Synagogue of Satan

[adam332]

[size=+2]Some Questions[/size]

There is much confusion and debate surrounding the meaning of Rev. 2:9 and 3:9, which is the only references in the Bible that mention the "synagogue of Satan".

This study will help reveal what these verses are actually implying.

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN.

Rev. 3:9 Behold, I will make them of theSYNAGOGUE OF SATAN, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Q.He knows the blasphemy of which group?
A."them which say they are Jews, and are not"

Q. What is this groups blasphemy?
A.It doesn't inform us in these verses, it only tells us that He knows their blasphemy.

Q.Who would say they are a Jew?
A. A Jew.

Q. Why would a Jew, not be a Jew?
A. If a Jew did not accept Christ, and could not be counted as one of Abraham's seed.

[size=+2]Jews and Gentiles[/size]

The leaders and majority of Israel denied Christ and lost their commission as a nation to be the carriers of the Word of God (Mat. 21:43, Rom. 11:19-23).
God no longer makes the distinction between the Jew and the Gentile(Rom. 2:11, Rom.10:12, 1Cor. 12:13, Gal.3:28, Col.3:11).
Instead He has written His laws on the believers heart(Heb.8:10, Heb.10:16).
Every believer is now individually commissioned to spread the Word(Mat.16:15, Mat.24:14).
So if someone of Jewish/Israelite bloodline did not accept Christ he would not be a Jew/Israelite(Rom.2:28, Gal.1:8, Gal.3:29, John8:37-42, Rev.2:9, Rev.3:9) in the eyes of God.
In the same respect, not everyone who is a Jew/Israelite is of the bloodline of Abraham(Rom. 2:29, Rom.9:6, Gal.3:29), for now God looks at the individual to determine if they are of Israel.

Paul describes it rather coldly, the transition from Gods first covenant to the new covenant "decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away".

Heb. 8:6 But now hath he obtained A MORE EXCELLENT MINISTRY, by how much also he is the mediator of A BETTER COVENANT, which was ESTABLISHED UPON BETTER PROMISES.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH:
9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; BECAUSE THEY CONTINUED NOT IN MY COVENANT, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT HE HATH MAKETH THE FIRST OLD. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

[size=+2]Blasphemy[/size]

Biblical Blasphemy- the claim of divine title or authority.
See John 10:33, Mark 2:7, Mark 14:61-64, Mat. 9:2-3, Mat. 26:63-65, Luke 5:21, Psa. 74:10, James 2:7.

To know what their blasphemy is, one only needs look at John 8:37-42.

They told Christ that Abraham was their Father.
They have placed Abraham in the place of God as proof of their salvation.
They believed salvation was their birthright, because of their flesh and blood.
God is the only father and salvation only comes through the Son(1Thes. 5:9, 2Tim. 2:10, 2Tim.3:15, Heb. 5:9, Heb. 9:28).

It does not come by bloodline but by God's pure grace.
They gave Abraham both divine title(Father) and divine power(salvation) to a man.
There is both Biblical definitions of blasphemy fulfilled by these Jews WHO ARE NOT counted as Abraham's seed, for they are not "in Christ".

Ironically and sadly, it was these very reasons of blasphemy that they crucified Christ.

 

[Linda8]

I thought synagogues were of Christ.

Why the confusion?

 

[USAF]

.

 

[Atkin]

Rev 2:15 “ So hast thou also them that hold the Doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate ”



Rev 2:6 ” But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate ”


Which part of the Catholic belief system actually derives input from the Doctrine of the Nicolaitanes.


Why did the Catholics agree with what Christ disagreed with?

 

[Linda8]

Who is the focus of worship in the Synagogues of Christ in Jerusalem , New York etc?

Are there other synagogues and are they Jewish/Muslim synagogues?

Could Jews and Muslims have the same synagogue without Christ?

 

[parousia70]

The postions of authority in Israel were held within "offices" (Lk 1:8 or Heb 7:5, for example). This continued right on in the offices of the New Israel of the Church. That is, Christ and the apostles came to build a Church that would exist forever beyond the Parousia (Eph 3:21; Matt 16:18-19), and that Church had leadership contained in "offices" (1 Tim 3:1,10; Acts 1:20; Rom 11:13, 12:4). Offices have authority by virtue of their God-ordained existence, not by virtue of the person holding office. Psalm 109:8 affirms the nature of the offices of the Church--i.e., they are "offices," and they exist apart from the individual, and they continue perpetually for as long as the Melchizedek priesthood shall last (i.e., forever).

Succession is historical and biblical. It can be traced by history, going all the way back generation by generation to Jesus. This is precisely why the Catholic/Orthodox/Anglican priesthood is the one Jesus instituted 20 centuries ago. This is NOT at all to say those outside of this order are not Christians, but only to say that God has created a governmental order to the Church, and this has not been followed by protestants who broke away from the government of the Church and denied it existed any longer since "the papacy became the endtimes antichrist" (as Luther falsely taught). Obviously, the chaos of the protestant world is the result of this breaking away from the ordained Church government institued by Christ.

The big question seems to me to revolve around what to do when appointed men do not live up to the duty and honor of their office. The catholic view of authority in the Church is that authority does not exist solely on individual men, but rather on divinely appointed offices. This was so in the OT times and in the New. Organizational authority seems to always work in this fashon, be it the office of bishop or the office of the President of the United States. Men come and go, but offices remain. And, some men show themselves worthy of their offices, and others fail to do so.

The apostles themselves appointed bishops and elders that failed to live up to the vocation of their office and abandoned them (and even abandoned the apostles), and even Jesus himself appointed a known bad egg to a divine office (of apostle, no less). So, this is a real possibility today in the divine offices of the Church.

Whatever the Reformers hoped to achieve by striking out on their own, it is clear they did not achieve it. 500 years later, we have much to sort out so that we can live and work together in unity.

The Church is Christ incarnate, the Chuch is visible with apostolic succession among the bishops, our Christian faith is sacramental and charismatic, Christ is present in the seven sacraments as a special blessing to mankind for the various stages of life, the bishops were granted authority from Christ to appoint successors, to grant pardon to sinners and to excommunicate, we are in mystical communion with the saints in Heaven, the Kingdom is imperialistic through the dominion mandate, and Luther entirely fumbled on justification.

