Supreme Courts rules in favor of churches

Jonathan Walkerin

Well-Known Member
Feb 12, 2019
3,720
2,772
44
Stockholm
✟72,396.00
Country
Sweden
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Other people going to church has zero effect on you.

Until they get infected and spread the virus to others outside their church community.

Certainly this is not hard logic to grasp ?
 
Upvote 0

Redwingfan9

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2019
2,629
1,532
Midwest
✟70,636.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Until they get infected and spread the virus to others outside their church community.

Certainly this is not hard logic to grasp ?
We cannot shut society down because of something that might happen. Life is full of risks, you cannot control the risks other people take. If you're afraid of the virus, stay at home. But don't you dare tell me and other believers that we may not worship as God commands us to do in order to appease your fears.
 
Upvote 0

Brightmoon

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.
Mar 2, 2018
6,297
5,539
NYC
✟151,950.00
Country
United States
Faith
Episcopalian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
You could video conference the church service and mail in your offerings . Honestly no one is telling you to stop believing in your religion. You’re Pointlessly risking your life or health for a stupid reason and you’re endangering others by this stupid behavior. Yes I do understand that some people can’t afford or know how to use the Internet . The Pastor can call or they can call him/ her . Yes it’s inconvenient but no ones lives are endangered by doing that.
 
Upvote 0

Wolseley

Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu
Feb 5, 2002
21,118
5,608
63
By the shores of Gitchee-Goomee
✟275,937.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You could video conference the church service and mail in your offerings . Honestly no one is telling you to stop believing in your religion. You’re Pointlessly risking your life or health for a stupid reason and you’re endangering others by this stupid behavior. Yes I do understand that some people can’t afford or know how to use the Internet . The Pastor can call or they can call him/ her . Yes it’s inconvenient but no ones lives are endangered by doing that.

For many people, their faith is their life; they need to worship God in a setting reserved for Him. But if videoconferencing is that effective, let's do the same thing with dining: you could videoconference a nice meal on the table, choose whatever you wanted on the menu, and you'd be able to see your meal being put down in front of you. (You wouldn't be able to smell it, of course, but some sacrifices have to be made.) Then at the end of the videoconference, your bill would flash up on the screen, and you could mail your payment to the restaurant. This way, nobody actually goes out in public and places anyone else at risk for infection. No one is telling you to stop eating and drinking; this way, you won't be pointlessly risking your life or health for a stupid reason or endangering others by this stupid behavior. And as an added benefit, you'll be improving your health by losing weight! It's a win-win-win for everybody, all way 'round.
 
Upvote 0

Jonathan Walkerin

Well-Known Member
Feb 12, 2019
3,720
2,772
44
Stockholm
✟72,396.00
Country
Sweden
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
But don't you dare tell me and other believers that we may not worship as God commands us to do in order to appease your fears.

Rubbish. I didn’t tell you anything about how to worship God any more than saying I was afraid.

Merely saying that your assertion that people going to mass church gatherings wouldn’t affect others was incorrect and illogical.

Please refrain from juvenile personal attacks if you can.
 
Upvote 0

Redwingfan9

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2019
2,629
1,532
Midwest
✟70,636.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Rubbish. I didn’t tell you anything about how to worship God any more than saying I was afraid.

Merely saying that your assertion that people going to mass church gatherings wouldn’t affect others was incorrect and illogical.

Please refrain from juvenile personal attacks if you can.
Except that it doesn't affect others and even if it did we are called on by God to worship him publicly via corporate worship. It is far more important for believers to be at church, worshipping God and fellowshiping with the saints. That Christians think its okay to forsake gathering together over this virus is a testament to how little belivers value worship. I have long argued against the American view of church, that it's a commodity or product that we shop around for and ditch when it no longer suits our personal preferences or tastes. When people give up on church because of a virus what they're really saying is that the commodity isn't worth the risk. That is a sad state of affairs for the church. At least now the Supreme Court has signaled that it will not tolerate tyrannical dictators shutting down churches.
 
Upvote 0

loveofourlord

Newbie
Feb 15, 2014
8,125
4,529
✟269,957.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
At one point attendance at St. Patrick's Cathedral was limited to 10 persons. I don't believe any such restriction was placed on liquor stores and abortion mills, both of which were deemed 'essential' by the governor. Even with this ruling the churches are limited to 50% capacity, so I don't think disease prevention is in jeopardy.

Geee....most stores have a 4 customer limit, plus spot the difference.

5 minutes in a store with distancing.
2 hours in a church singing and still distancing but probably only 6 feet and many ignoring that.

There have been MANY outbreaks due to churches this isn't just conjecture, every few weeks early on there was people dying from choirs and church meetings and pastors.
 
