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Syrian rebels enter Aleppo for first time in eight years during shock offensive

ThatRobGuy

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Are you proposing the US should have taken a different attitude toward the Syrian situation over the last decade. Or suggestions for the incoming Trump admin?
Ultimately, I'd like to see us stop meddling altogether. Our track record isn't great in that regard.

We've either helped install people who end up giving us heartburn later, or created destabilization and then bailed leaving massive power vacuums for the worst characters to fill.

Sadam Hussein was certainly "a bad guy", but we didn't do the people of that country any favors with our interventionism. We (and the region) would've been better off leaving him in power, and perhaps trying to persuade him change certain things in other ways.


As far as my recommendations for the incoming administration? You can work with a secularist economically, the same isn't true for a religious zealot. It's a lot easier to negotiate and make deals with someone who wants more in "life", than it is to negotiate with a person who thinks their "afterlife and all eternity" is riding on something.

In a nutshell, I do think it would've been easier to make deals with Assad than it would this rebel leader.

From a negotiation standpoint. "You're going to burn for all eternity if you don't do XYZ to a T" isn't a starting point one can work with and doesn't really allow for any middle ground. However, if a person isn't fixated on that, things like "hey, you relax these policies, and we'll see what we can do to lower export costs on XYZ" is something that could work.
 
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durangodawood

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Ultimately, I'd like to see us stop meddling altogether. Our track record isn't great in that regard.

We've either helped install people who end up giving us heartburn later, or created destabilization and then bailed leaving massive power vacuums for the worst characters to fill.

Sadam Hussein was certainly "a bad guy", but we didn't do the people of that country any favors with our interventionism. We (and the region) would've been better off leaving him in power, and perhaps trying to persuade him change certain things in other ways.
There's meddling..... and there's a full scale invasion and takeover and "nation building". Im definitely against the latter and was from the start when that debacle was fraudulently conceived.

As for meddling.... Im not convinced we should leave all the meddling up to an Iran-Hezbollah-Russia nexus. Maybe we should? Dont really know.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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There's meddling..... and there's a full scale invasion and takeover and "nation building". Im definitely against the latter and was from the start when that debacle was fraudulently conceived.

As for meddling.... Im not convinced we should leave all the meddling up to an Iran-Hezbollah-Russia nexus. Maybe we should? Dont really know.
With regards to middle eastern Islamic countries, the reality we're going to have to accept is that they don't like us, they don't want to like us, and religious/cultural differences preclude there being a real opportunity to change that. (at least in our lifetime)

That's what separates religiously driven differences from purely economic, territorial, or "past grudges" beefs.

If we were going to intervene or nose-in anywhere, our efforts and treasure would be better spent in places like Cuba, China, and N. Korea if I'm being honest.

It'd be easier to convince a communist to adopt market-based principles and "release their grip" a bit, than it would be to convince Islamists that they should introduce secular principles.

Like I mentioned before "life" vs. "Afterlife + eternity" are very different in their capacity to dictate the resolve of the parties involved.

The leaders of communistic regimes aren't under any impression that if they stray from the teachings of Marx, they'll suffer in hellfire for all of eternity. That concept is pretty much a "religious thing".
 
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Vambram

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ice President-elect JD Vance raised concerns on Sunday about the Syrian rebels who have ousted Syria's authoritarian leader Bashar Al-Assad, saying that some of the rebels are an "offshoot of ISIS."

Assad's regime collapsed this weekend after a stunning turnaround after nearly 14 years of conflict. The deposed Syrian leader reportedly fled the country as rebels took control of the major Syrian city of Homs as well as the capital Damascus.

Various rebel groups continue to operate in Syria, with different regional and international allies. The principle rebel group that has led the charge to depose Assad in recent days is Hay'at Tahrir al Sham (HTS), which came out of Al-Qaeda and is designated by the U.S. as a terrorist organization. HTS was formerly known as Al-Nusra Front.

"As President Trump said, this is not our fight and we should stay out of it," Vance wrote in Sunday X, formerly Twitter, post, commenting on the situation in Syria.

"Aside from that, opinions like the below make me nervous. The last time this guy was celebrating events in Syria we saw the mass slaughter of Christians and a refugee crisis that destabilized Europe," Vance, who is currently serving as a Republican senator for Ohio, wrote.

The vice president-elect's post shared comments from Josh Rogin, a Washington Post columnist who covers foreign policy and national security.

"Syria is free. The rebels won. The people liberated themselves from tyranny. Freedom won. Russia, Iran, Hezbollah & Assad lost. Historic. The road ahead for Syria won't be easy. But it will be better than the past. The world should celebrate Syria's liberation & help it succeed," Rogin wrote on X on Saturday.