 

[Atkin]

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This is precisely why the Catholic/Orthodox/Anglican priesthood is the one Jesus instituted 20 centuries ago. This is NOT at all to say those outside of this order are not Christians, but only to say that God has created a governmental order to the Church, and this has not been followed by protestants who broke away from the government of the Church and denied it existed any longer since "the papacy became the endtimes antichrist" (as Luther falsely taught). Obviously, the chaos of the protestant world is the result of this breaking away from the ordained Church government institued by Christ.



The Church is Christ incarnate, the Chuch is visible with apostolic succession among the bishops, our Christian faith is sacramental and charismatic, Christ is present in the seven sacraments as a special blessing to mankind for the various stages of life, the bishops were granted authority from Christ to appoint successors, to grant pardon to sinners and to excommunicate, we are in mystical communion with the saints in Heaven, the Kingdom is imperialistic through the dominion mandate, and Luther entirely fumbled on justification.

Your post does not provide specific acts by Jesus.

Jesus appointed apostles that is all. He did not set up any government.

Jesus did not come remotely close to setting up anything that can be called a church government order.

I am sure you will proceed to back up your claims with Bible verses.

Let us start.

1- Provide the exact name and titles of Positions that Christ HIMSELF instituted in his so called government. I repeat PETER was a messenger of God with a mission with some responsibility.

2. List all sub offices that Christ created in Jerusalem, Galilee, Capernaum etc.. wherever you claim

that government and/or church officials were located. List further sub positions/ offices in the hierarchy if any that JESUS HIMSELF created.

Bear in mind that the Apostles were mere messengers of Jesus. He made Peter carrry certain

responsibilities but nothing extraordinary should be made out of that ESPECIALLY since Peter

was not carrying himself around as some important fellow.. In fact he was crucified like a criminal.

Jesus did not install any Cardinals or man made officials and The Bible is clear on that.


B. You seem to be sidestepping the issue of idolatry. You act as though you do not know what an Idol is.

An idol of anything in Heaven is not necessarily a Golden Calf only.

Which Idols are being referred to here? I guess it depends on how one defines an idol. God's definition

overrides all man made definitions.

How did God define an idol in Exodus 20:4? Is Mary in Heaven now?

No one should act as though they do not know what idols are.

In fact, one cannot hide behind the fact that since some one is in heaven, it is all right to make A STATUE

of that human being and place some focus on that statue because God started the idolatry warning from Heaven's residents.

Do not make anything to REPRESENT ANYONE in Heaven OR any BEING in Heaven.

You cannot make an image of God either, because No human today has ever seen the face or appearance

of God.

What IS GOD'S definition of an idol?. That is what should guide any analysis of idols.

 

[parousia70]

Your post does not provide specific acts by Jesus.

Jesus appointed apostles that is all. He did not set up any government.

Jesus did not come remotely close to setting up anything that can be called a church government order.

I am sure you will proceed to back up your claims with Bible verses.

Well, I did post Bible verses but you elected not to quote them for some reason. Oh well, thats ok.

Christ came to establish his eternal Church, and he did so by giving his own royal authority to His people, even making them one with Himself (Matt 16:18-19; Eph 5:30-32; Eph 1:22-23; Jn 14:20, 17:21-23). The Church participates in Christ's rule and reign and has His government as well as Divine right/authority.

The leadership of the Church is designed with ordained overseers that are one body in unity. The 12 began establishing offices for the Church. They filled Judas' empty slot with a new apostle, and began ordaining bishops and deacons through the laying on of hands, by which the bishops and deacons received Christ's authority through the apostles and governmental charisms from the Holy Spirit. They in turn were commanded to ordain new bishops and deacons in exactly this manner as they themselves received Christ's authority (Titus 1:5). That is the authoritative overseer structure of the Church that Christ designed and as we read in the NT. This leadership is one body together, instituted for the government of God's Kingdom/Holy Nation and the perpetual shepherding of the flocks of God. So, the Church has apostolic authority, that authority given her from Christ to the apostles and their successors the bishops/deacons.

So, while the 12 had a unique role (Rev 21:14/Mt 19:28), there were many other apostles contemporary with them (Silas, Barnabas, Junias, Epaphroditus, Paul) and also apostolic gifts/charisms that were available to be manifested by the Holy Spirit as he willed in every congregation (1 Cor 12:28-31).

B. You seem to be sidestepping the issue of idolatry. You act as though you do not know what an Idol is.

An idol of anything in Heaven is not necessarily a Golden Calf only.

Which Idols are being referred to here? I guess it depends on how one defines an idol. God's definition

overrides all man made definitions.

How did God define an idol in Exodus 20:4? Is Mary in Heaven now?

Do you believe Mary is in Heaven now? Isn't that a Catholic belief?

No one should act as though they do not know what idols are.

In fact, one cannot hide behind the fact that since some one is in heaven, it is all right to make A STATUE

Are only statues banned or is it ANY image?

Is it alright to posses a photograph of someone who is now in heaven?

Is it ok to have an artist paint or draw a rendering of that photograph?

Reason I ask is that I have a photograph of my Christain Grandparents who have passed on, and I commissioned a local artist to paint a painting using that photograph as her template.

I Look upon that painting every day and fondly remember the people it is an image of. (My Grandparents)

Would you say this act is "Idol Worship" on my part?

 

[Atkin]

Do you believe Mary is in Heaven now? Isn't that a Catholic belief?

Are only statues banned or is it ANY image?

Is it alright to posses a photograph of someone who is now in heaven?

Is it ok to have an artist paint or draw a rendering of that photograph?

Reason I ask is that I have a photograph of my Christain Grandparents who have passed on, and I commissioned a local artist to paint a painting using that photograph as her template.

I Look upon that painting every day and fondly remember the people it is an image of. (My Grandparents)

Would you say this act is "Idol Worship" on my part?

The Catholics believe Mary is in heaven and I used that to explain that EVEN IF SHE IS IN HEAVEN

GOD WARNS against any images of anyone thought or ASSUMED to be in heaven.. so there is NO EXCUSE

before God regarding that heinous sin. involving things associated with Mary etc.

I will address the idolatry issue first and explain the problems with this Church government by humans

next.

