Subjective Christianity

[GallagherM]

There is obviously one objective truth about Christianity and that is God sent His Son Jesus Christ to come and save the world from its sin. Which He did do 2000 years ago on the cross, dying a death that He did not deserve in any way for any reason. Being sinless He paid for all of mankind’s sin; past; present and future. Being buried and placed into the tomb; for three days (He went to Hell/Sheol/Hades for three days and even went to preach to the spirits that were reserved back in Noah’s day in the prison part of Sheol) then was resurrected again by God on the third day. Then God through Jesus Christ sent the Holy Spirit to dwell in the apostles and all who would believe from then on in the book of acts.

Then there comes the subjectivity.

What will we do with our lives, and what do we assume of the others books like revelation for example; how do we interpret and how do we form our theology, and what we will do with our lives with living in faith which justifies us with God our Father, through the Lord Jesus Christ, that we may have peace with God.

Have you ever thought about any of these things before?

If you have what do you think are the benefits of subjective Christianity?

What would you consider if someone said hey; it’s between you and God alone and no one else what you do with your life, you can either seek Him or not seek him; the choice is yours?

What are your thoughts about going to the Bible alone?

What do you think about God governing over your life by and through the spirit that is given that lives with in the believers of faith?

What do think about these things out of pure generally curious curiosity?

 

[Sidon]

If you have what do you think are the benefits of subjective Christianity?

One way to think of the reality of Eternal Salvation , which is The Blood of God offered as : John 3:16, is to consider that "coming to the knowledge of the Truth" exists as a 2 part process.

The 1st part, is....>"faith comes by hearing", and "all that believe on Jesus shall be saved".
So, a person who did that, is not doing it based on Theology. They are doing it because Christ said..
"If i be lifted up..(the Cross) i will draw ALL MEN to me"..
And noticed Jesus didn't say...."only the predestined".
So, out goes Calvin, and in comes The Grace of God.
God's Grace.
Its your eternal life, In Christ.

So, once we are become born again, now we start that subjected process of learning how to understand it, perfectly, or as Paul teaches...>"As many as be perfect", "having the same mind"..
Thats part 11.
See that "same mind"?
That is faith perfected as true understanding of the Blood Atonement as the "doctrine of Christ" that Paul teaches.
Found here, Romans 3:21-28, and in other places in the NT.

So, as a believer is growing in Grace, being transformed from "glory to glory".... they are learning how to understand the TRUTH that is "Christ in them".... whom they received when they first believed that they needed to be saved, and had faith in this....John 14:6.
"The preaching of THE Cross".

All the born again are in transit, in process, regarding learning how to exist in the Kingdom of God by REAL FAITH, perfectly.
That is the process of leaving behind the carnal or "natural min that receives not the things of God, and can't know them""""", and is to be put away by learning to live in the renewed mind that is to walk in the Spirit.
This is "working out your salvation", that you have alrady, as proven by being born again, but have to understand perfectly, that becomes the "same mind" and the "as many as be perfect".

See, being "as many as are perfect", isnt about trying to be a clone of Jesus.
Its about having perfected faith regarding understanding who you have become as a new Creation, in Christ.
When you exits in this faith, then Christ lives out His Life through you.
Paul teaches this as...>it is no longer i who live, but Christ who lives in me.

This .....""I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.""""

When we find people on a forum or in a pulpit, who claim to be born again, yet they are teaching self effort/commandment keeping... in place of God's Grace, then we see that they are contradicting the Cross, which means they are blinded by the Devil, or they are actually not born again.

 

[timothyu]

Being sinless He paid for all of mankind’s sin; past; present and future.

If you mean He opened the door to another option for mankind, the Kingdom functioning in God's image, not man's, then yes.

and even went to preach to the spirits that were reserved back in Noah’s day in the prison part of Sheol)

Yes, the ignored book of Enoch gives good insight to the previous world of man and who those prisoners are.

Then God through Jesus Christ sent the Holy Spirit to dwell in the apostles and all who would believe from then on in the book of acts.

