Sparagmos

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I once literally had someone tell me "a white person with nary a nickel to their name still has more privilege than a black person with a mansion".
My little brother literally used to tell me when we were playing Star Wars that princess Lea couldn’t fly the millennium falcon because girls can’t fly space ships.

Fortunately, 6 year olds don’t decide who can be astronauts and my little brother now thinks I’m a badass female leader in my field. (Since we are posting irrelevant opinions from random people.)
 
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Ironhold

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My little brother literally used to tell me when we were playing Star Wars that princess Lea couldn’t fly the millennium falcon because girls can’t fly space ships.

Fortunately, 6 year olds don’t decide who can be astronauts and my little brother now thinks I’m a badass female leader in my field. (Since we are posting irrelevant opinions from random people.)

So then do you agree, yes or no, with what I was told about privilege?
 
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Sparagmos

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So then do you agree, yes or no, with what I was told about privilege?
I said their opinion was random and irrelevant. We aren’t talking about “privilege,” we are talking about “white privileged” The total privilege a person has is a larger equation which includes financial privilege. Why don’t you read the sources provided so you at least understand the basic concept. You might find that you agree, as someone who can understand what it’s like to have less privilege than able bodied folks?
 
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rjs330

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White privilege simply means that if you were not white, things would be even worse for you. It’s relative. So as white people, there are just things we never have to deal with, like being denied a mortgage because of racial discrimination, or being followed in a store because of race. We don’t get racially profiled. There are lots of types of privilege and being able bodied is also a type of privilege. Being born into wealth is another type of privilege.

But we have laws against this. The whole white privilege is just nonsense. We have laws that protect against discrimination. Does it happen? sure and companies have been fined and charged for it and rightfully so. But to say the whites have so much more privilege is ridiculous. Today blacks have the same opportunities as whites.
 
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SummerMadness

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And as far as reparations are concerned I vote that the ones that had slaves and Jim Crowe laws be the ones to pay. So any Democrat in the slave states are the ones that have to pay. The north and Republicans already paid with blood and laws.
You're arguing that the South should pay reparations, okay. That has nothing to do with political affiliation.
 
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Sparagmos

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But we have laws against this. The whole white privilege is just nonsense. We have laws that protect against discrimination. Does it happen? sure and companies have been fined and charged for it and rightfully so. But to say the whites have so much more privilege is ridiculous. Today blacks have the same opportunities as whites.

Then why is the average wealth for white families seven times that of black families?
The racial wealth gap: How African-Americans have been shortchanged out of the materials to build wealth

And why do people with “white” sounding names get more job interviews?
Minorities Who 'Whiten' Job Resumes Get More Interviews

https://www.povertyactionlab.org/si...ent on Labor Market Discrimination Sep 04.pdf

And why are black CEO’s so rare?
raceAhead: Only Three Black CEOs in the Fortune 500

You say discrimination happens, and then say blacks have the same opportunities. How is that possible?
 
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Sparagmos

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And as far as reparations are concerned I vote that the ones that had slaves and Jim Crowe laws be the ones to pay. So any Democrat in the slave states are the ones that have to pay. The north and Republicans already paid with blood and laws.
Are you sure you don’t want to rethink that?
 
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iluvatar5150

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And as far as reparations are concerned I vote that the ones that had slaves and Jim Crowe laws be the ones to pay. So any Democrat in the slave states are the ones that have to pay. The north and Republicans already paid with blood and laws.

lol wut? What do you think Jim Crow laws were?

Just one example, redlining, happened across the country and it was done at least partly at the behest of the federal government.
 
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rjs330

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You're arguing that the South should pay reparations, okay. That has nothing to do with political affiliation.

Of course it does. It was the Democrats of the south that owned and supported slaves AND they were the ones who had the JimCrowe laws. It's the southern Democrats that ought to pay. Leave the rest out of it. The Republicans supported the war to end slavery and the north bled and died for it. They paid in blood which is worth far more than money. The south lost slavery so they found other ways to segregate the blacks through their laws. Democrats did that.
 
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Of course it does. It was the Democrats of the south that owned and supported slaves AND they were the ones who had the JimCrowe laws. It's the southern Democrats that ought to pay. Leave the rest out of it. The Republicans supported the war to end slavery and the north bled and died for it. They paid in blood which is worth far more than money. The south lost slavery so they found other ways to segregate the blacks through their laws. Democrats did that.

Is it possible to have one conversation without these asinine games? They're not clever. They're not informative or well-informed. They're obnoxious. And most-importantly, they're just flat-out wrong.

No, it wasn't just southern Democrats who had Jim Crow laws. As I pointed out, redlining and other racist housing policies existed across the country, some of which were implemented at the federal level. Sundown towns existed across the country. Segregated schools and anti-miscegenation laws existed in the north. The US military wasn't officially desegregated until 1948.

All of you guys flogging this dead horse do nothing but obfuscate the issue and give the impression that you're sandbagging for racists. Is that really the image you want to portray?
 
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Redac

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Of course it does. It was the Democrats of the south that owned and supported slaves AND they were the ones who had the JimCrowe laws. It's the southern Democrats that ought to pay. Leave the rest out of it. The Republicans supported the war to end slavery and the north bled and died for it. They paid in blood which is worth far more than money. The south lost slavery so they found other ways to segregate the blacks through their laws. Democrats did that.
I hope one day people will stop trying to use the "Dems are the real racists!" argument seriously. Do you not realize that it goes nowhere?
 
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Ana the Ist

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Headline should read "Coates Builds Strawman in Response to Salient Point".

McConnell makes a valid point about the relative impossibility and injustice of reparations for slavery. Coates responded with an irrelevant point about racist policies that were more recent.