Regarding the photo of your Christian grandparents, how many people join you at home to view

those photos? Do you view them together with tens of millions of people. ? Absolutely Not.. you view them

alone /with family

and regard them as departed relatives..... NOT AS EXTREMELY BLESSED humans that play a role as focus of many recitals and prayers..

DO YOU have printed prayer/recitals INVOLVING THEIR NAMES (Your Grandparents)?

of course not . Do you recite and recite "prayers" with the names of your Grandparents being mentioned

and featuring extensivley and have you printed out those prayers and distributed them to tens of millions of human beings to be featured in Churches?

No.. your Christian grandparents are merely in your localised memory and involved in your narrow family setting.

I daresay you view their pictures in your restricted family limits.

Now how many people IN UNISON spend a lot of time focusing on Mary etc as well as other humans whom they say are VERY VERY HOLY and EXTREMELY BLESSED human beings.

How many I ask of you? Hundreds of millions all over the world.

That IS THE scale of DEVIATION and extreme error I am talking about.

How many recitals at Mass do you recite the names of your Christian grandparents and do you teach millions of other people to recite those references of your Christian grandparents.

You know the answer to that question.

WHY HAVE THE CATHOLICS rewritten the 2ND COMMANDMENT?

Beware, for warnings such as Ex 20:4 cannot be taken for granted or twisted around with human excuses.

 

[parousia70]

Exodus 20:4
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

I see none of the extra requirements you posted such as:

view them together with tens of millions of people

EXTREMELY BLESSED humans that play a role as focus of many recitals and prayers..

have printed prayer/recitals INVOLVING THEIR NAMES

recite and recite "prayers" with the names

feature extensivley and have you printed out those prayers and distributed them to tens of millions of human beings to be featured in Churches?

many people IN UNISON spend a lot of time focusing on Mary etc as well as other humans whom they say are VERY VERY HOLY and EXTREMELY BLESSED human beings.

It appears you are the one twisting Exodus 20:4 to suit your belief, for I find nothing about "printed materials" and "tens of millions of people" being a requirement for "idol Worship" in Exodous 20:4

Your point seems to be that a "graven image" is only a graven image if it's Catholic, which I can't find anywhere in scripture.

Since this is devolving into a discussion with little or nothing to do with eschatology, perhaps we might find a better place to continue it, yes?

 

[Hitch]

Hmmmm Atkin how mamy 'pastors' did Christ himself appoint?

Let us start.

1- Provide the exact name and titles of Positions that Christ HIMSELF instituted in his so called government. I repeat PETER was a messenger of God with a mission with some responsibility.


Are all pastors then pastors of satan?

Hitch

 

[USAF]

Parousia









Revelation 2:15, "So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate."



Now why is this such a terrible thing? It is terrible because God has never placed His church in the hands of an elected leadership which moves with political mindedness. He has placed His church in the care of God- ordained, Spirit-filled, Word-living men who lead the people through feeding them the Word. He has not separated the people into classes so that the masses are led by a holy priesthood. It is true that the leadership must be holy, but then so must be the whole congregation. Further, there is no place in the Word where priests or ministers or such mediate between God and the people, nor is there a place where they are separated in their worship of the Lord. God wants all to love and serve Him together. Nicolaitanism destroys those precepts and instead separates the ministers from the people and makes the leaders overlords instead of servants. Now this doctrine actually started as a deed in the first age. It appears that the problem lay in two words: "elders" (presbyters) and "overseers" (bishops). Though Scripture shows that there are several elders in each church, some began (Ignatius among them) to teach that the idea of a bishop was one of preeminence or authority and control over the elders. Now the truth of the matter is the word "elder" signifies who the person is, while the word "bishop" signifies the office of the same man. The elder is the man. Bishop is the office of the man. "Elder" always has and always will refer simply to a man's chronological age in the Lord. He is an elder, not because he is elected or ordained, etc., but because he IS OLDER. He is more seasoned, trained, not a novice, reliable because of experience and long standing proof of his Christian experience. But no, the bishops did not stick to the epistles of Paul, but rather they went to Paul's account of the time he called the elders from Ephesus to Miletus in Acts 20. In verse 17 the record states, "elders" were called and then in verse 28 they are called overseers (bishops). And these bishops, (no doubt political minded and anxious for power) insisted that Paul had given the meaning that "overseers" were more than the local elder with official capacity only in his own church. To them a bishop was now one with extended authority over many local leaders. Such a concept was neither Scriptural nor historical, yet even a man of the stature of Polycarp leaned toward such organization. Thus, that which started as a deed in the first age was made a literal doctrine and so it is today. Bishops still claim power to control men and deal with them as they desire, placing them where they so will in the ministry. This denies the leadership of the Holy Ghost Who said, "Separate Me Paul and Barnabas for the work whereunto I have called them." This is anti-Word and anti-Christ. Matthew 20:25-28, "But Jesus called them unto Him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you; but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; and whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give His life a ransom for many." Matthew 23:8- 9, "But be not ye called Rabbi: for One is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for One is your Father, Which is in heaven."

In order to clarify this even more, let me explain Nicolaitanism in this way. You recall that in Revelation 13:3 it says, "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death: and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast." Now we know that the wounded head was the pagan Roman Empire, that great political world power. This head rose again as the "Roman Catholic spiritual empire." Now watch this carefully. What did political pagan Rome do that was the basis of her success? She, "divided and conquered." That was the seed of Rome --- divide and conquer. Her iron teeth tore and devoured. Whom she tore and devoured could not rise again as when she destroyed Carthage and sowed her to salt. The same iron seed remained in her when she arose as the false church, and her policy has remained the same --- divide and conquer. That is Nicolaitanism and God hates it.

Now it is a well known historical fact that when this error crept into the church, men began to vie for the office of bishop with the result that this position was being given to the more educated and materially-progressive and politically-minded men. Human knowledge and program began to take over Divine wisdom's place and the Holy Spirit no longer controlled. This was indeed a tragic evil, for the bishops began to maintain that it no longer required a transparent Christian character to minister either the Word or the rites in the church for it was the elements and the ceremony that counted. This allowed evil men (seducers) to rend the flock.

