Sustainable Living?

GedaliahMaegil

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Did Yeshua favor Essenes, Saducees, or Pharisees? Did He comment on this "perils of mixing"? Were the Essenes, Saducees, or Pharisees part of the body of believers? Did Yeshsua's folllowers come from a mix of each of these religious branches?

In order:

- He favoured Torah. For that reason, he was an equal-opportunity critic of when any of the camps went off the rails.
- Yes, He did comment on the perils of mixing ... in the wilderness.
- I know that Sha`ul, Nakdimon and Yosef from Ramatayim were P`rushim, and they followed the Way. Did others from the `Issiyim or the Tseduqim also join the Way? It's possible.
- Those who came to the Way were also returned to a proper relation to and regard for Torah. Those of the Way were not assimilators; they were the assimilated.
 
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GedaliahMaegil

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Those with "Hebrew Roots" share the Messianic message board here.

But, not with the same status. Messianics get to teach here; Hebrew Roots do not. It's in the SOP ... which you appeared to affirm.
 
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Tone

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But, not with the same status. Messianics get to teach here; Hebrew Roots do not. It's in the SOP ... which you appeared to affirm.

Hey guy,

It might be best if you kick it down a notch or two, because, frankly, you really are making yourself and whoever you think you represent...look bad.

This isn't a teaching thread, so how about you get with the OP or I ask a staff member to help you move along?
 
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Joyous Song

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But, not with the same status. Messianics get to teach here; Hebrew Roots do not. It's in the SOP ... which you appeared to affirm.

JS: Though true Judah taught Israel after all Israel came to Egypt when those with joint Hebrew Roots joined and asked to become full members we were relegated to the same status status. There is a trust issue here. After we left the Messianic movement many of us sought out Judah, and Jewish sites to learn from. We become often more advanced in our keeping of Hahalacha than many of the Jewish believers we once worshiped together ever were.

Still many Messianics here do keep Hahalacha but not all. So perhaps it should be those that have been taught should teach.
 
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GedaliahMaegil

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JS: Though true Judah taught Israel after all Israel came to Egypt when those with joint Hebrew Roots joined and asked to become full members we were relegated to the same status status. There is a trust issue here. After we left the Messianic movement many of us sought out Judah, and Jewish sites to learn from. We become often more advanced in our keeping of Hahalacha than many of the Jewish believers we once worshiped together ever were.

Still many Messianics here do keep Hahalacha but not all. So perhaps it should be those that have been taught should teach.

You don't get to re-write the SOP. Stop.
 
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AbbaLove

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You don't get to re-write the SOP. Stop.
I was here when the SOP was being revised and offered my take.
Still many Messianics here do keep Hahalacha but not all. So perhaps it should be those that have been taught should teach.
Even though i'm a gentile i voiced my opinion as in favor of "(halacha)" being added to the SOP ...
  • Yeshua instructed us to ‘Follow Me’, therefore we leave it to each individual to practice Torah (halacha) in a way that he/she believes Yeshua did.
My reasoning at that time was my understanding that this MJ forum was established primarily for Messianic Jews who still hold to certain [?man-made?] traditions of Judaism ... thus this MJ forums' SOP to welcome those Messianic Jews that honor the age-old religious traditions of Judaism.

There are well-meaning gentile Christians (evangelicals) that may even view "Messianic Judaism" as an oxymoron. Many Messianic congregations have as many or more Messianic gentiles as Messianic Jews. There was a time when those displaying a Christian faith icon were not to debate, but only ask questions and not reply/post on a MJ Only thread. A few years ago members of this MJ forum were advised for the first time that they are to see themselves as Christians who hold to the Trinitarian doctrine. This came as a surprise to some MJs resulting in some departing from this MJ forum.

It would be insightful to know if the Apostle Paul still practiced "halacha" and to what extent ... even honoring the man-made traditions of Judaism. But maybe that's beside the point among todays' Messianic Jews and Messianic Judaism.
 
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Joyous Song

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I was here when the SOP was being revised and offered my take.
Even though i'm a gentile i voiced my opinion as in favor of "(halacha)" being added to the SOP ...
  • Yeshua instructed us to ‘Follow Me’, therefore we leave it to each individual to practice Torah (halacha) in a way that he/she believes Yeshua did.
My reasoning at that time was my understanding that this MJ forum was established primarily for Messianic Jews who still hold to certain [?man-made?] traditions of Judaism ... thus this MJ forums' SOP to welcome those Messianic Jews that honor the age-old religious traditions of Judaism.

