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That is not my understanding of biblical headship, what you have stated is not even biblical.
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That is not my understanding of biblical headship, what you have stated is not even biblical.Biblical headship - as I understand it from the folks who insist on it - means "the man (husband/father) controls the household." His job is to make decisions and give instructions, and their job is to do as he says.
That's not the same as healthy leadership.
I actually agree with you for the most part.You know, there's a man at our church who likes to tease women by quoting the same verse you just quoted, and then saying that "the reason humanity is in trouble is because a man listened to a woman," and I don't think it's very funny.
That is not my understanding of biblical headship, what you have stated is not even biblical.
I think it is wrong to blame that on the Bible.Yes, I know. That's why I reject "headship." It takes one word ("head") and completely twists it into a doctrine of control.
I think it is wrong to blame that on the Bible.
I’m pretty sure I’ve though about that more than most people. And I grew up studying the Bible and theology, I know what’s in it, no need to post verses for me.Have you considered who is at the top of your hated patriarchy?
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
Saint Steven said: ↑
The Apostle told us to love our wives and even to submit to them. Was that part of the so-called "patriarchy"?
Goodness no. Most women in my circle are feminists and none of us hate men. My favorite person in the world is a man, and one of my mentors is a man. I’ve been fortunate to have had a lot of “good” men In my life who respect me and treat me as an equal. As a female leader, I also encounter a lot of subtle sexism from men who aren’t comfortable with women in positions in power. Talking about sexism and misogyny in the world doesn’t mean I hate men.I would agree with that. But don't you have any concerns about what Feminism has become? (a man-hating machine)
Saint Steven said: ↑
Since you like to be a fruit inspector, what is your assessment of Feminism? Good fruit, or bad fruit?
Garbage. The ultimate expression of submission is Lord Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane. It's just as well that the Lord Jesus knew what real submission is, or we'd all be in hell.Of course it is. That is the absolute core of it, and why it is such a problem.
Garbage. The ultimate expression of submission is Lord Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane. It's just as well that the Lord Jesus knew what real submission is, or we'd all be in hell.
Why should submission and obedience be controversial? The answer is simple. Man's very nature rebels at the thought of being in submission and in obedience. The fall of man came about because of Adam's disobedience and man has been in revolt against God's authority ever since.
Many people object to the principle of men being head of the household. It's not just women who object, many men also think it wrong. Yet it is plainly God's order. Joyce Meyer has to be one of the most successful Christian women on the planet. She teaches women to submit to their husbands. God has honoured her in that.
Submission is not domination. Husbands are commanded to love their wives as Christ loved the church. Preaching a sermon on love then beating up your wife (verbally or physically) is hypocrisy of the highest order. Lord Jesus said that the way we treat believers is the way we are treating Him.
Submission is a safety net. If the husband messes up, God holds him responsible, not the wife. If you want the perfect example of submission and obedience, you know where to look. He is now King of Kings and Lord of Lords, highly exalted with the name above all names.
God requires submission and obedience for very good reasons. One reason is quite simple. It goes against the self-centred egotistical nature that we inherit from Adam.
If we want to make real progress in the Christian life, we should be seeking grace to know God's will, to do God's will and in a manner that is submissive, not sullen and resentful. To obey is indeed better than sacrifice.
Yes. I knew I was tossing a verbal hand grenade into the forum. Thanks for the encouragement.Generally, Christians in the decadent world know nothing of endurance in surrender as it relates to Christ and the way He explicitly taught it. The Bible says we are called to innocent suffering (1 Peter 2:20-24), emptying ourselves (Philippians 2:5-8), even resisting sin unto bloodshed (Hebrews 12:2-4). Good luck getting most to carry a cross made of anything but cotton.
This kind of thing is not new or progressive but makes its cycle throughout history, as it must, until Christ returns. It will only return to God's wisdom of patriarchal rule when society collapses or Christ returns as the Patriarch of that society:
"As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." (Isaiah 3:12)
I think it is wrong to blame that on the Bible.
That isn't my objection.On another thread a member is admonishing others for failing to remain in abusive relationships and enduring the suffering as mandated by God.
There are unhealthy people who are incapable of directing others without causing harm. Acknowledging its existence isn’t wrong.
~Bella
On page one of this topic, your first post on this topic, you made an unwarranted attack on Joyce Meyer. Assuming the worst about her. As if to claim that a relationship based on biblical headship was not even possible.There are unhealthy people who are incapable of directing others without causing harm. Acknowledging its existence isn’t wrong.
Yes. I knew I was tossing a verbal hand grenade into the forum. Thanks for the encouragement.
My objection is tossing out the Bible in favor of current socio-political views. As if the Bible needs to conform to our culture.
On page one of this topic, your first post on this topic, you made an unwarranted attack on Joyce Meyer. Assuming the worst about her. As if to claim that a relationship based on biblical headship was not even possible.
Yes, but your comment seemed to invalidate her testimony. You brushed aside the whole notion of headship, claiming no one knows what goes on behind closed doors.I didn’t attack her. I like her and read her books. But I don’t know her personally. There’s an old adage which says the same. We don’t know how anyone behaves behind closed doors. That’s why the “Sunday Christian” comment is popular.
~Bella
And in context of the below, you can understand why she might need reassurance that God wouldn’t let her be punished for the failure of another?
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