With the man-made doctrine of the elevation of bishops to a place not accorded them in Scripture, the next step was the handing out of graded titles that built up into a religious hierarchy; for soon there were archbishops over bishops and cardinals over the archbishops and by the time of Boniface the third there was a pope over all, a Pontiff.

What with the Nicolaitane doctrine and the amalgamation of Christianity with Babylonianism the net results had to be what Ezekiel saw in chapter 8:10, "So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, portrayed upon the wall around." Revelation 18:2, "And he cried mightily, with a strong voice saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and cage of every unclean and hateful bird, for all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornications."

Now this Nicolaitane doctrine, this rule that was established in the church did not hit it off too well with a lot of the people for they could read the odd epistle or essay on the Word written by some godly person. So what did the church do? It excommunicated the righteous teachers and burned the scrolls. They said, "It takes a special education to read and understand the Word. Why even Peter said that many things Paul wrote were hard to understand." Having taken away the Word from the people, it soon came to the people listening only to what the priest had to say, and doing what he told them. They called that God and His holy Word. They took over the minds and lives of the people and made them the servants of a despotic priesthood.

Now if you want proof that the Catholic Church demands the lives and minds of men, just listen to the edict of Theodosius X. Theodosius' First Edict.

This edict was issued immediately after he was baptized by the First Church of Rome. "We three emperors will that our subjects steadfastly adhere to the religion which was taught by Saint Peter to the Romans, which has been faithfully preserved by tradition and which is now professed by the pontiff, Damasus of Rome, and Peter, bishop of Alexandria, a man of Apostolic holiness according to the institution of the Apostles, and the doctrine of the Gospel; let us believe in one Godhead of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, of equal majesty in the Holy Trinity. We order that the adherents of this faith be called Catholic Christians; we brand all the senseless followers of the other religions with the infamous name of heretics, and forbid their conventicles assuming the name of churches. Besides the condemnation of divine justice, they must expect the heavy penalty which our authority, guided by heavenly wisdom shall think proper to inflict . . ."

The fifteen penal laws that this emperor issued in as many years deprived the evangelicals of all rights to the exercise of their religion, excluded them from all civil offices, and threatened them with fines, confiscation, banishment and even in some cases, death.

Do you know what? We are headed right that way today.

The Roman Catholic Church calls herself the Motherchurch. She calls herself the first or original church. That is absolutely correct. She was the original First Church of Rome that backslid and went into sin. She was the first that organized. In her was found the deeds and then the doctrine of Nicolaitanism. No one will deny that she is a mother. She is a mother and has produced daughters. Now a daughter comes out of a woman. A woman robed in scarlet is sitting on the seven hills of Rome. She is a harlot and has borne daughters. Those daughters are the Protestant churches that came out of her and then went right back into organization and Nicolaitanism. This Mother of the daughter-churches is called a harlot. That is a woman who was untrue to her marriage vows. She was married to God and then went off fornicating with the devil and in her fornications she has brought forth daughters that are just like her. This mother and daughter combination is anti-Word, anti-Spirit and consequently anti-Christ. Yes, ANTICHRIST.

Now before I get too far along I want to mention that these early bishops thought that they were above the Word. They told people they could forgive their sins upon confession of those sins. That never was the truth. They began to baptize infants in the second century. They actually practiced regenerational baptism. No wonder people are mixed up today. If they were so mixed up then, so close to Pentecost, now they are in a most desperate condition, being about two thousand years away from original truth.

Oh, Church of God, there is only one hope. Get back to the Word and stay with it.

 

[USAF]

The Doctrine of Balaam

Revelation 2:14, "Thou hast them that hold the doctrine of Balaam who taught Balac to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication."

Now you just can't have a Nicolaitane set-up in the church and not have this other doctrine come in, too. You see, if you take away the Word of God and the moving of the Spirit as a means of worship ("they that worship Me must worship Me in Spirit and in truth") then you will have to give the people another form of worship as a substitute, and substitution spells Balaamism.

If we are going to understand what the doctrine of Balaam is in the New Testament church we had better go back and see what it was in the Old Testament church and apply it to that third age and then bring it up to the present.

The story is found in Numbers Chapters 22 through 25. Now we know that Israel was the chosen people of God. They were the Pentecostals of their day. They had taken refuge under the blood, they had all been baptized in the Red Sea and they came up out of the waters, singing in the Spirit and dancing under the energy of the Holy Ghost, while Miriam, the prophetess, played her tambourine. Well, after a certain time of journeying, these children of Israel came to Moab. You remember who Moab was. He was the son of Lot by one of his own daughters, and Lot in turn was a nephew of Abraham, so Israel and Moab were related. I want you to see that. The Moabites knew the truth, whether they lived up to it or not.

So Israel came up to the borders of Moab and sent messengers to the king saying, "We are brothers. Let us pass through your land. If our people or our animals eat or drink anything, we will gladly pay for it." But King Balak got very excited. That head of that Nicolaitane bunch was not about to let the church come through with its signs and wonders and divers manifestations of the Holy Ghost, with their faces shining with the glory of God. It was too risky, as he might lose some of his crowd. So Balak refused to let Israel pass through. In fact, so great was his fear of them, that he went to an hireling prophet called Balaam and asked him to mediate between him and God, and petition the Almighty to curse Israel, and render them impotent. And Balaam, being eager to take part in political affairs and become a great man, was only too glad to do so. But seeing that he had to approach to, and receive an audience from God to get the people cursed, as he could not do it by himself, he went to ask God if he could have His permission to go. Now isn't that just like the Nicolaitanes we have with us today? They curse everyone that won't go their way.

When Balaam asked God for permission to go, God turned him down. My that stung! But Balak insisted, promising him even greater rewards and honor. So Balaam went back to God. Now one answer from God should have been enough. But not for self-willed Balaam. When God saw his perversity, He told him to get up and go. Quickly he saddled the donkey and away he went. He should have realized that this was simply God's permissive will and he wouldn't be able to curse them if he went twenty times and tried twenty times. How like Balaam are people today! They believe in three Gods, get baptized in three titles instead of the NAME, and yet God will send the Spirit upon them as He did upon Balaam, and they will go on believing that they are exactly right, and here they are actually perfect Balaamites. See, the doctrine of Balaam. Go ahead anyway. Do it your way. They say, "Well, God has blessed us. It must be alright." I know He has blessed you. I don't deny that. But it's the same organizational route that Balaam took. It's defiance to God's Word. It's false teaching.

