SUFFERING

[Si_monfaith]

Personally I think not because salvation is undeserved.

Eternal reward is a matter of obedience to His will in this life.

On the intercession issue we partake in His sufferings on the cross for the person in need as Jesus did on the cross. That partnership between Him and His body completes the work of the cross in restoring the individual as we share in His sufferings. That is why intercessors weep sometimes with much grief.

Eternal reward is a matter of obedience to His will in this life.

Does God who gives salvation by grace alone in order to prevent the recipients from boasting (Ephesians 2:8,9-"not the result of works, so that no one may boast") give eternal rewards by works of obedience & allow boasting?

completes the work of the cross in restoring the individual as we

So Christ didn't complete the work on the cross to restore an individual?

intercessors weep sometimes

Weep for what reason? Weeping with joy over Christ's completed work of redemption, weeping over Christ's incomplete works on the cross, weeping over the intercessee's lack of blessing or weeping over the intercessee's lack of faith?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Does God who gives salvation by grace alone in order to prevent the recipients from boasting (Ephesians 2:8,9-"not the result of works, so that no one may boast") give eternal rewards by works of obedience & allow boasting?

There is no boasting in heaven.

So Christ didn't complete the work on the cross to restore an individual?

Yes He did but invites the body of Christ to participate in it as it realises in time.

Weep for what reason? Weeping with joy over Christ's completed work of redemption, weeping over Christ's incomplete works on the cross, weeping over the intercessee's lack of blessing or weeping over the intercessee's lack of faith?

Jesus wept.

When we join with His heart we weep also.

So much is His love for all of His family when they suffer.

If you have any further pressing questions please hand them upstairs, He is ready to answer.

 

[Si_monfaith]

There is no boasting in heaven.




Yes He did but invites the body of Christ to participate in it as it realises in time.



Jesus wept.

When we join with His heart we weep also.

So much is His love for all of His family when they suffer.

If you have any further pressing questions please hand them upstairs, He is ready to answer.

There is no boasting in heaven

If there is no boasting in heaven why doesn't God give salvation also by human works?

Yes He did but invites the body of Christ to participate in it as it realises in time.

If the Lord completed His works on the cross to restore an individual from suffering, why does He invite to participate in His sufferings? What kind of sufferings?

So much is His love for all of His family when they suffer.

If the Lord weeps now when His family suffers, why did He die, rise up & begin faith in His death & resurrection, which saves from suffering, in the first place?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Are you trying to please God by suffering pain?

I try to please myself by avoiding pain.

Does faith in Christ's death & resurrection alleviate pain?

Not the worldly pain most feel.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Deleted post.

 

[Si_monfaith]

I try to please myself by avoiding pain.



Not the worldly pain most feel.

I try to please myself by avoiding pain.

Is God pleased by our exercise of faith or is He pleased only with our suffering? Didn't Jesus suffer in order to free us from suffering?

Not the worldly pain most feel

What does Scripture say about faith in the matter of alleviating pain?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What does Scripture say about faith in the matter of alleviating pain?

Jesus invites us share his sufferings.

We are consoled by the promise of salvation.

 

[Carl Emerson]

If there is no boasting in heaven why doesn't God give salvation also by human works?

Because He didn't want boasting abut salvation on earth...

If the Lord completed His works on the cross to restore an individual from suffering, why does He invite to participate in His sufferings? What kind of sufferings?

I think I have covered that...

If the Lord weeps now when His family suffers, why did He die, rise up & begin faith in His death & resurrection, which saves from suffering, in the first place?

The cross is a timeless event - the impact of the cross is played out in chronological time.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Because He didn't want boasting abut salvation on earth...



I think I have covered that...



The cross is a timeless event - the impact of the cross is played out in chronological time.

Because He didn't want boasting abut salvation on earth...

Wasn't satan in heaven with God when he boasted?

I think I have covered that...

In which post#? Which sentence of yours answers the question, "If Christ's work completed the restoration of an individual from sufferings, why does He invite us to participate in sufferings & what kind of sufferings?"

The cross is a timeless event

Is the plan of the cross timeless (made in eternity before time was created) or the event of the cross happened in eternity & did not happen in time?

the impact of the cross is played out in chronological

Are you saying Jesus is weeping now because though He has made restoration from sufferings ready 2000 years back, people don't take it by faith?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Jesus invites us share his sufferings.

We are consoled by the promise of salvation.

Jesus invites us share his sufferings.

1) Why?

2) Is God pleased by our exercise of faith or is He pleased only with our suffering? Didn't Jesus suffer in order to free us from suffering?