Yes, Jesus said He would send a comforter/helper, a spirit of truth about what He taught in his (now neglected) Gospel of the Kingdom, to help keep those of the Kingdom and not the world of man, on the path of the Kingdom and hopefully from having His sown seeds fall to the wayside as the world regains control of the minds of the believers.

and what do we assume of the others books like revelation for example;

Revelation is a guide in how to be in the world but not of it as we live the ways of the Kingdom in the enemy world that man has made in our own image.

What would you consider if someone said hey; it’s between you and God alone and no one else what you do with your life, you can either seek Him or not seek him; the choice is yours?

The choice is indeed ours whether to repent of the self serving ways of mankind and act in the ways of the Kingdom, or remain loyal to the world man has made in our (not God's) image and will.

What do you think about God governing over your life by and through the spirit that is given that lives with in the believers of faith?

Being of the Kingdom rather than this world we naturally wish to follow the will of God and not the default self serving will of man. We allow God to work through us rather than block entry by pursuing our own will. As the Lord's Prayer says (which all speak but rarely listen to except for the parts that serve me me me), ' Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven ', His will, not the will of self or fellow man (take note political Christians).

 

[eleos1954]

There is obviously one objective truth about Christianity and that is God sent His Son Jesus Christ to come and save the world from its sin. Which He did do 2000 years ago on the cross, dying a death that He did not deserve in any way for any reason. Being sinless He paid for all of mankind’s sin; past; present and future. Being buried and placed into the tomb; for three days (He went to Hell/Sheol/Hades for three days and even went to preach to the spirits that were reserved back in Noah’s day in the prison part of Sheol) then was resurrected again by God on the third day. Then God through Jesus Christ sent the Holy Spirit to dwell in the apostles and all who would believe from then on in the book of acts.

Then there comes the subjectivity.

What will we do with our lives, and what do we assume of the others books like revelation for example; how do we interpret and how do we form our theology, and what we will do with our lives with living in faith which justifies us with God our Father, through the Lord Jesus Christ, that we may have peace with God.

Have you ever thought about any of these things before?

If you have what do you think are the benefits of subjective Christianity?

What would you consider if someone said hey; it’s between you and God alone and no one else what you do with your life, you can either seek Him or not seek him; the choice is yours?

What are your thoughts about going to the Bible alone?

What do you think about God governing over your life by and through the spirit that is given that lives with in the believers of faith?

What do think about these things out of pure generally curious curiosity?

It is Christ alone. The bible is a continuous story and was given to us for insight about humanity in general about ourselves and reveals the true character of God. God is love.

John 5:39
New International Version
You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,

It's all about Jesus .... what He has done .... and what He is doing.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

There is obviously one objective truth about Christianity and that is God sent His Son Jesus Christ to come and save the world from its sin. Which He did do 2000 years ago on the cross, dying a death that He did not deserve in any way for any reason. Being sinless He paid for all of mankind’s sin

I've actually heard that not all christians see it like that.

They interpret the scriptures differently.

 

[GallagherM]

@Confused-by-christianity what do you mean by not all Christians see it like that, and they interpret them differently?

 

[GallagherM]

@eleos1954 I agree.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

@Confused-by-christianity what do you mean by not all Christians see it like that, and they interpret them differently?

Not all christians believe Jesus came to be a sacrifice for our sins.

 

[GallagherM]

@timothyu thank you for your response. I never read the book of Enoch.

 

[GallagherM]

@Sidon I like how you mention growing in grace; glory to glory when walking as Christian.

 

[GallagherM]

@Confused-by-christianity what are some other interpretations you may have heard then?

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

@Confused-by-christianity what are some other interpretations you may have heard then?

There is a book called:
Problems With Atonement: The Origins of, and Controversy about, the Atonement Doctrine written by Stephen Finlan PhD.

You can read the blurb on Amazon. It says:
The origins of atonement are found in Paul's writings. Popular Christian theology has understood them to mean that God demanded a bloody victim to pay for human sin. In Problems with Atonement Stephen Finlan examines the Christian doctrine of atonement and current debates about it. He considers its biblical foundation in Pauline texts, the Old Testament background, and the theological questions under discussion about atonement. He provides ancient historical background and raises questions, such as whether the Incarnation must be understood through the lens of atonement.

