on certain races. The consequences of that restriction included the GFC, where banks foreclosed on thousands of properties that had dropped in value, thus making massive losses (which they sneakily passed on to the rest of the world via MBS).

If you have evidence of actual racism in redlining, please pass it on. I have never seen any.

How hard have you looked?

From the 1938 FHA Underwriting Manual:

https://www.huduser.gov/portal/site...ousing-Administration-Underwriting-Manual.pdf

Similarity of price range does not provide a basis for such comparisons if certain racial aspects render the locations actually noncompetitive.

935. Natural Physical Protection. The geographical position of a location may afford reliable protection from adverse influences. If a location lies in the middle of an area well developed with a uniform type of residential properties, and if the location is away from main arteries which would logically be used for business purposes, probability of a change in type, use, or occupancy of properties at this location is remote. The degree of immunity offered to a location because of its geographical position within the city is to be considered. Natural or artificially established barriers will prove effective in protecting a neighborhood and the locations within it from adverse influences. Usually the protection from adverse influences afforded by these means includes prevention of the infiltration of business and industrial uses, lower class occupancy, and inharmonious racial groups.

Areas surrounding a location are investigated to determine whether incompatible racial and social groups are present, for the purpose of making a prediction regarding the probability of the location being invaded by such groups. If a neighborhood is to retain stability, it is necessary that properties shall continue to be occupied by the same social and racial classes. A change in social or racial occupancy generally contributes to instability and a decline in values.

However, if the children of people living in such an area are compelled to attend school where the majority or a considerable number of the pupils represent a far lower level of society or an incompatible racial element, the neighborhood under consideration will prove far less stable and desirable than if this condition did not exist.

973. Social Attractiveness. Satisfaction, contentment, and comfort result from association with persons of similar social attributes. Families enjoy social relationships with other families whose education, abilities, mode of living, and racial characteristics: are similar to their own.

982 (1). Adequacy of Civic, Social, and Commercial Centers. These elements of comfortable living usually follow rather than precede development. Those centers serving the city or section in which the development is situated should be readily available to its occupants. Schools should be appropriate to the needs of the new community; and they should not be attended in large numbers by inharmonious racial groups.

This is true because of the opposite effects produced on the economic life estimate and on the Location rating by threatening or probable encroachments of incongruous land uses and by threatening or probable infiltration of inharmonious racial groups. The probability or imminence of such encroachments or infiltrations will result always in low ratings of some of the features in the Location category.

The infiltration of inharmonious racial groups will produce the same effects as those which follow the introduction of incongruous land uses, when the latter tend to lower the level of land values and lessen the desirability of residential areas

The degree of social and racial compatibility of the inhabitants of the neighborhood. The presence of socially or racially inharmonious groups in a neighborhood tends to lessen or destroy owner-occupancy appeal

Now, all I did was a text search for the word "racial". I was going to stop there, since it clearly illustrated my point and since search results for "racial" had a much higher signal-to-noise ratio than search results for "race" (which mostly appears inside the words "embrace" and "terrace") or "white" (which turned up a lot of hits for lumber varieties). But I kept going and found a few more:

980 (3). Recorded restrictive covenants should strengthen and supplement zoning ordinances and to be really effective should include the provisions listed below. The restrictions should be recorded with the plat, or imposed as a blanket encumbrance against an lots in the subdivision, and should run for a period of at least twenty-five to thirty years. Recommended restrictions should include provision for the following:
a. Allocation of definite areas for specific uses such as single or two-:family houses, apartments, and business structures
b. The placement of buildings so they will have adequate light and air with assurance of a space of at least ten feet between buildings
c. Prohibition of the resubdivision of lots
d. Prohibition of the erection of more than one dwelling per lot
e. Control of the design of all buildings, by requiring their approval by a qualified committee, and by appropriate cost limitations or minimum square foot ground flo'oo;areas ) 978--980 RATING OF LOCATION L_ • •
f. Prohibition of nuisances or undesirable buildings such as stables, pig pens, temporary dwellings, and high fences
g. Prohibition of the occupancy of properties except by the race for which they are intended
h, Appropriate provisions for enforcement

1032. The borrower who acquires property for occupancy in a location inhabited by a class or race of people that may impair his interest in the property-and thereby affect his motivation-should be ascribed a lower rating in this feature to reflect the diminishing importance of the property to the borrower

 

[SummerMadness]

How hard have you looked?

