Students demand end to bullying by other students.

[OldWiseGuy]

Not at all...just throwing out the idea that some controls in this realm could have efficacy.

I don't know why so many here in the US measure individual freedoms on the sole metric of "what guns am I allowed to have" and don't seem to consider anything else.

When CATO did their review of the Human Freedom Index, the US ranked 17th and is slipping further down every year.... (we used to consistently finish in the top 3)

Why is that? Because the party that was formerly the party of limited government has had severe tunnel vision over the past 15 years with respect to which individual freedoms they care about (and apparently there's only 1 or 2), and completely ignored the rest. Basically, it would seem they'd be content with a theocratic oligarchy if it meant they were allowed to own a bazooka.

Defending a freedom that's under attack doesn't indicate the 'sole' interest in that freedom. Attack some others and see what happens.

Look what happened when Michelle attacked the kids freedom to eat whatever they want in schools. They rebelled, and won.

 

[Liza B.]

...but there does need to be an acknowledgement that there's more to bullying than just physical harassment (swirlies, shoving into lockers) and blatant severe verbal bullying (making fun of people for their looks, etc...)

Obviously, like you said, there is some "victim culture" happening in today's society, and I get that...but I feel like many use the fact that some people do cry wolf as a justification for claiming that everyone is crying wolf (especially when the person crying happens to be from a group that they, themselves, don't tend to care for).

The gay community is not helping themselves though, if you're talking about LGBT, considering how many fake "hate crimes" they've perpetrated. That is just simply the truth, and nothing but.

Per the link that @iluvatar5150 posted before, there are some conservative groups that conflate the concept of "preventing anti-LGBT bullying" with "silencing Christianity". The irony is that those same groups are the first ones to claim they're being bullied over trivial things like coffee cups and schools not teaching intelligent design.

Really...Christians claim that's "bullying"? Not getting the correct coffee cup? Or not teaching intelligent design? I don't think so. And if so, I'd set them straight soon enough.

What I have seen instead--everywhere, from children on up--is that people speak out and then don't like they blowback they get. Um, nope. That's not the way it works. If you speak out, you get blowback. Example:

Child one: I don't like your shoes
Child two: That's wasn't a nice thing to say!
Child one: You're bullying me! By telling me I'm not nice!

That is hardly an exaggeration, btw, and I have seen it in my smallest students all the way to adults. Listen. If you tell someone you "don't like their shoes"--or the adult equivalent--you are GOING to get blowback. The blowback is NOT bullying. Bullying is NOT speak back. Sorry, it's just not.

 

[Ringo84]

I meant school shootings and the 2Amendment.

How come? What some people see as an absolute right to own a gun is interfering with these students' right to life and right to be "secure in their persons".

Get the Victim Culture right. The Victim is the one with permanent disability, which is whatever made him/her attack the other. Attach any label you like. Once they have it, THEY are the Victim, no matter how badly they beat down or assault others.

Just like happened in Parkland, actually.

Judge Judy Eye Roll GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY

(Love that gif. It's so expressive and concise)

Alternatively: much like gun owners who think that kids having the audacity to speak out on violence against them in their schools is tantamount to "grabbing guns".

There are few groups in this country more entitled than NRA types.
Ringo

 

[Liza B.]

How come? What some people see as an absolute right to own a gun is interfering with these students' right to life and right to be "secure in their persons".



Judge Judy Eye Roll GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY

(Love that gif. It's so expressive and concise)

Alternatively: much like gun owners who think that kids having the audacity to speak out on violence against them in their schools is tantamount to "grabbing guns".

There are few groups in this country more entitled than NRA types.
Ringo

Um, no, it is actually true that the Parkland shooter had a label and that's why he was shuffled around. That's why a lot of violence happens in our schools. That's why liberals look the other way. The people who perpetrate the violence just can't help it see.. they're Victims.

This is rampant in K-12 schools. If parents starting pressing charges every time their children were assaulted by children with "labels", no one would believe it. Truth.

 

[Ringo84]

Um, no, it is actually true that the Parkland shooter had a label and that's why he was shuffled around. That's why a lot of violence happens in our schools. That's why liberals look the other way. The people who perpetrate the violence just can't help it see.. they're Victims.

This is rampant in K-12 schools. If parents starting pressing charges every time their children were assaulted by children with "labels", no one would believe it. Truth.

He "had a label"? What are you even talking about? I haven't heard anyone call Cruz a victim, but they've rightly called the survivors of that tragedy victims. Is that supposed to be "wrong" now?
Ringo

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Really...Christians claim that's "bullying"? Not getting the correct coffee cup? Or not teaching intelligent design? I don't think so. And if so, I'd set them straight soon enough.

How many have used the phrase "War on Christianity" define every scenario in which a public or private entity doesn't side with them?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Defending a freedom that's under attack doesn't indicate the 'sole' interest in that freedom. Attack some others and see what happens.

Look what happened when Michelle attacked the kids freedom to eat whatever they want in schools. They rebelled, and won.

What are you referring to? They are attacking other ones... Trump is currently proposing attacking consumer freedoms via protectionist tariffs and his fan base isn't saying one word. He's surrounded himself with people who've made their intentions clear with regards to rolling back certain provisions for womens' right and LGBT rights, his fan have remained silent on that as well.

Freedom of religion (and I use the term loosely as many conflate that with meaning "I get to make everyone else live by my religious code whether it personally impacts me or not") and Gun rights are the only two they seem to care about.

They've shown that they only selectively care about freedom of speech... when there's a right wing protest, they support it (or at the very least, support the idea of them being able to do it), when it's a left-wing thing, "the police need to shut them down, they're communists, they're traitors, they're paid protesters from Soros", etc, etc...