In a follow-up post, Vance added, "Many of 'the rebels' are a literal offshoot of ISIS. One can hope they've moderated. Time will tell."

Newsweek reached out to the U.S. State Department for comment on Sunday morning.


What Rebels Have Said About Their Plans for Syria​

Like HTS, ISIS did emerge from Al-Qaeda, but the groups have been at odds in Syria. Critics of HTS have said the militant group will rule Syria as an extremist Islamist state. But Abu Mohammad al-Jolani, the leader of HTS, has said that his organization aims for all Syrians to coexist in unity.

"No one has the right to erase another group. These sects have coexisted in this region for hundreds of years, and no one has the right to eliminate them," Jolani told CNN in an interview this week.

Jolani was formerly a member of the Islamic State in Iraq, which eventually morphed in ISIS. He founded Al-Nusra Front in 2012, but it became HTS in 2017 as the group tried to moderate its image.

"People who fear Islamic governance either have seen incorrect implementations of it or do not understand it properly," he told CNN.

While the majority of Syrians are Muslim, the country has vibrant and sizable communities of Christians, Alawites and Druze, among others. Assad's family is part of the Alawite minority.
 
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Vambram

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Israeli Air Force Launches Widespread Strikes Across Syria, Targeting Weaponry at Key Military Sites

The Israeli Air Force (IAF) conducted widespread airstrikes across Syria on Sunday, targeting critical military sites and weaponry deemed a direct threat to Israel’s security.
Israel claimed that these strategic strikes aimed to neutralize the potential transfer of advanced weaponry into the hands of terrorist factions and hostile entities.
According to reports from The Times of Israel, the Israeli strikes hit ammunition and weapons depots at the Khalkhalah airbase in Suwayda, military positions in the Daraa Governorate, and the Mezzeh airbase in Damascus.
Later in the day, additional strikes targeted the Mezzeh airbase—a hub of Syria’s security infrastructure located in the Kafr Sousa suburb of Damascus—along with the Scientific Studies and Research Center, suspected of facilitating weapons development, and a central square in Damascus housing intelligence and customs offices.
The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) reportedly have been tracking advanced weapon transfers in Syria, working to prevent these arms from reaching Hezbollah or other hostile entities that could pose a direct danger to Israel.

 
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Vambram

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U.S. Central Command

@CENTCOM

.. U.S. Central Command (CENTCOM) forces conducted dozens of precision airstrikes targeting known ISIS camps and operatives in central Syria, Dec. 8. The strikes against the ISIS leaders, operatives, and camps were conducted as part of the ongoing mission to disrupt, degrade, and defeat ISIS, in order to prevent the terrorist group from conducting external operations and to ensure that ISIS does not seek to take advantage of the current situation to reconstitute in central Syria. The operation struck over 75 targets using multiple U.S. Air Force assets, including B-52s, F-15s, and A-10s.

Battle damage assessments are underway, and there are no indications of civilian casualties. CENTCOM, together with allies and partners in the region, will continue to carry out operations to degrade ISIS operational capabilities even during this dynamic period in Syria. "There should be no doubt - we will not allow ISIS to reconstitute and take advantage of the current situation in Syria," said General Michael Erik Kurilla, "All organizations in Syria should know that we will hold them accountable if they partner with or support ISIS in any way."

 
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Vambram

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What did Trump say about Syria?

President-elect Donald Trump in a Truth Social post on Saturday called the insurgent push "unprecedented," but maintained that the U.S. "should have nothing to do with it."

"Opposition fighters in Syria, in an unprecedented move, have totally taken over numerous cities, in a highly coordinated offensive, and are now on the outskirts of Damascus, obviously preparing to make a very big move toward taking out Assad," the president-elect wrote.

He added: "Russia, because they are so tied up in Ukraine, and with the loss there of over 600,000 soldiers, seems incapable of stopping this literal march through Syria, a country they have protected for years. This is where former President Obama refused to honor his commitment of protecting the RED LINE IN THE SAND, and all hell broke out, with Russia stepping in."

"But now they are, like possibly Assad himself, being forced out, and it may actually be the best thing that can happen to them. There was never much of a benefit in Syria for Russia, other than to make Obama look really stupid," he continued.

Trump concluded his post: "In any event, Syria is a mess, but is not our friend, & THE UNITED STATES SHOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. THIS IS NOT OUR FIGHT. LET IT PLAY OUT. DO NOT GET INVOLVED!"