They need to decide whether they want reparations for slavery or reparations for a more general idea of systemic racism.
 
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SummerMadness

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Of course it does. It was the Democrats of the south that owned and supported slaves AND they were the ones who had the JimCrowe laws. It's the southern Democrats that ought to pay. Leave the rest out of it. The Republicans supported the war to end slavery and the north bled and died for it. They paid in blood which is worth far more than money. The south lost slavery so they found other ways to segregate the blacks through their laws. Democrats did that.
Why do people keep making this ridiculous argument? Racism is an American problem. It's not the Democratic Party, it's not the Republican Party, it's not the Whigs, it's not the Federalists, it's an American problem. An American problem perpetrated and perpetuated by federal, state and local governments with multiple political parties in power.

When people make this "Democrats were the racists and Republicans fought racism" argument it shows a great lack of respect for the people that you're talking to because you believe they are too stupid to recognize shifts in political ideology across American history. There's a reason why the Confederate flag and most racists find their home in the Republican Party nowadays, but that's besides the point, as you believe people are dumb and should recognize the racism we see today as connected to something that happened in the past (we won't even get into the irony of demanding people follow a current political ideology based on something in the past while telling them to ignore the past a la segregation and slavery).
 
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SummerMadness

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Of course it does. It was the Democrats of the south that owned and supported slaves AND they were the ones who had the JimCrowe laws. It's the southern Democrats that ought to pay. Leave the rest out of it. The Republicans supported the war to end slavery and the north bled and died for it. They paid in blood which is worth far more than money. The south lost slavery so they found other ways to segregate the blacks through their laws. Democrats did that.
The problem with your argument, although it's not a real argument, is that the South tends to have the most racism in the United States... the South is mostly Republican. If either major political party is in power and racism still continues, it's more about the geography (i.e., the South has many racist residents) as opposed to their political ideology.

I think the funny part about this poor diversion is that only one person expressed his admiration for white nationalists and he's not a member of the Democratic Party.
 
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Ana the Ist

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The reason why this never gets past a "general approval" for reparations is that it would be extremely racist to institute.

As McConnell pointed out....who benefits and why? Obviously if your parents immigrated here from Uganda in the 80s you probably aren't getting a dime....since laws were in place to protect you from discrimination.

So are we going by a % of African DNA? Probably not....since inevitably that would lead to people like this applying and qualifying for reparations.

How white supremacists respond when their DNA says they’re not ‘white’

That leaves us with some....quite disgustingly racist standard of "blood quantum" wherein one needs a certain number of direct black ancestors in their family tree. If this doesn't sound immediately reprehensible to you....imagine being black, applying for reparations, and being told you aren't "black enough" to qualify.

I suppose we could use the old "I know it when I see it" test....hold up a palette of swatches to people's skin and say "everyone darker than mocha latte" applies. Pretty disgusting and racist.

Then of course....once implemented, why not entertain the arguments of everyone who ever faced widespread discrimination against their race? The Irish, the Italians, the Polish, the Jewish, and so on....and so on...

I remember a time when I was a child and the racial stereotype against Indians was an association with convenience store clerks (think Apu from the Simpsons) and now people tend to think doctor or surgeon instead. Yet who am I to say they haven't faced widespread discrimination?

At the end of the day, there's no good way to do this that isn't simply the creation of a new system of racism. We can either agree these things shouldn't matter, or we can be racists.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Headline should read "Coates Builds Strawman in Response to Salient Point".

McConnell makes a valid point about the relative impossibility and injustice of reparations for slavery. Coates responded with an irrelevant point about racist policies that were more recent.

They need to decide whether they want reparations for slavery or reparations for a more general idea of systemic racism.

McConnell didn't make a valid point - he obfuscated by pretending that the issue ended at emancipation. As I've already pointed out in this thread, the bill under discussion also addresses the Jim Crow era.
 
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iluvatar5150

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The reason why this never gets past a "general approval" for reparations is that it would be extremely racist to institute.

As McConnell pointed out....who benefits and why? Obviously if your parents immigrated here from Uganda in the 80s you probably aren't getting a dime....since laws were in place to protect you from discrimination.

So are we going by a % of African DNA? Probably not....since inevitably that would lead to people like this applying and qualifying for reparations.

How white supremacists respond when their DNA says they’re not ‘white’

That leaves us with some....quite disgustingly racist standard of "blood quantum" wherein one needs a certain number of direct black ancestors in their family tree. If this doesn't sound immediately reprehensible to you....imagine being black, applying for reparations, and being told you aren't "black enough" to qualify.

I suppose we could use the old "I know it when I see it" test....hold up a palette of swatches to people's skin and say "everyone darker than mocha latte" applies. Pretty disgusting and racist.

Then of course....once implemented, why not entertain the arguments of everyone who ever faced widespread discrimination against their race? The Irish, the Italians, the Polish, the Jewish, and so on....and so on...

I remember a time when I was a child and the racial stereotype against Indians was an association with convenience store clerks (think Apu from the Simpsons) and now people tend to think doctor or surgeon instead. Yet who am I to say they haven't faced widespread discrimination?

At the end of the day, there's no good way to do this that isn't simply the creation of a new system of racism. We can either agree these things shouldn't matter, or we can be racists.

Reparations doesn't have to mean cash payments. Off the top of my head, I can think of a number of programs that would target black communities but wouldn't be so exclusive as to create "a new system of racism".
 
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Reparations doesn't have to mean cash payments. Off the top of my head, I can think of a number of programs that would target black communities but wouldn't be so exclusive as to create "a new system of racism".

Is the result of these programs a systemic racism that provides wealth building opportunities for some races and denies those opportunities to others?
 
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