Systema and Orthodoxy

D+C · Aug 8, 2013

I'm a keen martial artist, and coincidentally one of the best trainers I know has recently been studying Systema with Vladimir Vasiliev. I am intrigued by the Orthodox roots of this martial art and was wondering if anyone had come across it? Especially as I understand this trainer is introducing it into the martial arts sessions I go to!

Russian Martial Art. Systema by Vladimir Vasiliev

ArmyMatt · Aug 8, 2013

I dunno it's history, but I saw an article that said that it could be the most effective martial art created.

Trying_to_be_Orthodox · Aug 9, 2013

@D+C

I am intrigued by the Orthodox roots of this martial art - dont think so. Magic and occults roots are bigger in this "systema". IMHO

@ArmyMatt
effective martial art created - all i saw about similar kinds of "martial" arts has similar end:
ÐÐµÑÐºÐ¾Ð½ÑÐ°ÐºÑÐ½ÑÐ¹ Ð±Ð¾Ð¹, ÑÐ°Ð·Ð¾Ð±Ð»Ð°ÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ðµ - YouTube

ArmyMatt · Aug 9, 2013

@ArmyMatt
effective martial art created - all i saw about similar kinds of "martial" arts has similar end:

what do you mean?

Cappadocious · Aug 9, 2013

Systema has a reputation for fraudulent practices, dead training, and shoddy "quality control".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YzkOTsB7-M

This level of fraud is inherently anti-Christian.

That said, as Systema is a recent creation, it is possible to find a "good Systema gym" which teaches an amalgamation of contemporary effective martial arts like boxing and wrestling.

The question of whether or not a Christian should spend significant amounts of money on martial arts training in our day and age is another matter entirely. The notion of "Orthodox martial arts" as such is nonsensical, just like the notion of an "Orthodox AK-47" or "Orthodox rhythmic gymnastics team".

ArmyMatt said:
what do you mean?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imjmLWj5WCU

Trying_to_be_Orthodox · Aug 9, 2013

@Armymatt
in short:
I mean that representative of this "systema" (or any other from a lot of suppa-puppa-mega system with roots from ancient legendary times of Russia, China,Africa, Egypt...and etc) in standart sparring will lose to very simple, classic, banal loser-boxer, kickboxer, mma fighter. Of course, he can win but in case of using methods of box, sambo and etc classic styles.

Just by the way, confessor of our partriach definded this systema as occult system which has nothing familiar with Orthodoxy.
[Ð’Ð¸Ð´ÐµÐ¾] Â«ÐÐ° Ð¾ÐºÐºÑƒÐ»ÑŒÑ‚Ð½ÑƒÑŽ ÑÐ¸ÑÑ‚ÐµÐ¼Ñƒ Ñ Ð±Ð»Ð°Ð³Ð¾ÑÐ»Ð¾Ð²ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð½Ðµ Ð´Ð°Ð²Ð°Ð», Ð¸ Ð´Ð°Ð²Ð°Ñ‚ÑŒ Ð½Ðµ Ð¼Ð¾Ð³Â» (only in Russian)

D+C · Aug 10, 2013

Let's put aside the martial effectiveness of the style, I have other sites I go to for that! Disappointed to hear I may have been misled about the Orthodox origins of the style. A practitioner, and student of Vasiliev, who is well respected in the MA world following a Bullshido throw down, posted this video in response to questions about the Orthodox roots of the style. Can someone who speaks Russian interpret it for me? The chap who isn't a priest is Ryabko, Vasiliev's trainer. Ð¿ÑÐ°Ð²Ð´Ð° Ð¾ ÑÐ¸ÑÑÐµÐ¼Ðµ Ð ÑÐ±ÐºÐ¾ - YouTube

ArmyMatt · Aug 10, 2013

Trying_to_be_Orthodox said:
@Armymatt
in short:
I mean that representative of this "systema" (or any other from a lot of suppa-puppa-mega system with roots from ancient legendary times of Russia, China,Africa, Egypt...and etc) in standart sparring will lose to very simple, classic, banal loser-boxer, kickboxer, mma fighter. Of course, he can win but in case of using methods of box, sambo and etc classic styles.