So Balaam went wildly down the road until an angel from God stood in his way. But that prophet (bishop, cardinal, chairman, president and general overseer) was so blinded to Spiritual things by the thought of honor and glory and money, that he could not see the angel standing with drawn sword. There he stood to block the mad prophet. The little donkey saw him and dodged back and forth until he finally crushed Balaam's foot against a stone wall. The *** stopped and would not go on. He could not. So Balaam jumped off and began beating him. The donkey then began to talk to Balaam. God let that donkey speak in a tongue. That donkey was no hybrid; he was original seed. He said to the blinded prophet, "Am I not your donkey, and haven't I carried you faithfully?" Balaam replied, "Yes, yes, you are my donkey and you have carried me faithfully until now; and if I can't get you going, I'm going to kill you . . ." "Whoa! What's this, talking to a donkey? That's funny, I thought I heard the donkey talking and I was answering it back."

God has always spoken in a tongue. He spoke at Belshazzar's feast and then at Pentecost. He is doing it again today. It's a warning of soon coming judgment.

Then the angel was made visible to Balaam. He told Balaam that except for the donkey he would be dead even now for tempting God. But when Balaam promised to go back, he was sent on with the admonition to say only what God gave him.

 

[USAF]

So Balaam went down and set up seven altars for the clean beasts of sacrifice. He killed a ram signifying the coming of the Messiah. He knew what to do to approach unto God. He had the mechanics just right; but not the dynamics; same as now. Can't you see it, Nicolaitanes? There was Israel down there in the valley, offering the same sacrifice, doing the same things, but only one had the signs following. Only one had God in their midst. Form won't get you anywhere. It can't take the place of Spirit-manifestation. That is what happened at Nicaea. They put over Balaam's doctrine, not the doctrine of God. And they stumbled; yea they fell. They became dead men.

After the sacrifice was made, Balaam was ready to prophesy. But God tied his tongue up and he could not curse them. He blessed them.

Balak was very angry, but there was nothing that Balaam could do about the prophecy. It had been spoken by the Holy Ghost. So Balak told Balaam to go down below, into the valley, and look upon their back parts to see if there wasn't possibly some way he could curse them. The tactics that Balak used are the same tactics they use today. The big denominations look down at the little groups, and anything they find amongst them to make out a scandal they bring it out and shout it. If the moderns live in sin, no one says anything about it; but let one of the elect get into trouble and every paper blasts it across the country. Yes, Israel had her back (carnal) parts. They had their side that wasn't praise-worthy; but in spite of their imperfections, by the purpose of God that works through election, by grace and not by works, THEY HAD THE CLOUD BY DAY AND THE PILLAR OF FIRE BY NIGHT, THEY HAD THE SMITTEN ROCK, THE BRAZEN SERPENT AND THE SIGNS AND WONDERS. They were vindicated - --- not in themselves, but in God.

God didn't have any respect for those Nicolaitanes with their PHD's, LLD'S and DD'S and all their fine organizations and the best that man could boast; but He did have respect unto Israel for they had the Word vindicated amongst them. Certainly Israel didn't look too polished up, just having come out of Egypt in precipitous flight, but she was a blessed people anyway. All she had ever known for over three hundred years was herding flocks, tending fields and slaving away in fear of death under the Egyptians. But she was free now. She was a blessed people through the sovereignty of God. Certainly Moab looked down on her. All the other nations did, too. Organization always looks down on the unorganized and either will, by determination, bring them into organization or destroy them when they won't come.

Now someone might ask me, "Brother Branham, what makes you think that Moab was organized while Israel was not? Where do you get that idea?" I get it right here in the Bible. It is all typed out here. Everything written in the Old Testament that is in story form is written for our admonition so that we can learn from it. Here it is right in Numbers 23:9, "From the top of the rocks I see him, and from the hills I behold him; lo the people shall dwell ALONE, and shall NOT BE RECKONED AMONG THE NATIONS." There it is. God looking down from the top of the rocks, not in some valley looking for their bad points and condemning them. God seeing them the way He wanted to see them --- from the height of love and mercy. They dwelt ALONE and they weren't organized. They didn't have a king. They had a prophet, and the prophet had God in him by the Spirit; and the Word came to the prophet and the Word went to the people. They didn't belong to the U.N.. They didn't belong to the World Council of Churches, to the Baptists, Presbyterians, Assembly of God or any other group. They didn't need to belong. They were joined to God. They didn't need counsel from any council --- they had "Thus saith the Lord" in their midst. Hallelujah!

Now in spite of the fact that Balaam knew the proper approach to God and could bring forth a revelation from the Lord by means of a special enduement of power, he was still, for all of that, a bishop in the false group. For what did he do now in order to win favor with Balak? He formulated a plan wherein God would be forced to deal with Israel in death. Just as Satan knew that he could beguile Eve (cause her to fall in fleshly sin) thus causing God to pass His pronounced sentence of death against sin, so Balaam knew that if he could get Israel to sin, God would have to deal with them in death. So he planned a way to get them to come over and join in sin. He sent out invitations to come to the feast of Baal-peor (come over and worship with us). Now Israel, no doubt, had seen the feasts of the Egyptians so they did not feel it was too wrong to go and just look on and perhaps eat with the people. (What is wrong with fellowship any way? We are supposed to love them, aren't we, or how can we win them?) Being friendly never hurt anyone -- - or so they thought. But when those sexy Moabitish women began to dance and undress while they whirled around, doing their rock and roll and twist, the lust rose up in the Israelites and they were drawn into adultery, and God in wrath slew forty-two thousand of them.

And that is what Constantine and his successors did at Nicaea and after Nicaea. They invited the people of God to the convention. And when the church sat down to eat, and rose up to play (partaking of church form, ceremonies, and pagan feasts named after Christian rites), she was trapped; she had committed fornication. And God walked out.

When any man turns from the Word of God and joins a church instead of receiving the Holy Spirit, that man dies. Dead! That is what he is. Don't join a church. Don't get into organization and get taken up with creeds and tradition or anything that takes the place of the Word and the Spirit, or you're dead. It's all over. You're dead. Eternally separated from God!