Chapters are Chapter 1: Sacrifice and Scapegoat," "Chapter 2: Paul's Use of Cultic Imagery," "Chapter 3: Atonement after Paul," "Chapter 4: Rationalizing the Atonement Doctrine," and "Chapter 5: The Incarnation."

Stephen Finlan, PhD, is an adjunct professor of New Testament at Seton Hall University and Fordham University. He is the author of The Background and Content of Paul's Cultic Atonement Metaphors (Society of Biblical Culture, 2004).

Anyway - my point is - Christians all over the place seem to believe all sorts of different stuff.
We could both read in good faith - but still have different interpretations of the same verses.

 

[BNR32FAN]

There is obviously one objective truth about Christianity and that is God sent His Son Jesus Christ to come and save the world from its sin. Which He did do 2000 years ago on the cross, dying a death that He did not deserve in any way for any reason. Being sinless He paid for all of mankind’s sin; past; present and future. Being buried and placed into the tomb; for three days (He went to Hell/Sheol/Hades for three days and even went to preach to the spirits that were reserved back in Noah’s day in the prison part of Sheol) then was resurrected again by God on the third day. Then God through Jesus Christ sent the Holy Spirit to dwell in the apostles and all who would believe from then on in the book of acts.

Then there comes the subjectivity.

What will we do with our lives, and what do we assume of the others books like revelation for example; how do we interpret and how do we form our theology, and what we will do with our lives with living in faith which justifies us with God our Father, through the Lord Jesus Christ, that we may have peace with God.

Have you ever thought about any of these things before?

If you have what do you think are the benefits of subjective Christianity?

What would you consider if someone said hey; it’s between you and God alone and no one else what you do with your life, you can either seek Him or not seek him; the choice is yours?

What are your thoughts about going to the Bible alone?

What do you think about God governing over your life by and through the spirit that is given that lives with in the believers of faith?

What do think about these things out of pure generally curious curiosity?

Personally when it comes to questions about interpretation I think it’s a really good idea to examine the earliest church writings from the first & second century. These writings can help us a great deal in determining how the apostles intended the scriptures to be interpreted because they are first hand students of the apostles themselves. These men heard the apostles preach for years and they were able to ask them questions which means they received a lot more information than we do from reading the scriptures.

 

[Tone]

Then God through Jesus Christ sent the Holy Spirit to dwell in the apostles and all who would believe from then on in the book of acts.

I believe it's very important to keep in mind/heart Who He Is.

What will we do with our lives, and what do we assume of the others books like revelation for example; how do we interpret and how do we form our theology, and what we will do with our lives with living in faith which justifies us with God our Father, through the Lord Jesus Christ, that we may have peace with God.

This sounds like Torah.

And this is fitting as He Is Torah Incarnate...the fullness of Torah, fleshed out, that we may enter in through the Narrow Door.

Have you ever thought about any of these things before?

Yes, which is why I've pretty much traveled the whole spectrum of Christianity to the Messianic American I am today.

 

[timothyu]

The bible is a continuous story and was given to us for insight about humanity in general about ourselves and reveals the true character of God. God is love.

Yes, and it also reveals the true character of self serving man

 

[eleos1954]

Yes, and it also reveals the true character of self serving man

Yep ... that would be us most of the time ;o)

 

[timothyu]

Now if we would only repent of that and do unto all the same service that we seek for ourselves. But the world of man (and institutionalized Christianity) does not take kindly to that counter-culture presented by the Gospel of the Kingdom. They are especially quick to give it political labels designed to make it appear it is offensive to share rather than profit.

 

[EmethAlethia]

What are your thoughts about going to the Bible alone?