3) Doesn't faith alleviate pain?

Are you evading questions?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Wasn't satan in heaven with God when he boasted?

In the created Heaven, not the eternal heaven.

In which post#? Which sentence of yours answers the question, "If Christ's work completed the restoration of an individual from sufferings, why does He invite us to participate in sufferings & what kind of sufferings?"

Let me answer that again...

Christs work is complete in eternity.
Clearly the sufferings of those believers who haven't lived yet are already experienced by Jesus on the timeless event of the cross. But as Paul says the Body of Christ will appropriate by His love, healing through participating in His sufferings for those suffering in time.
As to what kind of sufferings, I believe all that believers experience, but I dont think this is specified.

I said...
The cross is a timeless event
You asked...
Is the plan of the cross timeless (made in eternity before time was created)

Yes...

You asked...
The event of the cross happened in eternity & did not happen in time?

Happened in both...

Are you saying Jesus is weeping now because though He has made restoration from sufferings ready 2000 years back, people don't take it by faith?

No... at resurrection all believers are healed and freed from suffering.

In this life, believers are invited to share in the sufferings of Jesus for the healing of their brothers and sisters through what He did for them on the cross.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

1) Why?

2) Is God pleased by our exercise of faith or is He pleased only with our suffering? Didn't Jesus suffer in order to free us from suffering?

3) Doesn't faith alleviate pain?

Are you evading questions?

These aren't meaningful questions.

 

[Si_monfaith]

In the created Heaven, not the eternal heaven.



Let me answer that again...

Christs work is complete in eternity.
Clearly the sufferings of those believers who haven't lived yet are already experienced by Jesus on the timeless event of the cross. But as Paul says the Body of Christ will appropriate by His love, healing through participating in His sufferings for those suffering in time.
As to what kind of sufferings, I believe all that believers experience, but I dont think this is specified.

I said...
The cross is a timeless event
You asked...
Is the plan of the cross timeless (made in eternity before time was created)

Yes...

You asked...
The event of the cross happened in eternity & did not happen in time?

Happened in both...



No... at resurrection all believers are healed and freed from suffering.

In this life, believers are invited to share in the sufferings of Jesus for the healing of their brothers and sisters through what He did for them on the cross.

In the created Heaven, not the eternal heaven.

3 questions:
1) Does satan have a beginning or is he eternal having no beginning as God (in contrast, forever means no end)?
2) If satan is a creation & has a beginning how could he have been with God in eternity who has no beginning?
3) Does the above show satan dwelt in the same created heaven where humans will dwell & could boast?

Body of Christ will appropriate by His love, healing through participating in His sufferings

Does Paul talk about his own sufferings to proclaim the good news of Christ who restored healing to His people on the cross OR about his readers who need to earn that restored healing by suffering for it?

at resurrection all believers are healed and freed from suffering

Isn't faith in God's plan He made before He created Time by which He has healed through Christ's death & resurrection, a sign one is indeed healed? Apart from faith how could one have assurance he will be healed in Time?

 

[Si_monfaith]

These aren't meaningful questions.

Why?

 

[Carl Emerson]

3 questions:
1) Does satan have a beginning or is he eternal having no beginning as God (in contrast, forever means no end)?

Satan is a created being who never was in eternity with God.

2) If satan is a creation & has a beginning how could he have been with God in eternity who has no beginning?

He wasn't

3) Does the above show satan dwelt in the same created heaven where humans will dwell & could boast?

No, there will be a new created heavens and a new created earth and there will be no sin in eternity.

Does Paul talk about his own sufferings to proclaim the good news of Christ who restored healing to His people on the cross

Yes

OR about his readers who need to earn that restored healing by suffering for it?

No

Isn't faith in God's plan He made before He created Time by which He has healed through Christ's death & resurrection, a sign one is indeed healed?

Ultimately yes, but not all healing comes before death and resurrection.

Apart from faith how could one have assurance he will be healed in Time?

Faith comes from Hearing the word of Christ, If He has personally spoken to you that this will happen then hold onto that.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Carl Emerson,
Hope you reply in the appropriate quote zones because I am unable to reference your quotes.

You posted: No, there will be a new created heavens and a new created earth and there will be no sin in eternity.
Questions:
1) Did God create the old heaven which you say satan dwelt, & is different from what humans will dwell, and the old earth, with sin?
2) If humans necessarily sin in earth like boasting about their works, why did God prevent Abimelech from sinning (Genesis 20:6-"it was I who kept you from sinning against me")?
3) Can those who have eternal life now & do live in earth now, commit the sin of boasting? If not, why does God not give salvation to them based on their works?
4) Why does God give salvation based on Son's works & eternal rewards based on human works if those who will receive salvation cannot boast in heaven?

