Systemic racism in the USA: Are whites "guiltier" if they had slavery in their past?

[kdm1984]

My husband and I are both white. He and his family are currently, and generally, less religious and more progressive than mine, but his (historically) is MUCH more Southern and slave-owning than mine. In fact, all his family has Southern and slave-owning past, whereas mine doesn't on either paternal or maternal side.

My dad's family are all WASPs and Irish/Scottish from the upper northeast (Massachusetts, Vermont, etc.) who never held or owned slaves. My mom's are all Germans/Norwegians/Hutterites from the upper midwest (Minnesota, South Dakota, etc.) who came to the US in the 1800s and also never had slaves.

In recent years, I've noticed a change from individualistic and historical focus of racism, toward more 'systemic' focus. The idea is, it doesn't really matter that my husband's family was historically slave-owning, whereas mine were in regions where slavery never occurred. The focus now is, both nonetheless benefited from 'white privilege,' so it doesn't matter if one's white families had slaves or not. What matters now is, if they are allies, or at least voting Democrat in greater numbers. In that case, my husband's family is generally more progressive now, even if they have purely Southern and slave-owning roots.

Do you agree with that perspective: is it better to have a family that "currently" is overall more progressive and voting Democrat, even if that family is purely slave-owning and Southern in its past, than it is to come from a family with no slavery, even if that family is currently slightly more third-party or Republican in its voting?

 

[Holy Athanasius]

Hello.

As by the holy decree and authoritative teaching of the Church from sacred scripture(Ezekiel 18:20), I am of the mind that you are only responsible for your own actions due to free will, and that you are not responsible for the actions of your fathers or forefathers. You are not a racist(I hope), and you are not a proponent of slavery. So how could you be guilty of this?

However - is it also not true that white people have generationally attained more wealth due to the lot of their parents for the past generations? Yes it is true. If you are black, it is far more likely you are born into a poorer neighborhood, it is also more likely that you shall experience racism.

If you are white, it is far more likely that you are born into a wealthier, or at the very least a normal neighborhood and financial situation.

This is what liberals call white privilege(I don't use this term as I am not a liberal), and they are right that this situation is the truth of the world.


Does this mean you should feel guilty for who you are, and where you grew up and become a self-hating white person as liberal young people at college campuses do? No I do not think so, there is nothing to be either guilty or proud of since you did not choose where you were born. You only can speak for yourself as an individual person.

Should we be aware that black people are still born into a circumstance that is more difficult than others due to the consequence of their generational inheritance of poverty? Yes we should be aware of this and oppose it by virtue of charity. How we solve this issue may be up for debate, but we should wish for them no longer to be so affected by the consequences of oppression which affects them both financially and psychologically even today.

 

[prodromos]

The source of those black African slaves was other black Africans who captured them and sold them to whites.

 

[sandman]

I would personally vote for the party that voted to end slavery ....
No one... white, black, yellow, or any other... had the choice as to what they were born. This is a social issue spurred by the god of this word to cause contention and division.
Allowing your heritage to determine who you are is conforming to this world, and being manipulated by it’s god ….You are what the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ say's you are ... Throw your shoulders back and hold your head up high you are a son or daughter of the most high God!

 

[Desk trauma]

The source of those black African slaves was other black Africans who captured them and sold them to whites.

Therefore?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Guilt for slavery is all in the past. No one deserves guilt for actions carried out 100 years before their birth.

Currently, the issue is continued racial inequity. We do have an obligation to face the facts squarely and honestly of how history and institutions have produced this condition. One can seek to reduce or eliminate these injustices, or turn a blind eye to them (or enjoy them).

 

[Bradskii]

The source of those black African slaves was other black Africans who captured them and sold them to whites.

The point being..?

 

[Hank77]

Hello.

As by the holy decree and authoritative teaching of the Church from sacred scripture(Ezekiel 18:20), I am of the mind that you are only responsible for your own actions due to free will, and that you are not responsible for the actions of your fathers or forefathers. You are not a racist(I hope), and you are not a proponent of slavery. So how could you be guilty of this?

However - is it also not true that white people have generationally attained more wealth due to the lot of their parents for the past generations? Yes it is true. If you are black, it is far more likely you are born into a poorer neighborhood, it is also more likely that you shall experience racism.

If you are white, it is far more likely that you are born into a wealthier, or at the very least a normal neighborhood and financial situation.

This is what liberals call white privilege(I don't use this term as I am not a liberal), and they are right that this situation is the truth of the world.


Does this mean you should feel guilty for who you are, and where you grew up and become a self-hating white person as liberal young people at college campuses do? No I do not think so, there is nothing to be either guilty or proud of since you did not choose where you were born. You only can speak for yourself as an individual person.

Should we be aware that black people are still born into a circumstance that is more difficult than others due to the consequence of their generational inheritance of poverty? Yes we should be aware of this and oppose it by virtue of charity. How we solve this issue may be up for debate, but we should wish for them no longer to be so affected by the consequences of oppression which affects them both financially and psychologically even today.