Just by the way, confessor of our partriach definded this systema as occult system which has nothing familiar with Orthodoxy.
[ÐÐ¸Ð´ÐµÐ¾] Â«ÐÐ° Ð¾ÐºÐºÑÐ»ÑÑÐ½ÑÑ ÑÐ¸ÑÑÐµÐ¼Ñ Ñ Ð±Ð»Ð°Ð³Ð¾ÑÐ»Ð¾Ð²ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð½Ðµ Ð´Ð°Ð²Ð°Ð», Ð¸ Ð´Ð°Ð²Ð°ÑÑ Ð½Ðµ Ð¼Ð¾Ð³Â» (only in Russian)

we're not talking about martial arts that have their roots in the occult like Buddhism or other kind of paganism, so I don't follow. that first vid did not make any sense with the thread.

Cappadocious · Aug 11, 2013

ArmyMatt said:
we're not talking about martial arts that have their roots in the occult like Buddhism or other kind of paganism, so I don't follow .

Where do you think Systema comes from?

Greco-Roman Wrestling and Boxing: "Pagan origin".
Judo and Jujitsu: Buddhist/ and/or Shinto.
Sambo: See above.

ArmyMatt · Aug 11, 2013

Cappadocious said:
Where do you think Systema comes from?

Greco-Roman Wrestling and Boxing: "Pagan origin".
Judo and Jujitsu: Buddhist/ and/or Shinto.
Sambo: See above.

just because the moves come from a pagan culture, that does not mean the martial art is pagan unless it has spiritual connection to the original culture. I wrestled in high school and there was nothing pagan about it.

Cappadocious · Aug 11, 2013

ArmyMatt said:
just because the moves come from a pagan culture, that does not mean the martial art is pagan unless it has spiritual connection to the original culture. I wrestled in high school and there was nothing pagan about it.

The same goes for traditional asian martial arts, then.

ArmyMatt · Aug 12, 2013

Cappadocious said:
The same goes for traditional asian martial arts, then.

no one is talking about them

Cappadocious · Aug 12, 2013

Would you say that claiming the ability to knock people out without touching them using some sort of "energy" is occult?

ArmyMatt · Aug 12, 2013

Cappadocious said:
Would you say that claiming the ability to knock people out without touching them using some sort of "energy" is occult?

I would say so, dunno what that has to do with Russian martial arts

Cappadocious · Aug 12, 2013

Check out the video I posted which features systema practitioners pretending to do just that.

ikonographics · Aug 13, 2013

Looks downright demonic to me. Reminds me of this: Benny Hinn: Let the Bodies Hit the Floor - YouTube

Antony in Tx · Aug 13, 2013

Cappadocious said:
Would you say that claiming the ability to knock people out without touching them using some sort of "energy" is occult?

Depends on what you ate the night before!!!

Gxg (G²) · Aug 13, 2013

Intriguing

Trying_to_be_Orthodox · Aug 14, 2013

@Armymatt

we're not talking about martial arts that have... - you may be, i spoke about Systema.
"Arts" as from my video, as from Cappadocious, as from this Ð[bless and do not curse]Ð°Ð±Ð¾Ñ‚Ð° Ñ ÐºÑ€ÐµÑÑ‚Ð¾Ð¼ - YouTube have one same "trash" moment - "work without contact". Its not easy to discuss seriously martial art with this trashing. For me. ( I read a lot about systema years ago - my resume: not so good for my time and money).

If there is written marketing article about Orthodox roots, so it doesnt mean that these roots exists in reality excepts in "words on paper".

@D+C
Disappointed to hear - dont dissapoint, just dont pay much attention to "origins" of martial art (just marketing in most cases). "Look what they do, dont listen what they say". If you find systema can make profit for ur interests - which problems?

About video - Priest tells Rjabko is member "Board of Trustees of the constructing Church temple" (dont sure that google translated right) and both ask to donate on construction.

I have found better advertising video about systema - "Ð¡Ð¸Ð»ÑŒÐ½Ð° Ð¼Ð¾Ð»ÑÑ‰Ð¸Ñ…ÑÑ Ñ€ÑƒÐºÐ°." Ð”Ð¾ÐºÑƒÐ¼ÐµÐ½Ñ‚Ð°Ð»ÑŒÐ½Ñ‹Ð¹ Ñ„Ð¸Ð»ÑŒÐ¼. - YouTube There are a lot of "thanks" and etc nice words from different people including priests.

ArmyMatt · Aug 14, 2013

Cappadocious said:
Check out the video I posted which features systema practitioners pretending to do just that.

dang, those videos did not appear when I was posting earlier. nevermind what I said. yeah, if you can barely nick someone that is prolly demonic

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