You posted: Ultimately yes, but not all healing comes before death and resurrection.
Question:
So how was naaman the leper healed, for instance?

You posted: Faith comes from Hearing the word of Christ, If He has personally spoken to you that this will happen then hold onto that.
Question:
Do you mean to say we are not eligible to claim God's promises in the Bible based on Christ's death & resurrection? Isn't Bible a personally spoken word of God or the Bible promises irrelevant?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Inadvertent repetition:

You posted: No, there will be a new created heavens and a new created earth and there will be no sin in eternity.
Questions:
1) Did God create the old heaven which you say satan dwelt, & is different from what humans will dwell, and the old earth, with sin?
2) If humans necessarily sin in earth like boasting about their works, why did God prevent Abimelech from sinning (Genesis 20:6-"it was I who kept you from sinning against me")?
3) Can those who have eternal life now & do live in earth now, commit the sin of boasting? If not, why does God not give salvation to them based on their works?
4) Why does God give salvation based on Son's works & eternal rewards based on human works if those who will receive salvation cannot boast in heaven?

You posted: Ultimately yes, but not all healing comes before death and resurrection.
Question:
So how was naaman the leper healed, for instance?

You posted: Faith comes from Hearing the word of Christ, If He has personally spoken to you that this will happen then hold onto that.
Question:
Do you mean to say we are not eligible to claim God's promises in the Bible based on Christ's death & resurrection? Isn't Bible a personally spoken word of God or the Bible promises irrelevant?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Carl Emerson,
Hope you reply in the appropriate quote zones because I am unable to reference your quotes.

You posted: No, there will be a new created heavens and a new created earth and there will be no sin in eternity.
Questions:
1) Did God create the old heaven which you say satan dwelt, & is different from what humans will dwell, and the old earth, with sin?
2) If humans necessarily sin in earth like boasting about their works, why did God prevent Abimelech from sinning (Genesis 20:6-"it was I who kept you from sinning against me")?
3) Can those who have eternal life now & do live in earth now, commit the sin of boasting? If not, why does God not give salvation to them based on their works?
4) Why does God give salvation based on Son's works & eternal rewards based on human works if those who will receive salvation cannot boast in heaven?

You posted: Ultimately yes, but not all healing comes before death and resurrection.
Question:
So how was naaman the leper healed, for instance?

You posted: Faith comes from Hearing the word of Christ, If He has personally spoken to you that this will happen then hold onto that.
Question:
Do you mean to say we are not eligible to claim God's promises in the Bible based on Christ's death & resurrection? Isn't Bible a personally spoken word of God or the Bible promises irrelevant?

Question 1. Can't understand the question.

Question 2. Ask God.

Question 3. Yes.

Question 4. Why would He not?

Question 5. (Naaman) God can heal who He chooses at any time He pleases.

Question 6. (Faith comes from hearing)
This is a good question - The Scripture alone without the Spirit speaking cannot birth faith. Once you have heard and have faith, you need to hold onto it and not slip into inbelief.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Why?

Not the sort of mind bending subject most are concerned with.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Question 1. Can't understand the question.

Question 2. Ask God.

Question 3. Yes.

Question 4. Why would He not?

Question 5. (Naaman) God can heal who He chooses at any time He pleases.

Question 6. (Faith comes from hearing)
This is a good question - The Scripture alone without the Spirit speaking cannot birth faith. Once you have heard and have faith, you need to hold onto it and not slip into inbelief.

Question 1. Can't understand the question.

The question is, did God create the heaven which satan dwelt earlier, with sin?

Question 2. Ask God

In view of Genesis 20:6, do you now understand that none necessarily sins in earth apart from God's eternal plan & purpose & so your apparent claim of "there is boasting on earth necessarily & so God doesn't give salvation based on human works" is false?

Question 4. Why would He not?

Hebrews 11:9,10 says Abraham believed God for the eternal reward in heaven. It was not given to him based on his works. In light of this, you agree your claim of "eternal rewards based on human works" is false?

Question 5. (Naaman) God can heal who He chooses at any time He pleases.

If God chose to create everything through & for His Son & thus glorified Himself only through His Son, why would He have healed naamam not based on His Son's works who was slain from the foundation of the world (Revelations 13:8)?

Once you have heard and have faith, you need to hold onto it and not slip into inbelief

Does Jesus who begin faith preserve it as well (Luke 22:32)?