Obviously they don't care about individual freedoms pertaining to what a free adult can or can't consume in their own home as Sessions was proposing ramping up the drug war. Trump (and his cronies) have publicly stated support for provisions that are blatant endorsements of civil asset forfeiture...so there goes the 4th amendment.

What are these other freedoms aside from guns and selectively applied 1st amendment rights that Trump supports are so passionate about?


As far as the Michelle Obama food thing, they opposed that simply because of her last name...had a conservative proposed the idea, they'd be raving about how great it was and how "it's so nice that the first lady cares about the kids". The fact that her ideas were even conflated as a restriction of freedoms was laughable. Nobody said kids couldn't bring in their own lunch, it strictly addressed certain standard for what the school served. She wasn't personally picking out which items got served, only setting guidelines. If the school cook can't make something that tastes decent that's under 1500 calories, that's the school chef's fault, not hers.

Of course a 4th grader is going to say that 6oz of turkey breast and green beans isn't as good as pizza and tater tots...kids getting no guidance in that realm is why we have elementary school kids that weigh as much as full grown adults should.

 

[SilverBear]

Really...Christians claim that's "bullying"? Not getting the correct coffee cup? Or not teaching intelligent design? I don't think so. And if so, I'd set them straight soon enough.

in the last 5 years religious conservatives have attempted to ban The Diary of Anne Frank in over 200 school districts across the country. Two reasons for the ban are given, FIist Anne makes a short comment on the changes her body is going through as she enters puberty, that makes the book inappropriate contentographic and the book promotes homosexuality because some evangelical decided that Anne was a lesbian.

 

[Liza B.]

He "had a label"? What are you even talking about? I haven't heard anyone call Cruz a victim, but they've rightly called the survivors of that tragedy victims. Is that supposed to be "wrong" now?
Ringo

He had a special ed label, in school. In school that absolutely made him a victim.

 

[Liza B.]

How many have used the phrase "War on Christianity" define every scenario in which a public or private entity doesn't side with them?

That's not bullying. There is definitely an animus toward Christianity--I mean look at the atheists who absolutely flock to Christian sites. This is proof, you are proof, right here. But it's still not bullying.

 

[SilverBear]

That's not bullying. There is definitely an animus toward Christianity--I mean look at the atheists who absolutely flock to Christian sites. This is proof, you are proof, right here. But it's still not bullying.

in 2005 Judge John E. Jones III a well known conservative justice ruled that intelligent design in reality creationism as as such could not be taught in schools. He and his family had to be put under 24 hour guard because of the thousands of death threats he received from Christians. Was this bullying?

 

[SilverBear]

Defending a freedom that's under attack doesn't indicate the 'sole' interest in that freedom. Attack some others and see what happens.

Look what happened when Michelle attacked the kids freedom to eat whatever they want in schools. They rebelled, and won.

How do you respond when the rights and legal protections of homosexuals are attacked?

 

[Liza B.]

in 2005 Judge John E. Jones III a well known conservative justice ruled that intelligent design in reality creationism as as such could not be taught in schools. He and his family had to be put under 24 hour guard because of the thousands of death threats he received from Christians. Was this bullying?

I wouldn't even call death threats "bullying". They're death threats. They're worse. I would also really question the Christian credentials of anyone who would call in death threats for a decision like that, as lamentable as it is. But maybe that's just me.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

How do you respond when the rights and legal protections of homosexuals are attacked?

Give me an example and I'll tell you how I respond.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

That's not bullying. There is definitely an animus toward Christianity--I mean look at the atheists who absolutely flock to Christian sites. This is proof, you are proof, right here. But it's still not bullying.

It's not animus...and the criticisms we make against religion aren't exclusive to Christianity.

 

[SilverBear]

Give me an example and I'll tell you how I respond.

you are kidding right?

in 2017 literally hundreds of bills were introduced in state legislatures allowing for the discrimination of gays and lesbians and you can't think of an example of the rights and legal protections of homosexuals under attack....right


Try Tennessee, SB 127, a bill that would allow contractors with state or local governments to discriminate in the hiring of gays and lesbians and permit such contractors to fire any homosexuals already in their employment.

Texas SB 6 would overturn any local ordnance protecting gays and lesbians from housing discrimination.

Mississippi HB 1523 makes it legal for employers to fire any employee they suspect his homosexual.

Texas HC 3859 lets health care providers turn away children whose parents are homosexual

do I need to go on?

 

[Ringo84]

He had a special ed label, in school. In school that absolutely made him a victim.

Right, but....I'm still not completely understanding. Are you saying that he's been made to be a victim, or that he was a victim because he was special ed?

While bullying is a serious problem in schools, it's a distraction away from the real issue: guns. I'm glad that many adults are finally figuring out that bullying needs to be fixed, but so do the gun laws. It shouldn't be either/or but both/and.
Ringo

 

[Dave-W]

While bullying is a serious problem in schools,

There is a fine line in stopping bullying and impinging on freedom of speech/expression.

And as someone who got beat up by bullies at least 2x a week thru several years of grade school, I think I have earned the right to speak.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Texas HC 3859 lets health care providers turn away children whose parents are homosexual

The proposal allows "faith based" care providers to refuse LGBT folks.

 

[Ringo84]

There is a fine line in stopping bullying and impinging on freedom of speech/expression.

And as someone who got beat up by bullies at least 2x a week thru several years of grade school, I think I have earned the right to speak.

I'm not sure who you think is impinging on your free speech, but I was a victim of bullying myself at times in middle school. I'm not dismissing the concern over bullying altogether. I'm just saying that many of the people who are suddenly talking about it are trying to distract from the focus on gun control in the wake of the student walkouts.
Ringo