This is the most articulate, truthful, and compassionate post on this subject in this forum that I have had the pleasure of reading.
God Bless

 

[Occams Barber]

Hello.

As by the holy decree and authoritative teaching of the Church from sacred scripture(Ezekiel 18:20), I am of the mind that you are only responsible for your own actions due to free will, and that you are not responsible for the actions of your fathers or forefathers. You are not a racist(I hope), and you are not a proponent of slavery. So how could you be guilty of this?

However - is it also not true that white people have generationally attained more wealth due to the lot of their parents for the past generations? Yes it is true. If you are black, it is far more likely you are born into a poorer neighborhood, it is also more likely that you shall experience racism.

If you are white, it is far more likely that you are born into a wealthier, or at the very least a normal neighborhood and financial situation.

This is what liberals call white privilege(I don't use this term as I am not a liberal), and they are right that this situation is the truth of the world.


Does this mean you should feel guilty for who you are, and where you grew up and become a self-hating white person as liberal young people at college campuses do? No I do not think so, there is nothing to be either guilty or proud of since you did not choose where you were born. You only can speak for yourself as an individual person.

Should we be aware that black people are still born into a circumstance that is more difficult than others due to the consequence of their generational inheritance of poverty? Yes we should be aware of this and oppose it by virtue of charity. How we solve this issue may be up for debate, but we should wish for them no longer to be so affected by the consequences of oppression which affects them both financially and psychologically even today.

Thank you for a measured and thoughtful response to a complex question.

I can only add that, over and above individual free will/responsibility, there is such a thing as corporate responsibility.

Like commercial companies, societies need to accept collective responsibility for repairing the results of past actions.

OB

 

[dqhall]

My husband and I are both white. He and his family are currently, and generally, less religious and more progressive than mine, but his (historically) is MUCH more Southern and slave-owning than mine. In fact, all his family has Southern and slave-owning past, whereas mine doesn't on either paternal or maternal side.

My dad's family are all WASPs and Irish/Scottish from the upper northeast (Massachusetts, Vermont, etc.) who never held or owned slaves. My mom's are all Germans/Norwegians/Hutterites from the upper midwest (Minnesota, South Dakota, etc.) who came to the US in the 1800s and also never had slaves.

In recent years, I've noticed a change from individualistic and historical focus of racism, toward more 'systemic' focus. The idea is, it doesn't really matter that my husband's family was historically slave-owning, whereas mine were in regions where slavery never occurred. The focus now is, both nonetheless benefited from 'white privilege,' so it doesn't matter if one's white families had slaves or not. What matters now is, if they are allies, or at least voting Democrat in greater numbers. In that case, my husband's family is generally more progressive now, even if they have purely Southern and slave-owning roots.

Do you agree with that perspective: is it better to have a family that "currently" is overall more progressive and voting Democrat, even if that family is purely slave-owning and Southern in its past, than it is to come from a family with no slavery, even if that family is currently slightly more third-party or Republican in its voting?

You sign your own name on legal documents, not your parents’ names.

My parents were from Indiana. My mother wrote a newspaper article about a famous Concord, Massachusetts writer named Henry David Thoreau. He wrote a book about his solitary life living in a cabin at Walden Pond. It became a classic. Mom lived near Concord and researched the Thoreau family and their life in Concord. They were against owning slaves. Most people in Concord did not own slaves as they were Christian.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Most people in Concord did not own slaves as they were Christian.

Many people in the south owned slaves as they were Christian.

 

[Ken-1122]

In recent years, I've noticed a change from individualistic and historical focus of racism, toward more 'systemic' focus. The idea is, it doesn't really matter that my husband's family was historically slave-owning, whereas mine were in regions where slavery never occurred. The focus now is, both nonetheless benefited from 'white privilege,' so it doesn't matter if one's white families had slaves or not. What matters now is, if they are allies, or at least voting Democrat in greater numbers. In that case, my husband's family is generally more progressive now, even if they have purely Southern and slave-owning roots.

(Ken)
Sounds like an absurd attempt to convince people that if they don’t vote democratic, they are racist. Sorta like I’ve heard some on the right claim if you don’t vote republican, you aren’t Christian.
As far as “white privilege”, In the US there is White privilege, Black privilege, Brown privilege, Male, female, tall, short, gay straight privileges as well; it doesn’t matter what or who you are, whatever it is about you that is unique, there will be times when it will work to your advantage, and times when it will work to your disadvantage. The problem is (and I know too many my people are guilty of this) when non-white people will point at white people and proclaim white privilege while ignoring their privilege, or not even noticing they even have privilege. As a black man, I would prefer my black privilege over your white privilege any day.

 

[Neutral Observer]

The problem is (and I know too many my people are guilty of this) when non-white people will point at white people and proclaim white privilege while ignoring their privilege, or not even noticing they even have privilege.

 

[godisagardener]

Do you agree with that perspective: is it better to have a family that "currently" is overall more progressive and voting Democrat, even if that family is purely slave-owning and Southern in its past, than it is to come from a family with no slavery, even if that family is currently slightly more third-party or Republican in its voting?

