Supreme Court Protects Babies With Heartbeats By Allowing Texas’ Six-Week Abortion Ban

[Aldebaran]

Viability always means the same thing, the ability to live on it's own outside the womb.

Outside the womb, off a ventilator, without medication, without food....

Many new standards can be invented to determine who deserves to live, and who needs to die. I guess we just have to hope we don't someday fall into one of the latest politically-motivated definition.

 

[Aldebaran]

Ahh yes. Talking for the babies.

The babies who you have no ACTUAL investment in whatsoever. You can put words into the mouths of the unborn and claim you are speaking to them.
The babies that, once born, you have no meaningful interest in helping with tax dollars or social programs; whose parents you castigate and judge.

You don't know me, and therefore have no basis to judge me.

As I've said, I've worked with plenty of people who are angry they were born. As sad as it is, it is a presumption to htink everyone wnats to be alive or be born.

Those who are born have the option to no longer live. So don't feel too bad for those who actually have a chance to live.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Ahh yes. Talking for the babies.

The babies who you have no ACTUAL investment in whatsoever. You can put words into the mouths of the unborn and claim you are speaking to them.
The babies that, once born, you have no meaningful interest in helping with tax dollars or social programs; whose parents you castigate and judge.

As I've said, I've worked with plenty of people who are angry they were born. As sad as it is, it is a presumption to htink everyone wnats to be alive or be born.

That's a specious and nonsensical argument. "You don't care about babies because you do not support (some tax program favored by those with whom I agree politically)"

Nonsense.

Unless YOU have helped anyone pay for some diapers or paid the rent for some new parent, you have no credibility here. Jesus told the Church to help their own, not the government to create new programs.

Unless you have personally paid to help some new parent yourself, please stop.

 

[rambot]

You don't know me, and therefore have no basis to judge me.

1.And yet you judge a woman going into a clinic to get a procedure done
2. I'm judging the conservative position that social programs are terrible/a waste/should be cut and that "some" poor people are lazy.

Those who are born have the option to no longer live. So don't feel too bad for those who actually have a chance to live.

THERE is a statement of priviledge. It ALWAYS comes at some point. "Listen don't complain. At least your alive".
Pfffffft.
You really don't know how awful some people's lives are do you? I can tell you stories I heard from 10 year old that would make your skin crawl but was their daily living.

You do not have the right to tell me I shouldn't feel bad for people whose lives are terrible.

How SHOULD I feel about them?

That's a specious and nonsensical argument. "You don't care about babies because you do not support (some tax program favored by those with whom I agree politically)"

It is neither specious nor nonsensical. And certainly NOT just because you proclaim them to be without putting any effort into justifying your pronouncement.

Unless YOU have helped anyone pay for some diapers or paid the rent for some new parent, you have no credibility here. Jesus told the Church to help their own, not the government to create new programs.

Oh you! That's so cute.
I politically disagree with you so CLEARLY I've never helped a single mother or the parent of a new child. I have actually done it several times at LEAST to say nothing of the likely hundreds of meal trains I have participated in for new mothers or other supports I've helped with.

I ALSO want my tax dollars going to help single mothers, orphans and widows. Can I take it as read that you would rather your money be spent on armoured vehicles for the police and multimillion dollar drone bombers instead? Or maybe you LOVE the idea that single mothers, orphans, widows, the vulnerable and the outcasts ABSOLUTELY should be getting tax dollars. Maybe you think new mothers in challenging positions ABSOLUTELY SHOULD get monetary support from the government. Maybe you recognize that for a new mother in a dicey situation, employment is actually NOT their greatest necessity and you totally understand that they need to work on nurturing and caring for their newborn baby for the first year and you support nationalized maternity to support new moms.
But I don't know you. What IS your opinion on monetary support for compromised populations?

Unless you have personally paid to help some new parent yourself, please stop.

Unless you have SINGLEHANDEDLY resolved all issues around poverty, "please stop".

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

1.
...

You do not have the right to tell me I shouldn't feel bad for people whose lives are terrible.

How SHOULD I feel about them?