After Damascus fell to the rebels and Assad fled to safety in Russia, Trump made another post, this time addressing Russian President Vladimir Putin and urging a ceasefire with Ukraine while referencing Syria.

"Assad is gone. He has fled his country. His protector, Russia, Russia, Russia, led by Vladimir Putin, was not interested in protecting him any longer. There was no reason for Russia to be there in the first place. They lost all interest in Syria because of Ukraine, where close to 600,000 Russian soldiers lay wounded or dead, in a war that should never have started, and could go on forever.

"Russia and Iran are in a weakened state right now, one because of Ukraine and a bad economy, the other because of Israel and its fighting success. Likewise, Zelensky and Ukraine would like to make a deal and stop the madness. They have ridiculously lost 400,000 soldiers, and many more civilians."

The president-elect concluded: "There should be an immediate ceasefire and negotiations should begin. Too many lives are being so needlessly wasted, too many families destroyed, and if it keeps going, it can turn into something much bigger, and far worse. I know Vladimir well. This is his time to act. China can help. The World is waiting!"

Update 12/8/24, 4:40 p.m. ET: This article has been updated with additional information.

 
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wing2000

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Assad is a fine dictator. He kept a good country. Freedom of religion. That was what made the extremists angry, positive treatment for Christians.

I do believe Assad cared about the people, far more than the terrorists do.

Do you believe using chemical weapons against his own citizens represents caring?
I suggest you review the 50+ year rule of the Assads before making such naive comments.
 
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wing2000

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Ultimately, I'd like to see us stop meddling altogether. Our track record isn't great in that regard.

...I agree, but in this case, it's Russia and Iran learning that lesson.
AFAIK, the US has limited it's actions to combatting elements of IS, with latest attacks occurring on Sunday.

I'm curious to see what happens with the Russian military bases. My guess is they will abandon the air base and atttempt to keep their naval base at Tartus.

The head of the Russian parliament’s defense committee Andrei Kartapolov said earlier Monday that Russia’s bases in Syria were secure and that its troops were not under threat, Interfax reported. An unnamed Kremlin source also told Russian state media on Sunday that Syrian opposition leaders had agreed to guarantee the security of Russian military bases and diplomatic institutions.
But Peskov’s comments suggest that any deal to preserve Russia’s presence at its two main strategic facilities in Syria — the Hmeimim air base in Latakia province and its naval base in Tartus — was yet to be reached, adding to the uncertainty over Russia’s position there.


 
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essentialsaltes

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Israel said it deployed troops on Syrian territory, beyond a buffer zone established in 1974. Foreign Minister Gideon Saar described it as a “temporary” move intended to shore up Israeli defenses.

Egypt on Monday accused Israel of illegally seizing a buffer zone with Syria that was laid out in a 1974 international agreement. The Egyptian Foreign Ministry said Israel was taking “advantage of the state of flux” in Syria following the fall of President Bashar al-Assad’s regime to take over Syrian territory “even if it violates international law.”

Agreement on Disengagement between Israel and Syria

Following the fall of the Assad regime, Israel has considered the agreement null and void, leading to the 2024 Israeli invasion of Syria.

--

Finding Austin Tice, a U.S. journalist and Washington Post contributor who has been missing, presumably in Syria, since 2012, is a top rebel priority, said an advocate who is well connected in Syria.

“The Syrians owe him a debt forever.”

Per Wiki: Tice was one of the first American correspondents to witness Syrian-rebel confrontations.[13] His coverage was cited, along with efforts of additional reporters, as contributing to McClatchy winning a George Polk Award for war reporting for its coverage of Syria's civil war

In a speech on Dec 8, 2024—the day of the fall of the Assad regime—President Biden stated that "[the US government] think we can get him back"
 
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durangodawood

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With regards to middle eastern Islamic countries, the reality we're going to have to accept is that they don't like us, they don't want to like us, and religious/cultural differences preclude there being a real opportunity to change that. (at least in our lifetime)

That's what separates religiously driven differences from purely economic, territorial, or "past grudges" beefs.

If we were going to intervene or nose-in anywhere, our efforts and treasure would be better spent in places like Cuba, China, and N. Korea if I'm being honest.

It'd be easier to convince a communist to adopt market-based principles and "release their grip" a bit, than it would be to convince Islamists that they should introduce secular principles.

Like I mentioned before "life" vs. "Afterlife + eternity" are very different in their capacity to dictate the resolve of the parties involved.

