• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured Sudden destruction following "peace and saftey"

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by friend of, May 12, 2018.

  1. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

    United States
    United Methodist
  3. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Well-Known Member

    It's on June 12. That's forever. We still have the 70th year anniversary and some Pentecost dates. I just go from one day to the next. But i think you're close. I think the sudden destruction is what comes next. So i'm on the lookout for peace and safety like in the days of Lot.

    "Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
    And they did not escape.
  4. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    No. Once again, you are looking for "peace" as the world defined it. Not what God defined it.

    Peace and safety are about being secure in Christ. That's the job of the Spirit and the Word. Again, this has nothing to do with the subject at hand! Today, there are lot of professed Christians "feel" secure in Christ, and feel at peace with God, and most of them have no security at all and no more peace than Judas had being among the twelve! Again I say, that is the nature of deception. Even as it is written..

    1st Thessalonians 5:3-5
    • "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
    • But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
    • Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness."
    It is not about world peace. It is about testifying to scripture that Christians may know security and recognize that obedience is the only way they'll ever be secure. Listen to the testimony of Christ concerning this:

    1st John 2:3-5
    • "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    • He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    • But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: Hereby know we that we are in him."
    That's how we know we are secure and have true peace and safety. It doesn't matter if some popular Pastor like Joel Osteen makes you "feel" secure. If I am not obedient to God's Word, them I am only kidding myself. Or as God so righteously puts it, I'm Lying to myself! I'm a Liar! The church today are falling away (apostasy) with deceptions coming out of the mouths of false prophets and christs where people of the congregation are saying "peace and safety" but sudden dustruction from God comes upon them so that they will believe a lie. It is because they do not love the Truth.

    Stop watching world news and get with God's Word concerning "peace and safety".
  5. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

    In Relationship
    Makes no sense ,that scripture verse refers to destruction that comes upon the nation , ....

    yeah right as soon as people say they feel secure in Christ -sudden destruction comes upon them - quite absurd - just more foolishness

  6. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

    Keeping the verse in context of the message Paul is saying

    1 Thessalonians 5:1 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you,
    1 Thessalonians 5:2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.
    1 Thessalonians 5:3 While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
    1 Thessalonians 5:4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

    As most of the world is going about its merry way and people are doing as they normally do ,the day of the Lord will come upon them,suddenly and catch them,unaware.

    As the days of Noah.

    Matthew 24:37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
    Matthew 24:38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;
    Matthew 24:39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

    They were living their everyday life as it were and the flood came suddenly and destroyed them.

    Paul is saying that day should not come upon us unaware.We should be alert and aware of whats taking place .

    1 Thessalonians 5:6 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober.
  7. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

    As Shilohfoal already pointed out, the context for this is the 'day of the Lord' which starts at the 6th Seal or 1st Trumpet (Trumpets 1-4 occur Feb 4, 2021) The 'day of the Lord' cuts short the great tribulation for the elect's sake, which is part of this 'sudden destruction'.

    The reason that they are saying 'peace & safety':

    70 years of Jerusalem desolations (April 19/ 20, 2018 70 Hebrew calendar years) (Daniel 9:2)

    then go forward 7 weeks (June 8, 2018) (1st Seal/ white horseman) (Daniel 9:25 arrival of a prince/ ruler)

    then go forward 62 weeks (Aug 16, 2019) to when the 7th head of Satan is anointed (4th Seal, Death & Hades given dominion over 1/4th the earth.) (Daniel 9:25)

    then go forward another 62 weeks (Oct 23, 2020) which is probably this heads mortal head wound? (Daniel 9:26)

    8 weeks to finish out 70 weeks to complete the transgression (Daniel 9:24 & Daniel 9:26) (Dec 18, 2020)

    Now we get to Daniel 9:27. At Dec, 18, 2020, then the (7 day, not 7 years) covenant is made and broken 3.5 days later.

