Sweat scent study suggests gay men's brains differ

Status
Not open for further replies.

invisible trousers

~*this post promotes non-nicene christianity*~
Apr 22, 2005
3,507
402
✟20,718.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Courtesy of Reuters....

WASHINGTON, May 9 (Reuters) - A compound taken from male sweat stimulates the brains of gay men and straight women but not heterosexual men, raising the possibility that homosexual brains are different, researchers in Sweden reported on Monday.

Anyone care to comment on this?

This appears to be an interesting study, suggesting that homosexuality might not be completely determined by choice, like many who frequent these forums believe so. The sample size was only 36 people, but I'm not sure if that is reason to doubt the results. This story is running across the wires right now; a google news search for "testosterone gay" will bring up many stories, some with more information than others.
 

invisible trousers

~*this post promotes non-nicene christianity*~
Apr 22, 2005
3,507
402
✟20,718.00
Faith
Non-Denom
I get what you're saying, but need a little clarification. Is this what you're trying to get at with cause and result?

cause: Homosexual behavior is due to the interactions of certain pheremones in the brain.
result: Homosexual behavior results in the changing of pheremone interaction.

If I'm wrong feel free to correct me. But, if that's what you're getting at, then the answer is neither since the point of the study was not to indicate cause and result, but to indicate that gay mens brains react the same way as straight women when exposed to a certain pheremone. My point is that this, along with other brain similarities gay men have to women and differences with straight men, might help show that sexuality isn't something you can always explicitly choose--it's kind of hard to decide you want to change your brain structure.
 
Upvote 0

porcupine

Well-Known Member
Dec 5, 2003
1,181
0
74
✟1,363.00
Faith
Christian
invisible trousers said:
I get what you're saying, but need a little clarification. Is this what you're trying to get at with cause and result?

cause: Homosexual behavior is due to the interactions of certain pheremones in the brain.
result: Homosexual behavior results in the changing of pheremone interaction.

If I'm wrong feel free to correct me. But, if that's what you're getting at, then the answer is neither since the point of the study was not to indicate cause and result, but to indicate that gay mens brains react the same way as straight women when exposed to a certain pheremone. My point is that this, along with other brain similarities gay men have to women and differences with straight men, might help show that sexuality isn't something you can always explicitly choose--it's kind of hard to decide you want to change your brain structure.

Your definitions are correct.

It could be a result for both the sodomite men AND the normal woman.

Of course the sample is VERY small and I'd like to know more about how the subjects were selected. These headline "born homosexual" studies ofetn turn out to be run by homosexuals, funded by homosexual groups, and have faulty methodology. By the time that is discovered, the study is no longer news and the media don't WANT to cover that part.
 
Upvote 0

Sam Gamgee

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2005
1,652
103
53
New Hampshire, United States
Visit site
✟17,350.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
We can all comment on it, but until the full study comes out and can be analyzed, it's all conjecture.

My comment is: I'm not surprised that Clint Eastwood's brain works differently than Liberace's brain. And, although very preliminary, this is the first step to show that homosexuality isn't entirely learned and is partly biological
 
Upvote 0

porcupine

Well-Known Member
Dec 5, 2003
1,181
0
74
✟1,363.00
Faith
Christian
Sam Gamgee said:
We can all comment on it, but until the full study comes out and can be analyzed, it's all conjecture.

My comment is: I'm not surprised that Clint Eastwood's brain works differently than Liberace's brain. And, although very preliminary, this is the first step to show that homosexuality isn't entirely learned and is partly biological

Yeah, that's what they said about LaVey's 1991 "studies." The probelm was BIAS and poor methodology. I predict the same for this one.
 
Upvote 0
C

cvilleknight

Guest
The tendency of a person to be homosexual has little to do with the sin of homosexuality itself. All Christians have the tendancy to sin, if you are a straight man or woman you might feel lustful feelings toward the opposite sex same as a person with homosexual tendencies may be drawn to the person of the same sex lustfully. The sin is not the notion itself but acting on it. All Christians are tempted with sin, but it is not the temptation itself that is the sin it is acting on it!
 
Upvote 0

Sam Gamgee

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2005
1,652
103
53
New Hampshire, United States
Visit site
✟17,350.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
cvilleknight said:
The tendency of a person to be homosexual has little to do with the sin of homosexuality itself. All Christians have the tendancy to sin, if you are a straight man or woman you might feel lustful feelings toward the opposite sex same as a person with homosexual tendencies may be drawn to the person of the same sex lustfully. The sin is not the notion itself but acting on it. All Christians are tempted with sin, but it is not the temptation itself that is the sin it is acting on it!

Correct.

However, what does that have to do with this thread topic, specifically? Seems off topic to me.
 