From the 1938 FHA Underwriting Manual:

https://www.huduser.gov/portal/site...ousing-Administration-Underwriting-Manual.pdf

Now, all I did was a text search for the word "racial". I was going to stop there, since it clearly illustrated my point and since search results for "racial" had a much higher signal-to-noise ration than search results for "race" (which mostly appears inside the words "embrace" and "terrace") or "white" (which turned up a lot of hits for lumber varieties). But I kept going and found a few more:

It's seriously the twilight zone here where folks are trying to turn racism into "not racism." Slavery? Not racist, other societies had slavery. Sharecropping? Not racist, it's simply an economic system where people had to pay their debts. Redlining? Not racist, they were simply avoiding the poor people (we'll also conveniently ignore that we made them poor by preventing them from attaining wealth). Racist statements? Not racist, it's just another view, how dare you attack people for simply expressing a controversial view.

It seems that the tactic now is to argue that blatant racism in the past was not racism so that when we get to more subtle racism or attempts to hide racism (e.g., NC GOP targeting and disenfranchising African American voters), then you can claim that there is no racism. Because you're only a racist if you wear a T-shirt saying, "I am a racist," along with an ID card and signature agreeing with this assessment.

 

[SummerMadness]

Reparations for slavery aren't enough. Official racism lasted much longer.

Do the descendants of slaves deserve reparations? For the first time in a century and a half, there is a legitimate political debate on this question. Many of the top Democratic presidential hopefuls support establishing them in some form, or at least launching a commission to study how it might be done. This past week, on Juneteenth, the House held a hearing on H.R. 40, a bill that would do just that.

But if Americans are now willing to entertain the notion of restorative justice for the legacy of institutional racism, slavery alone is the wrong place to focus. The damage to African Americans continued long after abolition in 1865. Efforts to subordinate and economically exploit black people extended through peonage, convict leasing, sharecropping, Jim Crow, redlined black ghettos and mass incarceration. The ideology of white supremacy, used to justify slavery, persists. Why should subsequent racist practices get a pass while we zoom in on outright bondage? Anti-black segregation lives on, and the current damage to slavery’s descendants is direct and measurable.

 

[Ana the Ist]

How hard have you looked?

From the 1938 FHA Underwriting Manual:

https://www.huduser.gov/portal/site...ousing-Administration-Underwriting-Manual.pdf



















Now, all I did was a text search for the word "racial". I was going to stop there, since it clearly illustrated my point and since search results for "racial" had a much higher signal-to-noise ratio than search results for "race" (which mostly appears inside the words "embrace" and "terrace") or "white" (which turned up a lot of hits for lumber varieties). But I kept going and found a few more:

Unfortunately, unless the people writing those policies were 1 year old at the time, they're probably long dead.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It's seriously the twilight zone here where folks are trying to turn racism into "not racism." Slavery? Not racist, other societies had slavery. Sharecropping? Not racist, it's simply an economic system where people had to pay their debts.

Why stop at sharecropping? Why not include indentured servitude?

Racist statements? Not racist, it's just another view, how dare you attack people for simply expressing a controversial view.

There's that magically expanding definition of racism again...just a few days ago, it involved taking away people's rights....now that the topic is reparations, it includes "racist statements".

It seems that the tactic now is to argue that blatant racism in the past was not racism so that when we get to more subtle racism or attempts to hide racism (e.g., NC GOP targeting and disenfranchising African American voters), then you can claim that there is no racism. Because you're only a racist if you wear a T-shirt saying, "I am a racist," along with an ID card and signature agreeing with this assessment.

Well at some point you have to decide what racism is if you want to discuss it. Nobody is going to agree that racism is "whatever you claim it is". That's ridiculous.

 

[SummerMadness]

McConnell's flippant attack on reparations was really an argument for white supremacy

Responding to the latest iteration of the reparations for American chattel slavery debate, Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell dismissed the issue out of hand. Now famously, he commented that reparations were "not a good idea" because, "We've tried to deal with our original sin of slavery by fighting a civil war, by passing landmark civil rights legislation. We elected an African American president."

In making this argument, McConnell, either through ignorance or insidious intentionality, erases history by creating a fictional timeline of unbroken national progress that can only convince the uniformed or imbecilic. In reality, America has responded to every step forward with muscular racial retrenchment. Let’s take a brief look.