That is what has happened in every age since. God delivers the people. They come out by the blood, sanctified by the Word, walk through the waters of baptism and get filled with the Spirit; but after awhile the first love cools off and someone gets the idea that they ought to organize in order to preserve themselves and make a name for themselves, and they organize themselves right back in the second generation and sometimes even before then. They no longer have the Spirit of God, just a form of worship. They are dead. They have hybridized themselves with creed and form and there is no life in them.

So Balaam got Israel to commit fornication. Do you know that physical fornication is the very same spirit that lies in organized religion? I said that the spirit of fornication is the spirit of organization. And all fornicators will have their place in the lake of fire. That is what God thinks of organization. Yes sir, the harlot and her daughters will be in the lake of fire.

Denominations are not of God. They never have been and never will be. It's a wrong spirit that separates the people of God into hierarchy and laity; and it's, therefore, a wrong spirit that separates the people from the people. That's what organization and denominations do. In organizing they separate themselves from the Word of God, and bring themselves into spiritual adultery.

Now notice that Constantine gave special feasts unto the people. They were the old pagan feasts with new names taken from the church, or in some cases Christian rites were taken and abused with pagan ceremonies. He took the worship of the sun-god and changed it to the Son of God. Instead of celebrating on December 21, which is when they used to celebrate the feast to the sun- god, they put it up to December 25th and called it the Son of God's birthday. But we know that He was born in April when life comes forth, not in December. And they took the feast to Astarte and called it the Easter celebration wherein the Christian is supposed to celebrate the death and resurrection of the Lord. Actually it was a pagan feast to Astarte.

They placed altars in the church. They put in images. They gave the people what they called the apostles' creed, though you can't find it in the Bible. They taught the people ancestor worship thereby making the Rou spiritistic church in the world. Every foul bird was in that cage. And you have the Protestants with their organizations doing the same thing.

They ate things sacrificed to idols. Now I don't say that this really means they were literally eating meats sacrificed to idols. For though the council of Jerusalem had spoken against such, Paul did not make much of it as he said the idols were nothing. It was just a matter of conscience except where it offended a weaker brother and then it was not allowed. Furthermore, this Revelation has to do with Gentiles and not Jews as these are Gentile Churches. I see this in the same light I see the words of the Lord, "Except ye eat My flesh and drink My blood, you have no life in you. Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." You can see that eating is actually partaking in a spiritual sense. So when these people were bowing to the images, lighting candles, using pagan holidays, confessing their sins to men (all of which belongs to the devil's religion,) they were partakers with the devil and not of the Lord. They were in idolatry whether they admitted it or not. They can talk all they want that the altars and the incense are only to remind them of the prayers of the Lord or whatever they think it means; and they can say that when they pray before the image it is just for the sake of emphasis; and that when they confess to the priest, it is really to God they are doing it in their hearts, and when they say the priest forgives them, it is just that he is doing it in the Name of the Lord; they can say what they want but they are partaking in the well known Babylonian, Satanic religion and have joined themselves to idols and committed spiritual fornication, which means death. They are dead.

So the church and the state were married. The church joined up with idols. With the power of the state behind them they felt that now, "The kingdom had come and God's will had been enforced upon the earth." No wonder the Roman Catholic Church is not looking for the return of the Lord Jesus. They are not millennialists. They have their millennium right here. "The pope is reigning right now and God is reigning in him." So when He comes according to them, it has to be when the new heavens and the earth are prepared. But they are wrong. That pope is the head of the false church, and there is going to be a millennium, but while that is going on he won't be in it. He will be somewhere else.



The Warning

Revelation 2:16, "Repent or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth."

What else can He say? Can God overlook the sin of those who have borne His Name in vain? There is only one way to receive grace in the hour of sin, REPENT. Confess you are wrong. Come to God for forgiveness and for the Spirit of God. This is a command from God. To disobey is death, for He says, "I will make war with you with the sword in My mouth." The beast made war with the saints, but God will make war with the beast. Those who fought the Word will one day find the Word fighting them. It is a serious thing to take from, or add to the Word of God. For those who changed it, and did with it as it suited them, what will their end be but death and destruction? But still the grace of God cries out, "Repent." Oh, how sweet are the thoughts of repentance. Nothing in my hands I bring, simply to Thy cross I cling. I bring my sorrow. I repent that I am what I am, and what I have done. Now it is the blood, nothing but the blood of Jesus. What will it be? Repentance, or the sword of death? It's up to you.

 

[Atkin]

Exodus 20:4
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

I see none of the extra requirements you posted such as:

view them together with tens of millions of people

EXTREMELY BLESSED humans that play a role as focus of many recitals and prayers..

have printed prayer/recitals INVOLVING THEIR NAMES

recite and recite "prayers" with the names

feature extensivley and have you printed out those prayers and distributed them to tens of millions of human beings to be featured in Churches?

many people IN UNISON spend a lot of time focusing on Mary etc as well as other humans whom they say are VERY VERY HOLY and EXTREMELY BLESSED human beings.

It appears you are the one twisting Exodus 20:4 to suit your belief, for I find nothing about "printed materials" and "tens of millions of people" being a requirement for "idol Worship" in Exodous 20:4

Your point seems to be that a "graven image" is only a graven image if it's Catholic, which I can't find anywhere in scripture.

Since this is devolving into a discussion with little or nothing to do with eschatology, perhaps we might find a better place to continue it, yes?

Parousia,

We do not SEE THE words cocaine or crack in the Bible... surely, does that mean we can go ahead and use them as drug addicts do and destroy our lives? Your statement did not address the issues at all.

As I mentioned, it is clear that such widespread practices involving millions puts many lives in spiritual jeopardy.

Why should we close our eyes to such practices seeing that God was warning against such imagery which leads to idolatry and focus on irrelevant non scriptural aspects?

Come now, how could a discussion regarding deviations of churches from the truth NOT be related

to eschatology? Are you deliberately avoiding the truth? False teachings and practices from any CHURCH play a very serious role in Eschatology/Judgement and Christ himself warned about this several times in Revelation chapters 2-3 and such warnings equally apply to all in the light of human judgement before God.