It is neither specious nor nonsensical. And certainly NOT just because you proclaim them to be without putting any effort into justifying your pronouncement.
Oh you! That's so cute.
I politically disagree with you so CLEARLY I've never helped a single mother or the parent of a new child. I have actually done it several times at LEAST to say nothing of the likely hundreds of meal trains I have participated in for new mothers or other supports I've helped with.

...Maybe you recognize that for a new mother in a dicey situation, employment is actually NOT their greatest necessity and you totally understand that they need to work on nurturing and caring for their newborn baby for the first year and you support nationalized maternity to support new moms.
But I don't know you. What IS your opinion on monetary support for compromised populations?


Unless you have SINGLEHANDEDLY resolved all issues around poverty, "please stop".

Ha ha. Always moving the goalposts.

Since I - or your beloved politicians - have not resolved all issues around poverty - something that will never be done - then one should just ignore political propaganda disguised as "caring" for the mothers and babies.

Some are fine with killing them in the womb, though.

How do I feel? I think young mothers should get a lot more support, as they do in other cultures, not just monetary support either.

 

[rambot]

Ha ha. Always moving the goalposts.

Since I - or your beloved politicians - have not resolved all issues around poverty - something that will never be done - then one should just ignore political propaganda disguised as "caring" for the mothers and babies.

I ABSOLUTELY agree with this. I think the programs SHOULD be caring and monetarily supporting mothers and babies; not being disguised as caring for them.
Do you agree or do you prefer terrible policy that doesn't help people?

Some are fine with killing them in the womb, though.

There are no babies in wombs. Those are called fetuses and blastocytes, depending on when you get to them.

How do I feel? I think young mothers should get a lot more support, as they do in other cultures, not just monetary support either.

Boy I would love to hear what that looks like and where that monetary support for it comes from!

 

[Aldebaran]

1.And yet you judge a woman going into a clinic to get a procedure done
2. I'm judging the conservative position that social programs are terrible/a waste/should be cut and that "some" poor people are lazy.

THERE is a statement of priviledge. It ALWAYS comes at some point. "Listen don't complain. At least your alive".
Pfffffft.

I stand by the fact that those who are allowed to be born have a chance at life, while those who are aborted have had that chance taken from them by someone else.

You really don't know how awful some people's lives are do you? I can tell you stories I heard from 10 year old that would make your skin crawl but was their daily living.

You do not have the right to tell me I shouldn't feel bad for people whose lives are terrible.

How SHOULD I feel about them?

Something NOT along the lines of, "Oh, those poor people have it so rough. If only they had been aborted, they'd be so much better off". But then again, some people actually think that way, and will be delighted when definitions of words change enough to redefine abortion as something that was once called murder or genocide. Maybe "Economically challenged class adjustment", or maybe even "The Elimination of Misery Act".

 

[rambot]

I stand by the fact that those who are allowed to be born have a chance at life, while those who are aborted have had that chance taken from them by someone else.

Prove to me that a fetus wants to be born and I'll be on the road towards convinced.

Something NOT along the lines of, "Oh, those poor people have it so rough. If only they had been aborted, they'd be so much better off".

But your argument seems to be "If your life is so bad, you totally have the opportunity to kill yourself after a lifetime of suffering. So you got THAT going for you at least."
And I'm not arguing they'd be better off. They wouldn't exist at all; so you can't be better off. Depending of course on what you think about the positioning and location of our souls relative to the Lord before we are born.

But then again, some people actually think that way, and will be delighted when definitions of words change enough to redefine abortion as something that was once called murder or genocide.

There's logic there, sure. MAybe in due time those communists will also start calling radiation treatment for cancer what it is...MURDER of CELLS!

 

[Aldebaran]

Prove to me that a fetus wants to be born and I'll be on the road towards convinced.

When life is threatened, it fights to survive when it has the chance. It's called "survival instinct" and is an inherent will to live. Even a "fetus" has been shown to do this when the abortion instruments are used. Eliminating life before it has a chance to fight to survive doesn't justify eliminating it.