 

[iluvatar5150]

McConnell's flippant attack on reparations was really an argument for white supremacy

Did you see Bill O'Reilly's tweet the other day?

Bill O’Reilly Drops Accidental Truth Bomb On U.S. History Of ‘Racist White Men’

 

[SummerMadness]

Did you see Bill O'Reilly's tweet the other day?

Bill O’Reilly Drops Accidental Truth Bomb On U.S. History Of ‘Racist White Men’

Wow, I agree with Bill O'Reilly. The Loofah Lord strikes again!

 

[Ana the Ist]

Did you see Bill O'Reilly's tweet the other day?

Bill O’Reilly Drops Accidental Truth Bomb On U.S. History Of ‘Racist White Men’

He claimed the left believes certain things....and people on the left agreed thet believe those things.

That's not "accidental". He made a valid point and some people clearly missed it.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Did you see Bill O'Reilly's tweet the other day?

Bill O’Reilly Drops Accidental Truth Bomb On U.S. History Of ‘Racist White Men’

​

Wow, I agree with Bill O'Reilly. The Loofah Lord strikes again!

It isn't a radical belief because America was founded by racist white men who installed a system whereby white guys would run everything and blacks, women and others would be exploited.

The United States of America was founded on massive land theft, hundreds of violated treaties with the tribal nations, white supremacy, and racism and discrimination against minorities. There were forced Indian removals, brutal massacres of Native Americans, 89 years of slavery, the Three-Fifths Compromise, and nearly two centuries of denying minorities civil rights and equality to white people.

​

 

[Ana the Ist]

It isn't a radical belief because America was founded by racist white men who installed a system whereby white guys would run everything and blacks, women and others would be exploited.

If that was the intention...it wasn't spelled out anywhere.

The United States of America was founded on massive land theft, hundreds of violated treaties with the tribal nations, white supremacy, and racism and discrimination against minorities. There were forced Indian removals, brutal massacres of Native Americans, 89 years of slavery, the Three-Fifths Compromise, and nearly two centuries of denying minorities civil rights and equality to white people.

Basically every group that came here at one time or another fled or faced (or both) persecution. Even my ancestors...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hi...ed-the-irish-the-19th-centurys-refugee-crisis

My ancestors fled from forced labor and starvation by the British, and when they arrived, they were welcomed by both racial and religious discrimination...both personal and politically institutionalized. This lasted roughly 90 years.

Who gives me a check?

 

[SummerMadness]

It isn't a radical belief because America was founded by racist white men who installed a system whereby white guys would run everything and blacks, women and others would be exploited.

At the outset, they only wanted things run by "property owners," which has translated into the current love for using arms of the government, like law enforcement, for "protection of property rights." That's one reason why you'll hear the whining and screaming about trespassing when a black or brown person is the target of discrimination. Property, something that was once withheld from people of color, is the ultimate weapon to wield against a black person living freely. Because what often happens is when the reason for discrimination is defeated, then it's, "Well, you're trespassing and I will have the police remove you!"

 

[Pommer]

You're a struggling young person from the inner city. You're given the ability to attend a truck driving school. You're now making $50K - $90K a year traveling all across the country, and since you can get by on just half of that (maybe a little more with taxes) you're kicking the rest back to your family and friends.

Ouch! The tech of autonomous vehicles is getting close to eliminating “truck-driving” as a profession, so sorry.

 

[Ana the Ist]

At the outset, they only wanted things run by "property owners," which has translated into the current love for using arms of the government, like law enforcement, for "protection of property rights." That's one reason why you'll hear the whining and screaming about trespassing when a black or brown person is the target of discrimination. Property, something that was once withheld from people of color, is the ultimate weapon to wield against a black person living freely. Because what often happens is when the reason for discrimination is defeated, then it's, "Well, you're trespassing and I will have the police remove you!"

I can't even tell what this ridiculous argument is supposed to be....

Are you saying black people should be given property? Or that if you're black, we should rewrite laws so you don't have to respect property laws (which are about 98% of laws)?

 

[Ana the Ist]

As a general rule...anyone asking you to support something they cannot define should be denied and ignored. If you lend them your support, you may find that they meant something you don't.

Reparations aren't magically exempt from this. The people who want support for reparations should explain what they mean.