The leaders of communistic regimes aren't under any impression that if they stray from the teachings of Marx, they'll suffer in hellfire for all of eternity. That concept is pretty much a "religious thing".
All sort of vaguely true for certain groups. But not others. Its too vague to apply to any specific situation for which youd need to know the particulars. In no way does every nominally Muslim group want to live in fundamentalist mode.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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All sort of vaguely true for certain groups. But not others. Its too vague to apply to any specific situation for which youd need to know the particulars. In no way does every nominally Muslim group want to live in fundamentalist mode.
They don't, but it doesn't tend to be the nominal/moderate Muslims who lead revolts against established power regimes over there. It seems to be the more "die-hard" fundamentalists who have the resolve to spearhead that kind of fight. (Which is understandable as when going on a "rebellion mission" that's going to involve large amounts of personal risk up to and including getting killed, that takes quite a bit of deeply held fervor for an ideology, and a level of "stick-to-itiveness" that typically isn't conferred by only nominally/moderately held ideologies.

The nominal Muslims tend to emigrate and move somewhere else more relaxed, or they keep their heads down and hope for the best.
 
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Nithavela

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Kremlin reports Putin grants asylum to Assad in Russia.
I'm sure they have a nice summer palace to store him and his family and wheel him out whenever they need to demonstrate their "loyality" to their "allies". Maybe they'll let him LARP an exile government of Syria or set him up with a business. And if he ever gets too expensive or bothersome, his plane might malfunction.
 
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durangodawood

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I'm sure they have a nice summer palace to store him and his family and wheel him out whenever they need to demonstrate their "loyality" to their "allies". Maybe they'll let him LARP an exile government of Syria or set him up with a business. And if he ever gets too expensive or bothersome, his plane might malfunction.
He might want to politely decline Russia's offer if its a 9th floor apartment.
 
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durangodawood

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They don't, but it doesn't tend to be the nominal/moderate Muslims who lead revolts against established power regimes over there. It seems to be the more "die-hard" fundamentalists who have the resolve to spearhead that kind of fight. (Which is understandable as when going on a "rebellion mission" that's going to involve large amounts of personal risk up to and including getting killed, that takes quite a bit of deeply held fervor for an ideology, and a level of "stick-to-itiveness" that typically isn't conferred by only nominally/moderately held ideologies.

The nominal Muslims tend to emigrate and move somewhere else more relaxed, or they keep their heads down and hope for the best.
Maybe. The Kurds seem to have kept up a fairly risky resistance, and they dont seem to be super fundamentalist anything. A lot of the Syrian population isnt super fundamentalist either - and many have deep resentments against the Assad regime. At this point I dont know who this group has attracted for their swift and relatively low casualty offensive. And their promised trend toward moderation and ordinary governance may yet bear fruit. Or not.
 
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Israel launches dozens of airstrikes in Syria, drawing U.N. condemnation

“We are continuing to see Israeli movements and bombardments into Syrian territory. This needs to stop,” [U.N. Special Envoy] Pedersen said.

Katz said the Israeli navy “successfully destroyed the Syrian fleet” overnight. He added that he, along with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, had directed the Israeli military to establish a “sterile defense zone” in southern Syria to “prevent the entrenchment and organization of terror” there.

Israel has “no intention of interfering in Syria’s internal affairs,” [Netanyahu] said, “but we are absolutely determined to do whatever is necessary to protect ourselves.”

  • The U.S. Justice Department has leveled war crimes charges against two men who it said served as high-ranking officials under Assad. The DOJ said Jamil Hassan and Abdul Salam Mahmoud, who remain at large, engaged “in a conspiracy to commit cruel and inhuman treatment of civilian detainees, including U.S. citizens,” during Syria’s decade-long civil war.
 
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Israel launches dozens of airstrikes in Syria, drawing U.N. condemnation

“We are continuing to see Israeli movements and bombardments into Syrian territory. This needs to stop,” [U.N. Special Envoy] Pedersen said.

Katz said the Israeli navy “successfully destroyed the Syrian fleet” overnight. He added that he, along with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, had directed the Israeli military to establish a “sterile defense zone” in southern Syria to “prevent the entrenchment and organization of terror” there.

Israel has “no intention of interfering in Syria’s internal affairs,” [Netanyahu] said, “but we are absolutely determined to do whatever is necessary to protect ourselves.”

  • The U.S. Justice Department has leveled war crimes charges against two men who it said served as high-ranking officials under Assad. The DOJ said Jamil Hassan and Abdul Salam Mahmoud, who remain at large, engaged “in a conspiracy to commit cruel and inhuman treatment of civilian detainees, including U.S. citizens,” during Syria’s decade-long civil war.
Jup, just what Syria needs. Out with the dictator and bombed right into the stone age by Israel.

Bet that will help the HTS rethink their tolerant stance.
 
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