But your argument seems to be "If your life is so bad, you totally have the opportunity to kill yourself after a lifetime of suffering. So you got THAT going for you at least."
And I'm not arguing they'd be better off. They wouldn't exist at all; so you can't be better off. Depending of course on what you think about the positioning and location of our souls relative to the Lord before we are born.

My positioning is that God has a purpose for each individual. In His Word, we can read of where we're not just a clump of cells, but a creation with a purpose.
"For You created my innermost parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to You, because I am awesomely and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well." Psalm 139:13-14

 

[Belk]

Outside the womb, off a ventilator, without medication, without food....

Many new standards can be invented to determine who deserves to live, and who needs to die. I guess we just have to hope we don't someday fall into one of the latest politically-motivated definition.

Or we could not move the goal posts and stick with the standards medical science currently holds.

 

[Aldebaran]

Or we could not move the goal posts and stick with the standards medical science currently holds.

Until science becomes political. Then, even after a baby is born, it can be justified that we should just wrap it up and keep it comfortable until the mother and doctor "have a conversation" about what to do with it next.

 

[Belk]

Until science becomes political. Then, even after a baby is born, it can be justified that we should just wrap it up and keep it comfortable until the mother and doctor "have a conversation" about what to do with it next.

What is your argument? We should ignore current medical science because it could become politicized in the future?

 

[Aldebaran]

What is your argument? We should ignore current medical science because it could become politicized in the future?

The attempt had already been made:
"“The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”
Virginia governor faces backlash over comments supporting late-term abortion bill | CNN Politics

 

[Belk]

The attempt had already been made:
"“The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”
Virginia governor faces backlash over comments supporting late-term abortion bill | CNN Politics

Yes, the rights attempt to politicize the issue over the past decades is well noted. I still fail to see that as a reason to interject in a medical decision.

 

[Aldebaran]

Yes, the rights attempt to politicize the issue over the past decades is well noted. I still fail to see that as a reason to interject in a medical decision.

Why change the subject to "the right"?
Ralph Northam is a democrat, which is Left.

 

[Belk]

Why change the subject to "the right"?
Ralph Northam is a democrat, which is Left.

Because they are the ones I have seen politicizing this. Feel free to explain how Ralph Northam has politicized the science and I will address it.

 

[rambot]

When life is threatened, it fights to survive when it has the chance. It's called "survival instinct" and is an inherent will to live. Even a "fetus" has been shown to do this when the abortion instruments are used. Eliminating life before it has a chance to fight to survive doesn't justify eliminating it.

what you are talking about is an attribute of life; responding to stimulae.
Past that you can't imply a consciousness.

.
My positioning is that God has a purpose for each individual. In His Word, we can read of where we're not just a clump of cells, but a creation with a purpose.
"For You created my innermost parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to You, because I am awesomely and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well." Psalm 139:13-14

I absolutely agree. And I believe even aborted fetuses are often part of God's plan for someone else, for better or worse.

 

[Aldebaran]

Because they are the ones I have seen politicizing this. Feel free to explain how Ralph Northam has politicized the science and I will address it.

Northam (democrat) is a politician who was pushing for what amounts to infanticide.
Northam politicized it. Those on the Right simply responded to what he said--as they should.

 

[Belk]

Northam (democrat) is a politician who was pushing for what amounts to infanticide.
Northam politicized it. Those on the Right simply responded to what he said--as they should.

Nuh uh. Explain how he politicized the science. That was your claim so how did he do so?

 

[Aldebaran]

what you are talking about is an attribute of life; responding to stimulae.
Past that you can't imply a consciousness.

At least you acknowledge that we're talking about a life. (Finally making progress here).

I absolutely agree. And I believe even aborted fetuses are often part of God's plan for someone else, for better or worse.

They can be, just like the millions of dead corpses left behind after being in gas chambers in Germany, or the beheaded bodies piling up in Afghanistan (which now includes children). One plan could be to show us how evil mankind can be in order to see if His people would stand up and oppose it--or if they would go in with the "science" crowd to make excuses for it.