    This is the covenant that makes people think that they have 'peace & safety'. The 'sudden destruction' is the 'great tribulation' - the great tribulation being caused by 'breaking the covenant in the middle of a literal week'. That's why it's 'sudden': it is not 3.5 years, it is 3.5 days!

    to answer your initial question: since the Trump summit is on June 12, 2018, it is related to the white horseman/ 1st Seal.
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    No, it is not. The peace and safety in 1Thessalonian5 will be because the Jews and the world will think they have entered the messianic age. Which that false messianic age will follow Gog/Magog. So we are not there yet.
  9. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

    Yes, they think that they have the 'covenant of peace'

    Isaiah 54
    “Fear not, for you will not be ashamed;
    be not confounded, for you will not be disgraced;
    for you will forget the shame of your youth,
    and the reproach of your widowhood you will remember no more.
    5 For your Maker is your husband,
    the Lord of hosts is his name;
    and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer,
    the God of the whole earth he is called.
    6 For the Lord has called you
    like a wife deserted and grieved in spirit,
    like a wife of youth when she is cast off,
    says your God.
    7 For a brief moment I deserted you,
    but with great compassion I will gather you.

    8 In overflowing anger for a moment
    I hid my face from you,
    but with everlasting love I will have compassion on you,”
    says the Lord, your Redeemer.

    9 “This is like the days of Noah to me:
    as I swore that the waters of Noah
    should no more go over the earth,

    [compare with Matthew 24:15-41 with the abomination & days of Noah]

    so I have sworn that I will not be angry with you,
    and will not rebuke you.
    10 For the mountains may depart
    and the hills be removed,
    but my steadfast love shall not depart from you,
    and my covenant of peace shall not be removed,
    says the Lord, who has compassion on you.

    11 “O afflicted one, storm-tossed and not comforted,
    behold, I will set your stones in antimony,
    and lay your foundations with sapphires.
    12 I will make your pinnacles of agate,
    your gates of carbuncles,
    and all your wall of precious stones.

    [Ezekiel's millenial temple]
    13 All your children shall be taught by the Lord,
    and great shall be the peace of your children.
    But why is it 'sudden destruction' if this covenant is broken after 3.5 years?
  10. Bobber

    Bobber Well-Known Member

    I hardly think anyone could know exactly what time of 'Peace' God is referring to. I'd say the only reason he made mention of it is to let us know for all generations not be moved by what you see in the natural realm that all things look hunky dory. Such a mental state can leave one choosing to become spiritually asleep. We're to be sober and watchful at all times.
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    Sudden destruction come up on them because the person "transgresses" the covenant by claiming to be God... and expects everyone to worship him. That act triggers the Day of the Lord.

    Shortly, thereafter, the person is killed, brought back to life as the beast, and the image made of him. The abomination of desolation. That image placed in the temple triggers the Great Tribulation.
  12. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

    By your reckoning, the 'antichrist' makes a 7 year 'peace' covenant (causing people to say..... 'peace & safety'). Then the false prophet makes an image 3.5 years later. This image triggers the 'great tribulation'.

    Again, what is 'sudden' about this? Nothing

    Here is the more likely scenario: the 7th head of Satan is anointed at the 69th week marker. 70 weeks later finishes the transgression. the 7th head is gone. Then the 8th head makes a 7 day covenant - which causes people to say 'peace & safety'. 1 week until Christmas. The 8th head/ the 'prince to come' breaks the covenant with a living image 3.5 days later. That is 'peace & safety' then 'sudden destruction'.

    People say 'Peace' (because of the covenant)

    the sudden destruction in the middle of the '7' (week) is the great tribulation
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    No, it is not a "peace" covenant. The confirming of the covenant for 7 years is a requirement Moses made back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 of the Mt Sinai Covenant of all future leaders for years - on a 7 year cycle, a speech made to nation of Israel.

    That God gave the children of Israel the land of Israel as theirs forever. Moses also stated the speech has to be from the place of God's choosing and on the feast of Tabernacles.

    The Jews I have talked to say the place of God's choosing, they consider to be the temple mount.

    It is NOT a PEACE TREATY. It is the Mt. Sinai Covenant and the requirement is already in the bible. All it is going to take is for the Jews to embrace someone as their messiah and him anointed the King of Israel. He will make the speech.

    Which a false messianic age begins, and the Jews and the world will be saying peace and safety.

    Then the sudden destruction comes -

    Until about 3 years 3-4 months into said (Antichrist) messiah's reign, when he goes bad. He betrays Israel and transgresses the covenant by going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God. Which triggers the Day of the Lord. Which will be totally unexpected (by the unsaved). Like a thief in the night.