Upvote 0

loveofourlord

Newbie
Feb 15, 2014
8,125
4,529
✟269,957.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Except that it doesn't affect others and even if it did we are called on by God to worship him publicly via corporate worship. It is far more important for believers to be at church, worshipping God and fellowshiping with the saints. That Christians think its okay to forsake gathering together over this virus is a testament to how little belivers value worship. I have long argued against the American view of church, that it's a commodity or product that we shop around for and ditch when it no longer suits our personal preferences or tastes. When people give up on church because of a virus what they're really saying is that the commodity isn't worth the risk. That is a sad state of affairs for the church. At least now the Supreme Court has signaled that it will not tolerate tyrannical dictators shutting down churches.

I suspect god would rather you stay home then kill your fellow believers, but that's just me. I doubt he's going to reward ignoring public health safety for the image of being pious. God seemed to have a dislike in the bible of hypocrits.
 
  • Like
Reactions: john23237
Upvote 0

Ignatius the Kiwi

Dissident
Mar 2, 2013
7,056
3,767
✟290,234.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
I suspect god would rather you stay home then kill your fellow believers, but that's just me. I doubt he's going to reward ignoring public health safety for the image of being pious. God seemed to have a dislike in the bible of hypocrits.

Do you think Christians shouldn't go to grocery stores as well?
 
Upvote 0

Hank77

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2015
26,396
15,479
✟1,106,853.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Except that it doesn't affect others and even if it did we are called on by God to worship him publicly via corporate worship. It is far more important for believers to be at church, worshipping God and fellowshiping with the saints. That Christians think its okay to forsake gathering together over this virus is a testament to how little belivers value worship. I have long argued against the American view of church, that it's a commodity or product that we shop around for and ditch when it no longer suits our personal preferences or tastes. When people give up on church because of a virus what they're really saying is that the commodity isn't worth the risk. That is a sad state of affairs for the church. At least now the Supreme Court has signaled that it will not tolerate tyrannical dictators shutting down churches.
In the OT, especially in Leviticus, God makes very clear commands for what to do when there is an infectious disease. It's clear that He is for fighting it in any way possible, even to putting people out of the camp until they are healed. One verse says that even after they come back into the camp they must remain outside their tent for another seven days. He was more concerned with not spreading disease than people meeting together with other worshippers.
Our faith and the church isn't so weak that we can't hold it together for another few months unless we have so little faith in God that He won't hold us up and cause us to stand even though He says He will.

Leviticus 14:8
The one being cleansed must wash his clothes, shave off all his hair, and bathe with water; then he will be clean. Afterward, he may enter the camp, but he must remain outside his tent for seven days.

This was for skin disease, what might He say about an airborne disease, a disease that can be spread from people with no symptoms at all?
I believe from what I read in the Bible is that God would want us to do what is prudent and adhere to 'best practices' to not infect others.
 
  • Like
Reactions: john23237
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Redwingfan9

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2019
2,629
1,532
Midwest
✟70,636.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
I suspect god would rather you stay home then kill your fellow believers, but that's just me. I doubt he's going to reward ignoring public health safety for the image of being pious. God seemed to have a dislike in the bible of hypocrits.
What Biblical evidence do you have for the proposition that God would rather we not go to worship?
 
Upvote 0

Redwingfan9

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2019
2,629
1,532
Midwest
✟70,636.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
In the OT, especially in Leviticus, God makes very clear commands for what to do when there is an infectious disease. It's clear that He is for fighting it in any way possible, even to putting people out of the camp until they are healed. One verse says that even after they come back into the camp they must remain outside their tent for another seven days. He was more concerned with not spreading disease than people meeting together with other worshippers.
Our faith and the church isn't so weak that we can't hold it together for another few months unless we have so little faith in God that He won't hold us up and cause us to stand even though He says He will.

Leviticus 14:8
The one being cleansed must wash his clothes, shave off all his hair, and bathe with water; then he will be clean. Afterward, he may enter the camp, but he must remain outside his tent for seven days.

This was for skin disease, what might He say about an airborne disease, a disease that can be spread from people with no symptoms at all?
I believe from what I read in the Bible is that God would want us to do what is prudent and adhere to 'best practices' to not infect others.
You may be able to argue that those who know they are sick should stay home based on this passage, though that's a stretch considering this is specific to skin conditions and was ceremonial in nature. I'm not arguing for the known sick to show up at church, I'm arguing for everyone else to show up at church. We can't hide in our homes, fearful of what might be outside. God doesn't tell us to not foresake meeting with the saints, except when virus hysteria sweeps the land. We must be the level headed ones, we have something much greater to offer the world and the saints at church. We have eternal life to look forward to and we must be allowed to freely worship our creator corporately, virus or no virus.
 
Upvote 0

Hank77

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2015
26,396
15,479
✟1,106,853.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You may be able to argue that those who know they are sick should stay home based on this passage, though that's a stretch considering this is specific to skin conditions and was ceremonial in nature.
That one verse is about skin disease many others are not they include diseases such as leprosy and others that are observable. I don't know why you would think they are ceremonial practices, God didn't give them as ceremony any more than He did laws about theft, or what should be done if someone's animal kills someone.
I'm not arguing for the known sick to show up at church, I'm arguing for everyone else to show up at church.
With this disease one can't always know that they are sick, neither can they know if someone else is sick. Do you think that the President or Herman Cain knew that the person who gave them coVid was sick? Did Benson Carson know that the person he was hanging out with was sick, did the spreader themself know at the time that they were sick and could give to Dr. Carson, the President, or Herman Cain? They had to have caught it from someone else...and every one of those people caught it from someone else.
God was for stopping the spread of disease.
 
Upvote 0

loveofourlord

Newbie
Feb 15, 2014
8,125
4,529
✟269,957.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
What Biblical evidence do you have for the proposition that God would rather we not go to worship?

Who said not worship, in 2020 you can do it from home with technology. I don't think he consider worship so important that you send some of your church to see him out of neglegence.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

loveofourlord

Newbie
Feb 15, 2014
8,125
4,529
✟269,957.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
You may be able to argue that those who know they are sick should stay home based on this passage, though that's a stretch considering this is specific to skin conditions and was ceremonial in nature. I'm not arguing for the known sick to show up at church, I'm arguing for everyone else to show up at church. We can't hide in our homes, fearful of what might be outside. God doesn't tell us to not foresake meeting with the saints, except when virus hysteria sweeps the land. We must be the level headed ones, we have something much greater to offer the world and the saints at church. We have eternal life to look forward to and we must be allowed to freely worship our creator corporately, virus or no virus.

Except that many are sick but don't show it and spread, this is a known factor and in fact one of the leading causes to church outbreaks. But again pretend to care about others unless your expected to do your own duty.
 
Upvote 0

Ignatius the Kiwi

Dissident
Mar 2, 2013
7,056
3,767
✟290,234.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Again do you know the difference between 10-20 mins in a grocery store vs 2 hours singing and shouting in a church?
You're still risking your life and others, per your standard by going to the groceries and being around people. Not only that, there are compound factors. Did you drive there? You risk crashing or someone crashing into you. You risk running over someone or someone running in front of your car. Are you walking in rainy weather? You risk slipping and killing yourself.

Seems to me, since we're not allowed to take the risk to us or ourselves to worship in Church, why should we take any risk in doing anything? Lives matter more than the content of those lives. Stay home and never leave. Much safer. Right?
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Wolseley
Upvote 0

loveofourlord

Newbie
Feb 15, 2014
8,125
4,529
✟269,957.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
You're still risking your life and others, per your standard by going to the groceries and being around people. Not only that, there are compound factors. Did you drive there? You risk crashing or someone crashing into you. You risk running over someone or someone running in front of your car. Are you walking in rainy weather? You risk slipping and killing yourself.

Seems to me, since we're not allowed to take the risk to us or ourselves to worship in Church, why should we take any risk in doing anything? Lives matter more than the content of those lives. Stay home and never leave. Much safer. Right?

2000 people dying a day and all you can do is childish whining. If you can't figure out why your wrong yet then your hopeless. Definetly not showing your Christain caring.
 
Upvote 0

Ignatius the Kiwi

Dissident
Mar 2, 2013
7,056
3,767
✟290,234.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
2000 people dying a day and all you can do is childish whining. If you can't figure out why your wrong yet then your hopeless. Definetly not showing your Christain caring.
I think you dont have Christian commonsense or bravery. Corona isnt Ebola, it isnt something that kills everyone who has it.

This is worse than the flue but not by a margin that is significant, yet who is arguing Chirches should be locked down on the basis that they might spread the flu, which apparently killed sixty thousand people in 2017-2018?

You can't live your life without taking a risk assessment of the situation and limiting a cathedral which can hold up to a thousand people to 25 persons is irrational and hysterical. Remember what Christ said, we cannot live on Bread alone. People need divine worship.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

loveofourlord

Newbie
Feb 15, 2014
8,125
4,529
✟269,957.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I think you dont have Christian commonsense or bravery. Corona isnt Ebola, it isnt something that kills everyone who has it.

This is worse than the flue but not by a margin that is significant, yet who is arguing Chirches should be locked down on the basis that they might spread the flu, which apparently killed sixty thousand people in 2017-2018?

You can't live your life without taking a risk assessment of the situation and limiting a cathedral which can hold up to a thousand people to 25 persons is irrational and hysterical. Remember what Christ said, we cannot live on Bread alone. People need divine worship.

common sense ist just a word used when your arguing for something stupid. what ever happened to life is precious and we should care about everyone. Sure makes Christians look like hypocrites when you whine about saving lives.

There is a difference between taking nescary risks and taking unescary risks that kill others.
 
Upvote 0