There are well-meaning gentile Christians (evangelicals) that may even view "Messianic Judaism" as an oxymoron. Many Messianic congregations have as many or more Messianic gentiles as Messianic Jews. There was a time when those displaying a Christian faith icon were not to debate, but only ask questions and not reply/post on a MJ Only thread. A few years ago members of this MJ forum were advised for the first time that they are to see themselves as Christians who hold to the Trinitarian doctrine. This came as a surprise to some MJs resulting in some departing from this MJ forum.

It would be insightful to know if the Apostle Paul still practiced "halacha" and to what extent ... even honoring the man-made traditions of Judaism. But maybe that's beside the point among todays' Messianic Jews and Messianic Judaism.


JS: I do not have my Bible near me but somewhere Paul states he was indeed a keeper of Torah so the Jews condemning him had no cause. Also the Laws of Moshe were given to him by HaShem or the Moshiach in His preIncarnate form. HaShem is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow and Hahalacha holds until the end of the age we are in right now (the Messianic Age) Matthew Sermon on the Mount).

In fact HaMoshiach said, the rabbis sit upon the seat of Moshe, practice what they say but not what they do. So if He upheld their teaching, who are we to call this "man made"? Just a thought.
 
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Joyous Song

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You don't get to re-write the SOP. Stop.

JS: I said when ousted by the Messianic community choosing genealogy for this identity we sought out Judah, not in Christ to learn from taking back what we learned to HaMoshiach just as Is.28 predicted we would. So our teachers are Judah just not Messianic Jews.

If this Messianic community sees Hahalacha as the source of their identity in Christ then I might listen to them. But not if they fall back on genealogy.
 
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GedaliahMaegil

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JS: I said when ousted by the Messianic community choosing genealogy for this identity we sought out Judah, not in Christ to learn from taking back what we learned to HaMoshiach just as Is.28 predicted we would. So our teachers are Judah just not Messianic Jews.

If this Messianic community sees Hahalacha as the source of their identity in Christ then I might listen to them. But not if they fall back on genealogy.

You are barking up the wrong tree.
 
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GedaliahMaegil

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JS: glad to hear that because Hahalcha is what makes us Israel. Faith is an action word.

No, I mean that your parlance is tantamount to supercessionism. And that isn't tolerated here.
 
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Joyous Song

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No, I mean that your parlance is tantamount to supercessionism. And that isn't tolerated here.

I do not know why, we are siblings not enemies. We should love one another and accept each other. That was not how we were treated but this does not necessarily reflect on those here. We been mostly accepted. Where do you see supercessionism? Exactly what does that word mean?
 
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GedaliahMaegil

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I do not know why, we are siblings not enemies.

According to whom?

We should love one another and accept each other.

According to whom?

That was not how we were treated but this does not necessarily reflect on those here. We been mostly accepted.

Who is "we"?

Where do you see supersessionism?

I see it all over the past 1,900+ years, as committed by religious fanatics.

Exactly what does that word mean?

DuckDuckGo is your friend ...
 
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Joyous Song

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GedaliahMaegilt: According to whom?

I was born part Jewish Part Y'hoshua (according to a dream that was what my mother side comes from). So I have Ephraim and Y'huda within me. I favor my father though. Still both parents are fro Israel or the combined kingdom and even the grafted in technically are, grafted into our family so they are family as well.


GedaliahMaegilt: According to whom?

The Messiah: Love ome another as I have loved you. He said.

GedaliahMaegilt: Who is "we"?

I tend also to identify with the plight of Ephraim. They have been rejected by many Messianic Jews. Still here they mostly found acceptance and have been judged by what they do and how they act. This is why I come here. The leadership also said this is where Ephraim can come to learn and teach if they are being called to.

GedaliahMaegilt: I see it all over the past 1,900+ years, as committed by religious fanatics.

Agreed, and sometimes these were Epharimites trying to come to life too soon. Mostly those they fostered cultic following yet some of these are moving toward the center.

supersessionism DuckDuckGo is your friend ...