    The great tribulation is shorty (we don't know how much time later) there after, when the image is made of the person and placed in the temple.

    Two different things - but closely related. The Day of the Lord beginning, followed shortly by the great tribulation beginning.
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  14. R. Hartono

    R. Hartono Well-Known Member

  15. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    Why? Are you looking for the fulfillment of "sudden destruction?" Please. Don't worry about national Israel, Russia, Trump, Kim, Kaui, California, etc. These are not what God wanted us to look for. To find out exactly what God means by "peace" and "sudden destruction," research for HIS DEFINITION and HIS INTERPRETATION that only can be found in Scripture if you have spiritual ears to hear. Not CNN News or Jersualem Post.
  16. R. Hartono

    R. Hartono Well-Known Member

    Due to joint exercise by US n SK, rejected by Nk
  17. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    So? Read what I said again.
  18. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    But that is not what 1Thessalonians5 is talking about. It is them who are in darkness will be saying peace and safety. Which sudden destruction comes upon them when that illusion is shattered - by a certain event that triggers the Day of the Lord.

    1Thessalonians5 is talking about the unexpected beginning of the Day of the Lord on them who are unsaved, but think they are in a peace and safety situation.... of a false messianic age with the onset of the Antichrist.

    TribulationSigns, actually I think you are in the wrong forum. You would do better in a theology oriented forum, that is not eschatology based.
  19. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    Incorrect! This has NOTHING to do with world peace or peace as the world defines it. Not at all. Please read the whole context:

    1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
    [1] But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
    [2] For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
    [3] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
    [4] But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
    [5] Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
    [6] Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
    [7] For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
    [8] But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
    [9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
    [10] Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
    [11] Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

    That word translated travail (odin) is the exact same Greek word that is translated "sorrows" in Matthew 24. This is the beginnings of travail or sorrows, becasue it is a struggle or tribulation in the church, when false prophets abound and professed Christians foolishly think they have peace with God and are safe. But they are not safe behind church walls, they are indeed under wrath of God for their rebellion and abominations. As Christ coming to them "as a thief" in the night, they shall be broken when they least expect it!

    But those who truly know the Lord are not in darkness that this day shall overtake them as a thief. Please note carefully that verse 6 says, "Therefore let us not sleep as do others; but let us watch and be sober." This is just as Christ warned the church in this very same Matthew 24 when speaking about this coming Great tribulation and great apostasy--to Watch!

    Matthew 24:43
    • "But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up."
    The house is the church! And if we do not watch, but sleep without the Spirit to keep our lamps burning, we will find that our house has been broken into by the thief, as judgment "DIRECTLY" from God.

    And as in the parable of the 10 virgins, when the call is made to those sleep, that the bridegroom cometh, the foolish virgins (professed christians) will be found without sufficient oil (Spirit) to light the way to the wedding.

    Tell me, who says "Peace and safety?" Who is it that "THINKS" they are at peace with God, and that THINKS they are safe from within the House of God, but will have travail as a woman with child? On the other hand, the children of the light WATCH, and therefore they see, and they KNOW when to flee from the aposate church. When the apostasy has brought a house to desolation - the abomination of desolation. How do they "know?" They WATCH! Not watching for a literal war that will end to world peace! No, The children of light are married to Christ, and not to a church. They serve Christ,
    and not the Church. They serve Him as ruler, not the false prophets and Christs sitting in the Holy Temple (church). They know when they see the judgment taking place in the House of God. They interpret Scripture by Scripture, not by current events, historians or Preachers like YOU do!

    The professed Christians are the children of darkness while the True Elects are the Children of Light within the congregation. Just like the Wise Virgins and Foolish Virgins. This has NOTHING to do with world peace or anything like that. The context has to do with the spiritual condition of God's Church where some people cannot tell if they are under judgment while the True Christians can see and flee from her, Revelation 18.

    Nope. I have been in the Eschatology forum ever since I joined here. While I can deal with theology issues, but I do belong to this forum where I can see your eschatology interpretation to be inaccurate! Sorry!
  20. Inkfingers

    Inkfingers Somebody's heretic Supporter

    United Kingdom