How could we claim that issues like idolatry and debasement and defilement OF THE 10 COMMANDMENTS

have nothing to do with Judgement and Eschatology.

No that is wrong.

You brought up the trivial unrelated issue of your grandparent's picture and I made it clear that I was addressing a more serious issue regarding the infusion of imagery alien to God's direction
into the Church.

I will not excuse idolatry from any church.. it is bad irrespective of where it is found.

Please point out any other church that has the same rate and focus on images, statues, excessive human (Mary) reverence, extensive prayer listings/creed additions to Christ's Word and many more.

God expects us to carefully use His word and not to find convenient excuses.

If you can find any other church which such practices, we will acknowledge that honestly. Why should we be silent when Cathocs err? Would that not be wrong?

Kindly answer this question I posed earlier?

Why did the Catholics change the 2nd commandment? Please help me out on that one (see their Catechism etc)

 

[Atkin]

[/font][/color][/b]


, and even Jesus himself appointed a known bad egg to a divine office (of apostle, no less).
?

Did this person CONTINUE in his bad behaviour AFTER HE WAS APPOINTED Christ?

Your comparison is false. An erroneous statement on your part which is being used to excuse deviance

by so called Church leaders. You have taken someone's past and act as if that excuses the deviance

of Church officials.


OF COURSE people with bad pasts are called to the Lord but they change and STOP their sinful behavior .

WE ARE talking about here Church officials WHO commit horrible acts WHILE IN OFFICE not

in their lives before they were appointed into the Church.

WHO CARES today what he did before Jesus appointed him?

Did God provide human beings with the option of changing their lives and repenting or not?

So what is the point in bringing up this apostles past?

We are stressing on Bishops and cardinals and priests of other churches WHO COMMIT horrible CRIMES while in office, we are not focusing on their lives NOT BEFORE they repented and came into the Church.

What someone does before being cleansed by the Blood of Christ and repenting is totally irrelevant and wiped out.

That is the power of Christ unless you doubt Christ's sin cleansing power.

 

[Atkin]

The leadership of the Church is designed with ordained overseers that are one body in unity. ). That is the authoritative overseer structure of the Church that Christ designed and as we read in the NT. This leadership is one body together, instituted for the government of God's Kingdom/Holy Nation and the perpetual shepherding of the flocks of God. So, the Church has apostolic authority, that authority given her from Christ to the apostles and their successors the bishops/deacons.

You conveniently left out the fact that God used to Kill Israelite leaders worship (equivalent to our Church leaders) when they deviated from his direction.
This is not a trifling issue at all.

Further to the warnings in Revelation 2 and Revelation 3 from Christ to backslidden Believers

in Christianity (past and applies to present as well ) there some points that need to be clarified.

The cessation of direct punitive action from God to human beings, have caused

people in the Church to develop habits that they feel do not flaunt God's wishes.

You made a very loose statement regarding what can or cannot be found

in the commandment/scriptures regarding what humans should and should not do.


I wish to refer you to Leviticus 10:1-3

and Numbers regarding errors made during worship by those appointed to carry

out worship (a form of Old "church" officialdom)

This was an early form of ISRAELITE CHurch GOVERNMENT similar to the Bishops Cardinals etc

These were well known men assumed to be responsible LEADERS OF THE CONGREGATION. Numbers 16:1-3.

God WAS PREPARED to kill them in Numbers 20:21

"Separate yourselves from them so I might consume them"


Now do not give an excuse here. Would God strike down a Catholic leader who

introduces excessive focus on Mary & Some Saints into Catholic recitals

creating Church Mass rituals

involving the mentions of the name of Mary unneccesarily during prayers and recitals?

Well, because God has not been doing that kind of action as he did in Leviticus 10:1-3,

people get carried away and get stuck in these traditions BUT IF GOD WERE TO STRIKE down humans, I guess

these traditions would cease but of course during future judgement, that is when

people would be made to acount for their errors.


The point being made is that GOD TAKES DEVIATIONS from his word very seriously

and Nadab/Abihu etc may not have directly broken a commandment but God killed them because what

they did involved DEVIATION from God's intent for man and that is Disrespect to God which then BREAKS THE FIRST

COMMANDMENT. IN THE SAME MANNER AS FOCUSING on Mary and

asking Saints to convey prayers to God is IN THE SAME MANNER grossly disrepectful

in the sight of God but because God does not kill humans directly as he used to do,

people get away with these things TEMPORARILY.


CHURCH GOVERNMENT ORDAINED BY CHRIST.

This is a very very dangerous area.

Christ left the Planet after His 1st advent and other than DIRECTLY SPEAKING

TO SAUL OF TARSUS when He brought him into the Ministry as Paul,

Christ has made very few if any , ADMINISTRATVE

error checks on the Church in visible human form as He lived in the 1st advent.

Christ never returned to the Planet to cleanse the Church of errors that built up with time.

FACT OF THE MATTER IS many people who were later

appointed as Bishops Cardinals etc, were not being directly checked by Christ

Spiritual divine guidance was the key here BUT PEOPLE CAN LIE and claim to be

divinely guided and God may not IMMEDIATELY strike them down.


The result is that offices have been created and passed down FROM GENERATION TO

GENERATION TOGETHER WITH MANY FALSE TEACHINGS and deviations from God's word.

It would be naive to say that well evrything is fine because it was A CHAIN SUCCESSION.

Christ--->appointed Peter

Peter----> Appointed Bishop A


Then the errors begin AFTER THE DEATH of Apostles ( possibly even before)


Bishop A---> appointed Bishop B

Bishop B---> appointed Bishop C etc SO people assume

THE Church is divinely appointed FREE FROM heinous sins. That is dead wrong.

Christ left earth after his ascension and Peter , Paul etc were crucified

SO NO ONE was available to physically check

the errors that crept into the early Church which SOON BECAME THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.


The Catholics are quick to say THEY ARE THE mother church. They better be aware that

they bear a huge responsibility in that regard. Exploiting Christ's confered authority

by ading errors into the Church is a horrible act.


Simply put, human beings are prone to lying and claiming to be receiving DIVINE

INSTRUCTION FROM GOD AND CHRIST. So no one can say anybody is in divinely

appointed positions UNLESS GOD AND CHRIST directly monitor and confirm that

they ARE DOING WHAT IS RIGHT.