Js: I always though replacement Theology was successionism so there was my misunderstanding. Still what exactly is Ephraim trying to replace? We accept Christian doctrines (well most of us do). We love our brothers in Judah and were hurt when they did not accept us as brothers, I've not felt this here at least before now.

Still I know of the Two House Theology and some of these groups are cultish. I also know false Ephrimites or those claiming to be murdering Jews in NY but they do not reflect the actions of us. Indeed, each person should be judged by what they do, and how they act, not by the actions of others.
 
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GedaliahMaegil

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I was born part Jewish Part Y'hoshua (according to a dream that was what my mother side comes from). So I have Ephraim and Y'huda within me. I favor my father though. Still both parents are fro Israel or the combined kingdom and even the grafted in technically are, grafted into our family so they are family as well.

The "two-house" model is soundly rejected by Messianics, because it comes out of a supercessionist mindset that seeks to create those "who say they are Jews but are not".

The Messiah: Love ome another as I have loved you. He said.

That was in reference to those who are my brothers and sisters in the original faith of Messiah Yeshua. It doesn't apply to everyone who comes along and claims some sort of spiritual kinship with me.

I tend also to identify with the plight of Ephraim. They have been rejected by many Messianic Jews. Still here they mostly found acceptance and have been judged by what they do and how they act. This is why I come here. The leadership also said this is where Ephraim can come to learn and teach if they are being called to.

Again, you're borrowing from "two-house theology", which Messianics have rejected.

Agreed, and sometimes these were Epharimites trying to come to life too soon. Mostly those they fostered cultic following yet some of these are moving toward the center.

I don't know what's worse, your continuance in promoting the false "two-house" model or your defense of those fanatics who have persecuted Jews for centuries. Either way, I abhor it.

Js: I always though replacement Theology was successionism so there was my misunderstanding. Still what exactly is Ephraim trying to replace? We accept Christian doctrines (well most of us do). We love our brothers in Judah and were hurt when they did not accept us as brothers, I've not felt this here at least before now.

Still I know of the Two House Theology and some of these groups are cultish. I also know false Ephrimites or those claiming to be murdering Jews in NY but they do not reflect the actions of us. Indeed, each person should be judged by what they do, and how they act, not by the actions of others.

Maybe you can convince the owners of the site to develop a section of the forums for your ... whatever this is. Messianics do not and will not believe what you do.
 
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AbbaLove

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I don't know what's worse, your continuance in promoting the false "two-house" model or your defense of those fanatics who have persecuted Jews for centuries. Either way, I abhor it.
She is not promoting "two-house" theology, but rather it's your misunderstanding of her Jewish ancestry and her posts that's the cause of confusion. When has an evangelical non-Jewish gentile that believes in "two house theology" ever practiced Halalacha ???

You come across as if no person of Jewish ancestry should display a Christian faith icon. A few years ago a CF moderator/administrator informed members of this MJ forum that they are a "Christian" (in the broadest sense) and no non-trinitarian teaching is permitted by "Messianics" in this MJ forum. Rather belief in the Christian trinitarian doctrine by MJ members was an indication they were a "Christian".
I was born part Jewish Part Y'hoshua (according to a dream that was what my mother side comes from). So I have Ephraim and Y'huda within me. I favor my father though. Still both parents are fro Israel or the combined kingdom and even the grafted in technically are, grafted into our family so they are family as well.

0d7df81b5c9ca268af4ea79fc6ff526e.jpg
Can not a Jewish Believer in Yeshua HaMoshiach instruct in this MJ forum if a Christian ???
But, not with the same status. Messianics get to teach here; Hebrew Roots do not. It's in the SOP ... which you appeared to affirm.
Do you think born again Believers of Jewish ancestry have more status in the Kingdom of GOD then do born again Believers of non-Jewish ancestry ???