Upvote 0

Sam Gamgee

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2005
1,652
103
53
New Hampshire, United States
Visit site
✟17,350.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Holly3278 said:
Homosexuality is a result of the fall of mankind. It is normal to be a homosexual and is not a sin. It is a sin to engage in homosexual activity. This is my personal opinion!

I respect that opinion. Makes sense to me.

So, using that basis of opinion, how do you view the actual topic at hand?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Sam Gamgee

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2005
1,652
103
53
New Hampshire, United States
Visit site
✟17,350.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Here's more information (a more detailed review of the findings)

Gay men react to pheromones differently than straights

Gay men's brains respond differently than those of heterosexual males when exposed to a sexual smell, researchers have found. The gay men's brains responded more like those of women when they sniffed a chemical from the male hormone testosterone.

"It is one more piece of evidence...that is showing that sexual orientation is not all learned," said Sandra Witelson, an expert on brain anatomy and sexual orientation at the Michael G. DeGroote School of Medicine at McMaster University in Ontario, Canada. Witelson, who was not part of the research team, said the findings clearly show a biological involvement in sexual orientation.

The study, published in Tuesday's issue of Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, was conducted by researchers at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden.

They exposed heterosexual men and women and homosexual men to the smell of chemicals derived from male and female sex hormones. These chemicals are thought to be pheromones--molecules known to trigger responses such as defense and sex in many animals. Whether humans respond to pheromones has been debated, although in 2000 American researchers reported finding a gene that they believe directs a human pheromone receptor in the nose.

The Swedish study was one of a series looking at whether parts of the brain involved in reproduction differ in response to odors and pheromones, lead researcher Ivanka Savic said.

The brains of different groups responded similarly to ordinary odors such as lavender but differed in their response to the chemicals thought to be pheromones, Savic said.

The Swedish researchers divided 36 subjects into three groups: heterosexual men, heterosexual women, and homosexual men. They studied the brain response to sniffing the chemicals, using PET scans. All the subjects were healthy, unmedicated, right-handed, and HIV-negative.

When they sniffed smells like cedar or lavender, all of the subjects' brains reacted only in the olfactory region that handles smells.

But when confronted by a chemical from testosterone, the male hormone, portions of the brains active in sexual activity were activated in straight women and in gay men, but not in straight men, the researchers found.

The response in gay men and straight women was concentrated in the hypothalamus with a maximum in the preoptic area that is active in hormonal and sensory responses necessary for sexual behavior, the researchers said.

And when estrogen, the female hormone was used, there was a response in only the olfactory portion of the brains of straight women. Homosexual men had their primary response also in the olfactory area, with a very small reaction in the hypothalamus, while heterosexual men responded strongly in the reproductive region of the brain.

Savic said the group is also doing a study involving homosexual women; those results are not yet complete.

In a separate study looking at people's response to the body odors of others, researchers in Philadelphia found sharp differences between gay and straight men and women. "Our findings support the contention that gender preference has a biological component that is reflected in both the production of different body odors and in the perception of and response to body odors," said neuroscientist Charles Wysocki, who led the study. In particular, he said, finding differences in body odors between gay and straight individuals indicates a physical difference. It's hard to see how a simple choice to be gay or lesbian would influence the production of body odor, he said.

Wysocki's team at the Monell Chemical Senses Center studied the response of 82 heterosexual and homosexual men and heterosexual and homosexual women to the odors of underarm sweat collected from 24 donors of varied gender and sexual orientation. They found that gay men differed from heterosexual men and women and from lesbian women, both in terms of which body odors gay men preferred and how their own body odors were regarded by the other groups.

Gay men preferred odors from gay men, while odors from gay men were the least preferred by heterosexual men and women and by lesbian women in the study. Their findings, released Monday, are to be published in the journal Psychological Science in September. The Swedish research was funded by the Swedish Medical Research Council, the Karolinska Institute, and the Magnus Bergvall Foundation. Wysocki's research was supported by the Monell Center. (AP)

http://www.advocate.com/news_detail.asp?id=16601
 
Upvote 0

Sam Gamgee

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2005
1,652
103
53
New Hampshire, United States
Visit site
✟17,350.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
cvilleknight said:
I am just stating that the apects that deal with the brain and the research that proves brain patterns,etc cause people to be drawn to the same sex does not justify the sin!

I see
 
Upvote 0

beechy

Senior Veteran
Mar 24, 2005
3,235
264
✟12,390.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
In Relationship
cvilleknight said:
I am just stating that the apects that deal with the brain and the research that proves brain patterns,etc cause people to be drawn to the same sex does not justify the sin!
The idea that homosexuality is a sin, I think, get's to the heart of why the "why" question matters at all. I personally don't care a snit about why I've fallen in love with a person of the same sex, but I understand the political importance of the question.