Ultimately we all go to the bible alone. Either we go to justify what we want to believe "as" truth or we go to get truth. Everyone gets what they want:

2Th 2:10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. 13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

And that explains all the belief groups in the world. The Atheists get what they want (Rom. 1:18-32), the religious but not Christian lost can "justify" what they believe and reject (Rom. 10:1-3) and the people who believe Jesus is their Lord, God and Savior who are doing signs, wonders, casting out demons, prophesying in His name who are lost get what they want.

Every person who goes to find proof that their beliefs are truth, and all opposing beliefs are lies from hell can justify, what they wish to believe and what they wish to reject and KNOW they have the truth. Truth is a VERY personal thing. but then ...

If you study how every belief group from the Atheists and Agnostics, to the Jews, Moslems, Roman Catholics, Baptists, Jehovah's Witnesses ... pick your group ... "Justify" what they believe and reject, you will see a pattern.

They …

1.) Gather whatever they can “use” to prove what they “want to believe” to be truth.

2.) Accumulate all evidence they believe proves all opposing views incorrect.

3.) Assume their beliefs are unquestionable truth, and interpret everything in such a way as to make it all support, or at least not negate, their beliefs. Think about it. If your beliefs are unquestionable truths, all “valid” data, must support … or at least not negate, your infallible beliefs, right?

4.) Reinterpret, ignore, discredit, invalidate … anything that doesn’t seem to fit with their views, Why? Our beliefs are “Fact” Valid data interpreted correctly can’t contradict the facts.

5.) Gather all the other experiences, feelings, data … to solidify their beliefs such as signs, wonders, spiritual gifts or facts about your belief group. Things like: we have a burning in the bosom, we speak in tongues, we perform signs or wonders, a statue of Mary came to life and told us our belief groups views are correct, we have prayed to God for the truth and received “feelings” or even signs from heaven. Or, on a more concrete level: Our belief group is the oldest, largest, fastest growing, wealthiest, has the most experts with doctorates… Include anything that adds assurance that your views and belief group have the most truth.

But these are the things we do "if" we just want to believe what we want to believe, and have reasons for discarding the rest. This process closes our eyes, ears and hearts to even considering anything else. And this process allows all the people from every belief group that believes themselves Christian to believe the gospel is simple, while each of them believes completely different “simple” gospels. Everyone gets what they want. And every belief group knows they love the truth and have the truth using this Methodology.

You can do this with your "chosen facts" and be an Atheist, Moslem, Baptist, Mormon ... anything you want and KNOW you and your group have the truth, and close your eyes and ears to anything else and die with your beliefs intact. Or you can do the exact opposite ... but that takes habitual work to cut straight every last passage that might apply to every single topic at hand, for yourself and by yourself ... Or ... just pick the beliefs you want, find a belief group that holds to those things and gather the data they use and use their interpretations and design your faith to fit every belief you like.

 

[GallagherM]

@EmethAlethia Thank you for your very concise information that you have brought to the table. It would seem that you are right when it comes down to people and their own subjective beliefs and groups that they will attain to because of whatever truths that may tickle their ears of whatever they desire to be true. Though instead of follow the massive amounts of people who believe and proclaim their beliefs to be true you can go counter clock-wise of the broad way that people chose to openly embrace; following Christ Jesus the Lord through the narrow, difficult path that has winding turns, and parts in it where it seems like you may almost become crushed, though Jesus Christ has you by the hand guiding you to trust him that you are going to make it through by seeking God, in spirt and truth of what the bible has to present in its context, and even going as far to check external evidences. There has been many archeological discoveries as one example of an eternal evidences, and some writers back in history that have been found.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

God didn't Jesus into the world to change His mind about men. He sent Jesus to change
men's minds about God.

The reward and punishment God that I was taught about stopped to exist when Christ revealed
Himself to me and transformed my life. God is a merciful God who does not place conditions on
His love. It's what unconditional love means. If God places conditions on whether he'll love us or not, then Jesus words to forgive those who persecute us and love our enemies is fraudulent. We too could place conditions on others as to whether we'll love them or not. Such is not the case. God loves us and shows His mercy in becoming flesh in Christ Jesus, who showed us that He is the way.