I read somewhere once (and these may not be the exact words) that a man who dwells in the past forfeits the present and robs himself of the future. It sounds like you're more preoccupied with where your family and your husband's family came from, who they were or weren't and what they did or didn't do, than you are with the who, what and why of the present. You are not your parents or grandparents.

My grandparents were poor southern white folks who were by no means close to being slave-owners; "slave-owning" and "southern" are not synonyms. They were simple sharecroppers who managed to eke out a living farming a few acres of someone else's land. They didn't make me democrat or republican, conservative or progressive, religious or non-religious. There comes a point in our lives when we make those decisions for ourselves, consciously or not.

Isaiah 43:18-19 says "Remember not the former things, nor consider the things of old. Behold, I am doing a new thing; now it springs forth, do you not perceive it? I will make a way in the wilderness and rivers in the desert."

The Israelites had a choice. They could dwell in the past, the good and the bad of it; or they could look forward to a new and brighter future. We have the same choice.

I don't believe it's "better" to vote one way or the other based on what a person's family was or did in the past. A person should vote with their conscience, for good over evil, for right over wrong, considering today's problems, needs and benefits.

 

[dqhall]

Many people in the south owned slaves as they were Christian.

Treat others the way you would want to be treated. Do not keep your workers in chains without an adequate wage. You do not seem to understand there is a difference between calling yourself a Christian and being Christian.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Treat others the way you would want to be treated. Do not keep your workers in chains without an adequate wage. You do not seem to understand there is a difference between calling yourself a Christian and being Christian.

You don't seem to understand "no true scotsman".

 

[J_B_]

Most people in Concord did not own slaves as they were Christian.

Many people in the south owned slaves as they were Christian.

It was not my intent, but due to circumstances I studied a lot of black history during my history masters program. @dqhall may want to look into books like New England Bound that covers the history of slavery in New England and why it eventually disappeared. The Puritans and Separatists who settled there were not originally opposed to slavery, and so morality played only a small role in slavery's disappearance from the northern colonies. After the Civil War as blacks began migrating north, racism in the north was a fairly common thing. The difference was that the racism was not as strongly institutionalized as it was in the south. It was more an individual opinion.

With that said, the Quakers (and later the Congregationalists) did have a huge influence on the rise of abolitionism in the U.S. As such, there was a significant religious contribution to ending slavery in the U.S., and those who wag their fingers at Christians for being naughty misunderstand the complexity of the slavery issue and the role Christianity played in ending it just as much as those who want to think no 'true' Christians ever owned slaves.

[edit] FYI, I agree with others with respect to the OP that @Holy Athanasius had a very good post.

 

[Estrid]

My husband and I are both white. He and his family are currently, and generally, less religious and more progressive than mine, but his (historically) is MUCH more Southern and slave-owning than mine. In fact, all his family has Southern and slave-owning past, whereas mine doesn't on either paternal or maternal side.

My dad's family are all WASPs and Irish/Scottish from the upper northeast (Massachusetts, Vermont, etc.) who never held or owned slaves. My mom's are all Germans/Norwegians/Hutterites from the upper midwest (Minnesota, South Dakota, etc.) who came to the US in the 1800s and also never had slaves.

In recent years, I've noticed a change from individualistic and historical focus of racism, toward more 'systemic' focus. The idea is, it doesn't really matter that my husband's family was historically slave-owning, whereas mine were in regions where slavery never occurred. The focus now is, both nonetheless benefited from 'white privilege,' so it doesn't matter if one's white families had slaves or not. What matters now is, if they are allies, or at least voting Democrat in greater numbers. In that case, my husband's family is generally more progressive now, even if they have purely Southern and slave-owning roots.

Do you agree with that perspective: is it better to have a family that "currently" is overall more progressive and voting Democrat, even if that family is purely slave-owning and Southern in its past, than it is to come from a family with no slavery, even if that family is currently slightly more third-party or Republican in its voting?

What. "Systemic racism "?

 

[MehGuy]

I found out a few years ago that some family members on my mother's side owned slaves. The family history of that line is full of pretty nasty sadistic temperaments with stories of brutal treatment going back generations. Not to mention full of preachers which is a chilling sign in my opinion. Impossible to say but it wouldn't surprise me if my ancestors who owned slaves were extremely harsh slave owners.

If I learned this news several years ago the white guilt would have overwhelmed me. Now.. thanks to progressives I don't feel such guilt white anymore. I wouldn't have blamed the slaves if they killed some of my ancestors, lol. But I see no reason to feel guilty about it now.

 

[timothyu]

If you are white, it is far more likely that you are born into a wealthier, or at the very least a normal neighborhood and financial situation.

This is what liberals call white privilege(I don't use this term as I am not a liberal), and they are right that this situation is the truth of the world.

How is this logical. Why is it that other races want to flock to what has always been seen as predominantly white civilizations/nations rather than the other way around. Isn't this a case of 'if you build it they will come'? Are not the builders always better off? And as far a slavery goes, find me a race that has never practiced it. What we have now is political and not practical.