Your religious beliefs of "status" are NOT Biblical, but rather man-made according to the inspired writings of Paul.
JS: I do not have my Bible near me but somewhere Paul states he was indeed a keeper of Torah so the Jews condemning him had no cause. Also the Laws of Moshe were given to him by HaShem or the Moshiach in His preIncarnate form. HaShem is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow and Hahalacha holds until the end of the age we are in right now (the Messianic Age) Matthew Sermon on the Mount).
In fact HaMoshiach said, the rabbis sit upon the seat of Moshe, practice what they say but not what they do. So if He upheld their teaching, who are we to call this "man made"? Just a thought.
GM is sadly mistaken as to why he thinks JS is "two-house theology"
But, not with the same status. Messianics get to teach here; Hebrew Roots do not. It's in the SOP ... which you appeared to affirm.
It's NOT in the SOP. No where in the SOP is there any mention of "Hebrew Roots" teaching not allowed by a Believer in HaShem and Yeshua HaMoshiach. A Believer of Jewish ancestry that considers herself a "Christian" as well as honoring age old ancestry traditions of Halalacha.
 
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AbbaLove

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In fact HaMoshiach said, the rabbis sit upon the seat of Moshe, practice what they say but not what they do. So if He upheld their teaching, who are we to call this "man made"? Just a thought.
Mark 7:1-13
1
The Pharisees and some of the teachers of the law who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus 2 and saw some of His disciples eating food with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed. 3 (The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders. 4 When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles.) 5 So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, “Why don’t your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with defiled hands?” 6 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’
8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” 9 And He continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ 11 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— 12 then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. 13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

Thus the saying: "Cleanliness is next to Godliness", but what if one's own heart is not as clean as your hands, cups and plates? Both are important, but one's heart more important than man's religious traditions.

Galatians 1:13-16 (Complete Jewish Bible)
13 For you have heard about my former way of life in [traditional] Judaism — how I did my best to persecute God’s Messianic Community and destroy it; 14 and how, since I was more of a zealot for the traditions handed down by my forefathers than most Jews my age, I advanced in [traditional] Judaism more rapidly than they did. 15 But when God, who picked me out before I was born and called me by His grace, chose 16 to reveal His Son to me, so that I might announce Him to the Gentiles, I did not consult anyone;​
 
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AbbaLove

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I was born part Jewish Part Y'hoshua (according to a dream that was what my mother side comes from). So I have Ephraim and Y'huda within me. I favor my father though. Still both parents are fro Israel or the combined kingdom and even the grafted in technically are, grafted into our family so they are family as well.
Having gone back and reread all of your replies I can see why GM mistakenly views your replies as "Two House Theology", but in fact you come across to me as a forerunner advocate of "One House" reunification which is closer now than ever before.

I see your allegory as a reunified "One House" of the Northern Kingdom and the Southern Kingdom as shown in the following diagram which is a beautiful thing to yet come once again as under Solomon ... (1 Kings 4:25, Micah 4:3-4).

www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Two_House/two_house.html
("End Of Days" diagram of two houses becoming One that is yet to come)

It very possible there are already Jewish citizens in Yisra'el of the tribe of Ephraim and more to come ... Deuteronomy 4:27–31, Deuteronomy 30:3, Psalm 107:1–3, Isaiah 43:5–6, Jeremiah 50:4–5 ... when the two kingdoms will once again become "One house" which i believe is what JS is teaching.

That's how i interpret the intent of JS. A beautiful thing when both kingdoms reunite as One House.
images
 
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Joyous Song

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The "two-house" model is soundly rejected by Messianics, because it comes out of a supercessionist mindset that seeks to create those "who say they are Jews but are not".



That was in reference to those who are my brothers and sisters in the original faith of Messiah Yeshua. It doesn't apply to everyone who comes along and claims some sort of spiritual kinship with me.



Again, you're borrowing from "two-house theology", which Messianics have rejected.



I don't know what's worse, your continuance in promoting the false "two-house" model or your defense of those fanatics who have persecuted Jews for centuries. Either way, I abhor it.



Maybe you can convince the owners of the site to develop a section of the forums for your ... whatever this is. Messianics do not and will not believe what you do.


Gadaliah Maegil, you said of Christ’s words: That was in reference to those who are my brothers and sisters in the original faith in the Messiah Yeshua. Ir does not apply to everyone who comes along and claims some sort of Spiritual kinship with me.

JS: I one do not read His words that way, but even if this were true He also said to “love our enemies” which to me suggest we love freely and without reservation. Still I have a question for you. I know in the Moshiach we are saved by grace but how do you define Jewish Identity? Is it by Hahalacha or by inheritance, mother, grandmother, grant grandmother and so on… Thank you for your input.
 
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