The Israelites erred from time to time hence God in those days intervened to kill

those in error BE IT OFFICIALS LIKE NADAB ABIHU in Leviticus 10 during worship conditions.


So when the catholics changed the 2nd commandment, they lived because we are TEMPORARILY

in a time of grace so God did not kill the Catholic officials hence they got away with it.


That does not mean that we should be lax in pointing out deviations from the church.

We must never assume that the authority that was PASSED DOWN from Christ to Peter

to Bishops etc WAS NOT CONTAMINATED somewhere along the line.


Christ---> Peter/Paul etc----> Bishop--> 2nd century---> ERRORS CREEP IN

BISHOP C---> Bishop D---> MORE errors---> Bishop E--->

We have a chain reaction accumulating OVER CENTURIES AND CENTURIES until the Church

becomes infested with deviations and departs from the sight of God.

let us not use the Christ--. Peter--> Bishops line as an excuse to avoid checking

errors that ENTERED the Church after the Apostles died.



I'd like to dilate on this area below via this question.

I would like to know when Christ ever preached about the holiness and virtues of His Mother Mary?

I am trying to locate where in the Bible Christ HIMSELF (NO ONE BUT CHRIST) extolled and extensively

preached about How blessed His Mother was?. I am asking about Christ's ministry

since that is our guide and when during His ministry did he mount a platform

and repeat sermons and prayers INVOLVING His mother Mary?

Please help us out with verses on that.

Kindly do not give any answer without a number of Bible verses with clear words spoken

directly by Christ.

 

[parousia70]

Did this person CONTINUE in his bad behaviour AFTER HE WAS APPOINTED Christ?

Yes Judas' bad behavior did continue after he was appointed an apostle BY CHRIST, and By the authority of the Holy Spirit bestowed upon the Church BY CHRIST, the aposltes apponited another to His divine office of Bishop/apostle:

Acts 1:16-26

16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. 17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. 18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. 19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood. 20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take. 21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection. 23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, 25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Your comparison is false. An erroneous statement on your part which is being used to excuse deviance by so called Church leaders. You have taken someone's past and act as if that excuses the deviance of Church officials.

Rather, as scripture testifies, Judas' "Office" remained intact and divinly appointed, even though Judas as a Church official, by his deviance did not live up to the honor and duty of that office.

Why should we expect any greater of later generations?
Men come and go, offices remain. Some men show themselves worthy, others do not.

It appears you missed this entire point the first time around.
Not uncommon for you with my posts it seems.

 

[parousia70]

You made a very loose statement regarding what can or cannot be found

in the commandment/scriptures regarding what humans should and should not do.

Atkin.
Lets get back to the beginning so I'm sure you understand the basics of my argument.

I previously stated:

Christ came to establish his eternal Church, and he did so by giving his own royal authority to His people, even making them one with Himself (Matt 16:18-19; Eph 5:30-32; Eph 1:22-23; Jn 14:20, 17:21-23). The Church participates in Christ's rule and reign and has His government as well as Divine right/authority.

Why don't you tell me which part of that statement you disagree with and what biblical disagreement you have with it.

If my above statement is true, (and it is) then your "need" for some "Christ specific mandate" is met in the actions of the Church itself, the very Body of Christ on earth. Indeed Christ incarnate.

Your contention appears to be one of anarchy instead of governance within the Church.

I wish to refer you to Leviticus 10:1-3


Now do not give an excuse here. Would God strike down a Catholic leader who introduces excessive focus on Mary & Some Saints into Catholic recitals
creating Church Mass rituals involving the mentions of the name of Mary unneccesarily during prayers and recitals?

Well, in the OT, since no one was saved, the only way for God to distribute punative damages was temporally, in the New covanant conversely, denying salvation for thoes who merely pretend to be "Christ ordained" in their deviant actions is far more concrete and eternal a punishment, rendering any physical punishment useless.

You continue to mention these "marian recitals- excessive saints focus"

Can you provide some specific examples?
Do you even know of any?

As for the rest of your post, you need to successfully refute my "the Church IS Christ incarnate" comment, which you have miserably failed thus far in doing.

 

[Dad Ernie]

[size=+2]Some Questions[/size]

There is much confusion and debate surrounding the meaning of Rev. 2:9 and 3:9, which is the only references in the Bible that mention the "synagogue of Satan".

This study will help reveal what these verses are actually implying.

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN.

Rev. 3:9 Behold, I will make them of theSYNAGOGUE OF SATAN, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Q.Who would say they are a Jew?
A. A Jew.

Q. Why would a Jew, not be a Jew?
A. If a Jew did not accept Christ, and could not be counted as one of Abraham's seed.

Greetings Adam332,

I can see by your own answers that you are unaware of what I am about to say. But let me first quote:

Gal 2:14-15 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? 15 We [who are] Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,

Today we have a growing number of Gentiles joining Messianic churches. Several of these churches do not have one single Jew as a member. In fact in a study I did a couple years ago, revealed that there was a vast number of these churches springing up around the world. Many of them are doing what Peter did in the above verse, that is trying to get the Gentiles to behave as though they were Jews. The "elders" wear clothes and long beards reminescent of Jewish Priests. They worship on the Sabbath instead of the Christian day of worship - Sunday. Some have gone so far as to require circumcision, as Peter did. I mean, they glean the scriptures to find Jewish traditions they can adopt. These people go so far as tracing their ancestory to see if there is a link anywhere to the 12 tribes so that they can claim their Jewishness. If you have not attended one of their services, I would suggest that you do so. Also by searching the internet, you will find some of these groups I am speaking of.

Now, I have also been in contact with TRUE Messianic Jews - REAL Jews who have accepted Christ. I have not yet met one of these TRUE Jews whom I didn't like and whose doctrines are quite compatible with my own. So I am not denigrating Messianic churches as a whole, only those who purvey another Gospel than the one Paul gave.

At the time of Peter's come-uppance, I believe there were probably both Jews and Gentiles who fell into this same category and thus John tells us it is THEY who CALL THEMSELVES Jews, but are not. They are supposed Messianic Christians who waylay the innocent and attempt to persuade them to follow the Old Covenant. THESE are the Synagogue of Satan.

You may want to give this your consideration.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie