Supreme Court upholds health care law

[SearchingStudent]

Yes you can vote for who ever you want to.

Jesus DID NOT teach that government should tax it's people to help the poor, that is the job for each individual to do via the church.

Helping the poor via government is the way the god of this world wants it done.

The poor will end up getting the shaft.


SearchingStudent--
The amount that I do or do not do to help the poor is non of any one's business. It is between myself and God, I do not need your or any one's thanks and praise.

Then, like others I have challenged...give away 20% of your time, talent and treasure. Don't tell me about it, just do it. Go get your hands dirty. Maybe if more Christians did that, then the gov't wouldn't have to step in and do what is defined as "true religion"...go look it up. I'm not going to thank you for doing what I consider just about the bare minimum to care for one's brothers and sisters...

And, the "god of this world" has gov't helping the poor because he got the Christians to believe in their own god...mammon!!!! Maybe if you didn't worship those little pieces of paper, the "god of this world" wouldn't have to forcefully take it from you to help others.

 

[dogs4thewin]

So...get off the dole and start paying in. And, explain to a hungry child that they get to starve to death because you don't think it's "right" for them to eat. What about all the babies that will be born because your ilk would deny birth-control? What about after they're born? Are they less after birth? They have needs. Unfortunately, people mess up and create little humans they have no resources to care for. You'd rather see them starve and die?

What wonderful Christian "compassion". Give me a break.

I WILL help them on my own FREE will, but far too many people ABUSE the system. To keep people from abusing it just deny it to EVERYONE except by one's birthday. That is MUCH harder to fake. As for people making mistakes in most cases(except rape) they had a choice if you can't afford them do not have them and if you do or find yourself unable to afford to care for them at a later time do NOT have any more. There are mistakes and then there is being careless. I WILL help them, but I am NOT going to help someone who will not help themselves and the only way to ensure that is through donations and LOCAL not federal or state but LOCAL taxes.

By the way, you say people do not donate. Why is it then that at my school the general population raises 1000s every year for missions? The SCM (School of Christian Ministries) (which is roughly 10% of the school population or under 100 student raise 1000s for missions (local and otherwise) In a different service, so some SCM majors give during the general chapel as well. By the way, I personally give probably at LEAST half my money to such causes as WELL as my time, and resources. not half my time and resources but some. This has in the past included making sandwiches for the homeless, going to the homeless ministry when it was AND was NOT my practicum, donating cakes to feed the homeless (from where father works however I did asks him about it and he brought them home as well as money for socks. Also if people will not donate their money AND time then please explain to me why it is that when the schools plans "fun" activities going on retreats and stuff, many times it is canceled for lack of interested and yet when they plan a ministry activity that is RARELY if EVER the case. Explain to me why it is if people will not donate their money and time that many students each year give up their spring break/part of their Christmas break and/or part of their summer to go on missions trips local and otherwise. In all semesters but one I have been directly or indirectly involved in at least two ministries my practicum and another. I had planned to actually do my practicum and be directly involved in another ministry (however due to a problem and the supervisor wanting me to get used to different ministry settings I got permission from my instructor to do something else for my practicum (which I am already in contact with someone about. I still plan to be indirectly involved in safe house the inner-city ministry to the homeless. You asks why I do not take the bus or walk places? A power chair in a rural area is the answer I cannot walk very far( as in even a city block) I use a chair ( due to my CP) You cannot take a power chair on the roads over long distances (I can cross the road in it but other than that) The CP with my eyesight and seizures by the way also means I lack motor skills. I do not have the small motor OR reaction time to drive a car safely. So yes I am doing what I can for my current situation which is in school, waiting to get an education so I can get off the check ( which my parents do not WANT me to) I am doing the best I can with my various limitations and gifts to put my money where my mouth is. You do realize too that most of the people donating that money and time are college students UNDER 25. Therefore they have full time class loads (usually 15 hours) sometimes less sometimes more and various other (probably more fun things) that they could do with their free time. Explain to me how if people do not donate their time and money explain to me how this post could be true.

here check this out

Campus Outreach | Emmanuel College
and these are some of the SCHOOL-wide ministries offered. These are not all of the school ministries and there are some that are (in general) related to a particular major ( like Safe House I mentioned earlier (USUALLY for SCM) Though non-majors are welcomed if they have room in the van.

So now explain to me how it can after reading that people do not donate money, time, talents, help people out in various ways ECT?

 

[SearchingStudent]

15 hour class load...groovy...been there, done that along with a full time job and a family. I STILL had time to lead a cub scout troop, teach sunday school and be involved in various other things.

The "abuse" of the system you talk about is a SMALL fraction, VERY SMALL. There's more fraud on Capitol Hill.

You are young, naive and haven't lived...If it hadn't been for various social programs, my kids would have been living in the streets and hungry. Through no fault of my own, but a psycho x-husband, me and the kids ended up living in a mini-van in a park. Welfare, food stamps and housing got us through and gave the gov't teeth to go after my X and MAKE him pay after he refused. Through those social programs you want to get rid of, I was able to go back to school and end up with a job making a darn good living. I've paid back every dime I ever got in benefits. How? By working full time, going to school full time, and still attempting to give back. Since then, I've met literally hundreds of women like me (in just one city) who found themselves destitute after a husband/boyfriend decided to split and leave her and the children out in the cold (sometimes literally).

If EVERY Christian donated 20% of their time, talent and treasure (yes, come up off the $$) then these social programs wouldn't be needed...but, since the Christians worship mammon more than they worship Christ, that ain't gonna happen.

So...your "idea" is half-baked and definitely not based in reality.

 

[dogs4thewin]

15 hour class load...groovy...been there, done that along with a full time job and a family. I STILL had time to lead a cub scout troop, teach sunday school and be involved in various other things.

The "abuse" of the system you talk about is a SMALL fraction, VERY SMALL. There's more fraud on Capitol Hill.

You are young, naive and haven't lived...If it hadn't been for various social programs, my kids would have been living in the streets and hungry. Through no fault of my own, but a psycho x-husband, me and the kids ended up living in a mini-van in a park. Welfare, food stamps and housing got us through and gave the gov't teeth to go after my X and MAKE him pay after he refused. Through those social programs you want to get rid of, I was able to go back to school and end up with a job making a darn good living. I've paid back every dime I ever got in benefits. How? By working full time, going to school full time, and still attempting to give back. Since then, I've met literally hundreds of women like me (in just one city) who found themselves destitute after a husband/boyfriend decided to split and leave her and the children out in the cold (sometimes literally).

If EVERY Christian donated 20% of their time, talent and treasure (yes, come up off the $$) then these social programs wouldn't be needed...but, since the Christians worship mammon more than they worship Christ, that ain't gonna happen.

So...your "idea" is half-baked and definitely not based in reality.

Ok great for you HOWEVER some of us cannot do that. I am telling you at times I can hardly handle a full class load ( 15 hours ) Yes I have had at least one seizure as a result of the stress and was NOT because I waited until the last minute to do the work it was rather because I tried to do it all at one time. Great that you can do that I REALLY respect that however not everyone can maintain that level of commitments. I will say that when I DO make a commitment I stick with it and if it becomes clear I cannot I always either tell or have someone else tell. Like the time I had that seizure somewhere between stress and grief and I told EVERY person to whom I had a remaining commitment that day why I may or may not be there. If you want another example, I will PM you as it is personal.

 

[SearchingStudent]

You don't have to PM me, you just need to admit that there are people who would be homeless, starving, sick and dying w/o gov't help because the churches are too busy holding on to their $. I know that for a FACT. Went to my church after the episode above, and the priest wouldn't even buy my kids a hotdog. AND the guy drove a Mercedes...

So...given my experiences with "Christians" especially the hard right-wingers, I'll throw my lot in w/the gov't rather than depending on some Christian group to come to my aid if I ever need it again. No thanks. Big bunch of hypocrites. They rank right up there with Aaron and the ancient Israelites who decided to build a fertility god instead of waiting on Moses to come down from the mountain. "Christians" (read right-wing tea party selfish jerks) spell their god MONEY. They're quite fond of the portraits of dead white guys while attempting to force their version of "morality" on everybody else and they don't even live that way...

Whatever...

 

[athenken]

You don't have to PM me, you just need to admit that there are people who would be homeless, starving, sick and dying w/o gov't help because the churches are too busy holding on to their $. I know that for a FACT. Went to my church after the episode above, and the priest wouldn't even buy my kids a hotdog. AND the guy drove a Mercedes...

So...given my experiences with "Christians" especially the hard right-wingers, I'll throw my lot in w/the gov't rather than depending on some Christian group to come to my aid if I ever need it again. No thanks. Big bunch of hypocrites. They rank right up there with Aaron and the ancient Israelites who decided to build a fertility god instead of waiting on Moses to come down from the mountain. "Christians" (read right-wing tea party selfish jerks) spell their god MONEY. They're quite fond of the portraits of dead white guys while attempting to force their version of "morality" on everybody else and they don't even live that way...

Whatever...

Be careful about your assumptions. I know a good number of churches where the majority of their budgets to toward missions of one type or another.

 

[dogs4thewin]

You don't have to PM me, you just need to admit that there are people who would be homeless, starving, sick and dying w/o gov't help because the churches are too busy holding on to their $. I know that for a FACT. Went to my church after the episode above, and the priest wouldn't even buy my kids a hotdog. AND the guy drove a Mercedes...

So...given my experiences with "Christians" especially the hard right-wingers, I'll throw my lot in w/the gov't rather than depending on some Christian group to come to my aid if I ever need it again. No thanks. Big bunch of hypocrites. They rank right up there with Aaron and the ancient Israelites who decided to build a fertility god instead of waiting on Moses to come down from the mountain. "Christians" (read right-wing tea party selfish jerks) spell their god MONEY. They're quite fond of the portraits of dead white guys while attempting to force their version of "morality" on everybody else and they don't even live that way...

Whatever...

As stated below your last post that depends on the church. I can look at our church budget and tell you we give to VARIOUS places not to mention take up free will love offerings from time to time.

 

[Lovely Lane]

Be careful about your assumptions. I know a good number of churches where the majority of their budgets to toward missions of one type or another.

What type of missions, Foreign or Domestic? And what services are they providing 24/7, 365?

What gets me is Church career, and that is what it is anymore, a career.
With all the trouble and need here in the States, the majority of church work (if not all churches) only happens a day or two a week. Then the doors are closed.
If they really wanted to put a dent in helping those in need the doors should be open 24/7,365 just like WalMart. WalMart is serious about their business, why isn't the church? just askin'

 

[SearchingStudent]

Missions? What a colossal waste of time and $. What about getting dirty in the inner city? Or are the druggies, drunks and destitute not worth your time?

You decry the $ spent on social programs here at home and throw money at far flung countries around the world. How about cleaning up your own back yard before you go fussing about someone else's front yard.

Again...flinging money at the poor savages around the world is a "feel good" thing. But, heaven forbid you go into your own inner city, a domestic violence shelter, or a homeless shelter.

I am SICK of people whining about supposed "fraud" in the system when the biggest frauds going are these so-called Christians who won't lift a finger for the poor guy standing on the street corner. Can't give him money because he might buy booze, but you'll go buy yourself the newest ipod or iphone.

Get over your self-righteousness and open your eyes to where your treasure is. That's where you'll find your heart. (Hint...it has nothing to do with any social justice and everything to do with your bank account and the toys you have)

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

By the way, you say people do not donate. Why is it then that at my school the general population raises 1000s every year for missions?

I have personally witnessed many of the "missions" done by the church. For instance, going to the tropical isle of Peurto Rico, staying in beautiful tiki type huts with a/c and bug protection, and witnessing to folks who have heard the Gospel since they were babies. Sure, perhaps the missonaries brought one back into the fold, but we send thousands of missionaries across the globe to areas where the Gospel is readily preached already, and local missions witness to the lost/lukewarm regularly.

Now, these trips are expensive for the church, as are local food shelter missions, but having to choose whether to send 12 mbrs of the youth group and 2 deacons to any aread where the Gospel is readily available and preached regularly as well......well........there are priorities, and obviously feeding the drunkard and giving him shelter or providing supplemental help like paying utilities for large working poor families should take precedence over vacations(missions to tropical paradises) and new stained glass windows (adorning herself in precious jewels).

It has become obvious the church has failed to meet the demand of the poor, but it's certainly not due to lack of resources, but rather the same lack of prioritizing the very group denounces the govt of.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

I have personally witnessed many of the "missions" done by the church. For instance, going to the tropical isle of Peurto Rico, staying in beautiful tiki type huts with a/c and bug protection, and witnessing to folks who have heard the Gospel since they were babies. Sure, perhaps the missonaries brought one back into the fold, but we send thousands of missionaries across the globe to areas where the Gospel is readily preached already, and local missions witness to the lost/lukewarm regularly.

Now, these trips are expensive for the church, as are local food shelter missions, but having to choose whether to send 12 mbrs of the youth group and 2 deacons to any aread where the Gospel is readily available and preached regularly as well......well........there are priorities, and obviously feeding the drunkard and giving him shelter or providing supplemental help like paying utilities for large working poor families should take precedence over vacations(missions to tropical paradises) and new stained glass windows (adorning herself in precious jewels).

It has become obvious the church has failed to meet the demand of the poor, but it's certainly not due to lack of resources, but rather the same lack of prioritizing the very group denounces the govt of.

I must say I have seen the same thing. A very old and dear friend of mine was really on fire to do a missions trip overseas. It would have meant he'd be gone when his wife was going to deliver their baby. He asked me what he should do! I told him (this is the short version) to be with his wife and child. Sickness and health and all that.

There is a mentality out there that missions are important. And they are. But they need to be done wisely. And not at the expense of those in need of help right in front of us.

 

[dogs4thewin]

How were things run BEFORE the social programs that the government provides came to be? Most came about as a result of the Great Depression meaning that there was nearly 150 years before any of it. How were things done? Same way I am suggesting they be done now. By the way I also plan to minister to a group most people do not. There are over 2 MILLION of them in this country. Those would be inmates they are a bit like the homeless no one wants to deal with them I do. I WILL help and I DO, actually sometimes I have been known to want to do too much. Therefore do NOT try to tell me I do not do want to do or plan to do anything ministry wise in my community.

 

[Lovely Lane]

How were things run BEFORE the social programs that the government provides came to be? Most came about as a result of the Great Depression meaning that there was nearly 150 years before any of it. How were things done? Same way I am suggesting they be done now. By the way I also plan to minister to a group most people do not. There are over 2 MILLION of them in this country. Those would be inmates they are a bit like the homeless no one wants to deal with them I do. I WILL help and I DO, actually sometimes I have been known to want to do too much. Therefore do NOT try to tell me I do not do want to do or plan to do anything ministry wise in my community.

hey, I think you are onto something here, go with it. I'd like to hear more. How were things done?

Ministering to the inmates, great job ALLorNOTHINGatall4CHRIST!

 

[Hammster]

MOD HAT ON

Wouldn't it be neat if professing Christians could have a political discussion without insults and snide remarks? That would awesome.

But, alas. It hasn't happened here. Even after the last clean up and mod hat. So we are closing the thread.

Keep in mind that this is in lieu of issuing warnings. But if you want to keep posting at CF during this political season (and y'all know you do), try keeping it civil. Remember, these are the folks you'll be spending eternity with.



MOD HAT OFF