That is, if homosexuality is considered a sin, practicing homosexuals may seem more culpable if they are straight people that defiantly choose to engage in homosexual relationships, than if those choices have been reached as the result of a distinctly "gay" physiology. A biological explanation for gayness also serves to some extent to bring homosexuality out of the realm of "unnatural" human culture / morality, and into the realm of "nature". Insofar as you believe some measure of choice is involved, however, (that is, you believe that people may or may not have a biological tendency toward being gay, but they ultimately have a choice whether to act on such tendencies), and that homosexuality is a sin, the biological explanations won't matter that much. What matters to you is that certain types of physical relationships are sinful, whether or not some people are born with a marked proclivity toward that sinfulness or not.

I don't personally believe that God forbids same-sex relationships across the board. So I guess my reaction to the article is: Interesting, but a very very small study. Sexuality seems very complicated. I think we're unlikely to come up with answers any time soon. I think our views about sexuality will be influenced by science, but the orientation issue, IMO, is not a question of right or wrong.
 
Upvote 0

Ave Maria

Ave Maria Gratia Plena
May 31, 2004
41,090
1,994
41
Diocese of Evansville, IN
✟108,571.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Sam Gamgee said:
I respect that opinion. Makes sense to me.

So, using that basis of opinion, how do you view the actual topic at hand?

The pheremones? I find it normal.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

morant

Active Member
Apr 18, 2005
94
7
✟249.00
Faith
Non-Denom
One important thing to remember........
it's still a choice......no matter what the cause, no matter what differences are apparent(as if it's a tough one to figure out that gays are dif than strait) no matter what the smell...

you still have to choose to be homosexual...

If you are a man and men 'turn you on' you still have to choose interact.

Most men are turned on by women but we are not all forced to succumb to immoral sex acts no matter what she smells like.......and those of us who do are indeed still frowned on.

So your a gay man....utterly feminine....indisuptably queer......your a male and the though of sex with a female repulses you.....
these factors in themselves do not make you "homosexual".

I believe you can be totally gay and in Gods good grace and decidedly not "homosexual"

does that suck for you?......yup I guess it does.....your 'test' in life is tougher in many ways than mine....sorry.......maybe God has somthing real special for those of you who 'pass'. I think we know what he has in mind for those of you gay guys and gals who make the choice to become and live as a homosexual.
 
Upvote 0

beechy

Senior Veteran
Mar 24, 2005
3,235
264
✟12,390.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
In Relationship
morant said:
you still have to choose to be homosexual...

If you are a man and men 'turn you on' you still have to choose interact.

Most men are turned on by women but we are not all forced to succumb to immoral sex acts no matter what she smells like.......and those of us who do are indeed still frowned on.

So your a gay man....utterly feminine....indisuptably queer......your a male and the though of sex with a female repulses you.....
these factors in themselves do not make you "homosexual".

I believe you can be totally gay and in Gods good grace and decidedly not "homosexual"

does that suck for you?......yup I guess it does.....your 'test' in life is tougher in many ways than mine....sorry.......maybe God has somthing real special for those of you who 'pass'. I think we know what he has in mind for those of you gay guys and gals who make the choice to become and live as a homosexual.
So you're saying that if you're a man and you're attracted to other men and not into women you're "gay", and if you're a man and you're attracted to other men and not into women and you actually have sex with men you're a "homosexual"?
 
Upvote 0

morant

Active Member
Apr 18, 2005
94
7
✟249.00
Faith
Non-Denom
beechy said:
So you're saying that if you're a man and you're attracted to other men and not into women you're "gay", and if you're a man and you're attracted to other men and not into women and you actually have sex with men you're a "homosexual"?

roughly that is my take on it....yes.

Am I suggesting that gays abstain for the duration of their lives?......maybe I am.

Is that too tough to imagine? To hard a thing to grasp? To much to ask?

What about dying on a cross?
 
Upvote 0

beechy

Senior Veteran
Mar 24, 2005
3,235
264
✟12,390.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
In Relationship
morant said:
roughly that is my take on it....yes.

Am I suggesting that gays abstain for the duration of their lives?......maybe I am.

Is that too tough to imagine? To hard a thing to grasp? To much to ask?

What about dying on a cross?
Your position is not uncommon, but your rhetoric is. Most people seem to use "gay" and "homosexual" to mean the same thing, with the distinction being between "practicing gay" and "practicing homosexual" people. (You may want to consider using this terminology, so people know exactly what you're talking about).

In any case, you fall into the philosophical group described in the last two sentences of the second paragraph of my above post #14. That is, since you believe that the Bible says gay sex is always a sin, whether or not there is a biological reason that certain people are more likely to desire it doesn't matter much to you. The bottom line, in your opinion, is that one should never engage in gay sex, regardless of how tempting it is for you in the first place.

These "biology" discussions are significant in that they represent a different idea than has been commonly held in the past regarding why people are sexually attracted to a certain gender (as opposed to why they do or do not act on that attraction).
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Status
Not open for further replies.