Struggling with IFB convictions

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Where did I say every KJVO believes as AS does?
"Its this kind of stupidity that irks me about the KJVO movement. They honestly believe the KJV corrects the Greek." This is a generalized statement that you made. I am a King James Onlyist, but I do not believe as the Sluderites do. Yet, you said "the KJVO movement" which is an implication of every King James onlyist. If you didn't mean to say or imply that every KJVO believes as the Sluderites, you should have said something like, "It's this kind of stupidity that irks me about those that follow Andrew Sluder. They honestly believe the KJV corrects the Greek."

And then I would have hit that little green agree button on your post, and you wouldn't have heard a peep out of me; except you decided to lump all KJVO into that category, so you heard something from me.
 
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Sovereign Grace

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"Its this kind of stupidity that irks me about the KJVO movement. They honestly believe the KJV corrects the Greek." This is a generalized statement that you made. I am a King James Onlyist, but I do not believe as the Sluderites do. Yet, you said "the KJVO movement" which is an implication of every King James onlyist. If you didn't mean to say or imply that every KJVO believes as the Sluderites, you should have said something like, "It's this kind of stupidity that irks me about those that follow Andrew Sluder. They honestly believe the KJV corrects the Greek."

And then I would have hit that little green agree button on your post, and you wouldn't have heard a peep out of me; except you decided to lump all KJVO into that category, so you heard something from me.
I prefaced my remark by saying those that follow the idiocy of Sluder. I once was a KJVO too, but not to the stupid level of Sluder, Hamblin, et al.
 
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KitKat1230

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Honestly as a Southern Baptist, I think the idea that the King James Bible is the perfect and one true Bible weird, because the Bible's original languages being Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic, and the King James Bible, while a good translation, is a seventeenth century translation into English.

English is known to be a complicated, hybrid amalgamation of the Celtic languages, the Germanic languages, Latin, Norman French, Greek, and loanwords from several other languages (I've taken two History of the English Language classes in college). So while translations, even back then, could get the original words and contexts right 98-99% of the time, some things are certain to get lost or confused in translation. That's why I can't understand the logic that the KJV somehow improved on the original Greek. An interesting fact as well, is that the original 1611 KJV Bible included the Apocrypha, which most Protestant denominations, including the Baptist denomination, do not consider canon.

Not to mention, there have been multiple English translations of the Bible before the KJV, several from which the KJV took inspiration and copied, for example:
  • The Tyndale Bible (1534; the first complete printed Bible translated into English),
  • The Coverdale Bible (1535),
  • The Matthew Bible (1537),
  • The Great Bible (1539),
  • Taverner's Bible (1539),
  • The Geneva Bible (1560),
  • The Bishop's Bible (initially produced in 1568, then revised in 1572 and 1602),
  • and, for Catholic English-speakers, because most of these ones above were Protestant Bibles, The Douay-Rheims Bible (DRV) (the New Testament for this version was published in 1582, but the Old Testament in this version was published in 1609-1610).
That being said, I think the KJV is a good and poetic translation. I just think it's odd that people think it's the One and Only Bible that English speakers, or anyone else, should use and that not using the KJV reflects badly on one's faith. Feel free to correct me if I made any errors. :smiley:
 
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lilmissmontana

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i was baptized in the Assembly of God church ... never in a million years could i have guessed i would become a member of a Baptist Church ... but i am ... my family many generations back are Baptist ... i was raised Lutheran ... i feel more Pentecostal than anything ...but the Lord had a different plan for my life ...

i was baptized in the Assembly of God church in 2005 ... my spirit felt so at home there ... shortly after our pastor of 40+ years retired ... we were without a pastor for a year ... unnecessarily ... we had a young pastor there who worked with the retired pastor for a number of years ... some of the church members decided they didn't want him because he was divorced ... how sad that was because he fought the divorce ... he didn't want it ... and he loved the Lord so much ... after a year or so we received new pastor from somewhere far away to us ... the first thing he did was take down the picture of Jesus behind the altar that had been there for years ... i saw a seven year old little girl cry over that ... the next thing he did is remove every person from every job they were serving in the church ... some of them for many years ... he took over all the roles ... we had a Friday night live outreach for kids that was thriving with many kids from all denominations ... he ended it ... all these changes resulted in the church splitting ... an elderly much loved women who had gone to that church most of her life never went back to church ... the last thing i saw in that church was a young man not quite right in the head storm in the doors ... up to the altar with his Bible laying on his palm ... he slammed it down before the altar and said, 'i am a child of God' ...immediately four me came and lifted him on both sides ... put him outside ... and closed the door ... he was not welcome there ... my friend and i saw his Bible when he picked it up ... it had a hand print about 3/4 inch deep ... i never went back ... it is now closed and the Assembly of God no longer exists in our town ... i still cry over it ...

so the years went by ... occasionally i would try a church here and there ... but none of them felt right ... i have huge issues with theology being present in the church teaching and preaching ... it divides the church every time ... if the church began their sermon with theology i was gone ... time went on and i began ministering in several forums on the internet ... i like to put the Lords Word out on Sunday mornings especially ... so many have given up church ... about 4 years ago i went to my two grandsons (twins) funeral ... they lived one day ... it was at a Baptist church ... i knew when i was sitting there i would be back ... didn't know why or when ... but i knew ...

two Januarys ago i had accumulated a large amount of tithe and didn't know where to give it ... i decided to give it to a church i watch on tv ... he said no, it belongs to your local church ... immediately i knew i was to take it to that church ... i did, then the Lord showed me to keep going ... two years later i'm still there ... i have no idea why the Lord put me there ... but He did ... there are several large differences in theology than what i believe ... but you know what ... it doesn't matter there ... they believe it but don't preach it ... the pastor is precept by precept ... line by line ... i appreciate that ... when i was very ill for three months the church brought me and my family meals every night ... so many blessings i can't count ... i don't have to accept anything i don't want to there ... my soul still mourns for my old church ... but i'm excited to know some day why the Lord put me where i am now ... they use NIV ... i am a KJV because i love the beauty and depth of it ... i use it there and they don't care ... i consider that a blessing ... even if i couldn't i wouldn't leave ... how could i ... the Lord sent me there ...

so, i guess in telling you all this i would ask you ...

did you ask the Lord where He wants you ... if, not you may be surprised at His answer

and i would tell you ... i believe when God says all scripture is God inspires that it means all the translations ... meaning He can speak to you through any of them ... He meets you where yo are ... He says seek and you will find Him ... it's my personal belief that the KJV sticks closest to the manuscripts ... but they all have issues ... and i don't believe for minute the Lord punishes someone for the one they choose ... i believe in time if He needs you to look in another you'll know it ...

i also believe that we can learn from which ever one we use because the Holy Spirit leads, guides and directs into understanding and knowledge ... when i started with the KJV i was lost forever it seemed ... then one day i realized i was actually understanding it ... now the beauty of it touches my soul deeply ... we can't do it on our own ... ever ... not with any version ...

also i would tell you i'm an old lady and i've seen a lot ... we are very blessed to still be able to practice our religion and congregate and openly worship ... it's looking kind of ugly out there ... things like which translation and all that feel like little stuff to me ...

please forgive me for being so long-winded ...

that brings me back to ... where does the Lord want you would be the bigger question ...

may the Lord bless you on the Way ...
 
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KitKat1230

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i was baptized in the Assembly of God church ... never in a million years could i have guessed i would become a member of a Baptist Church ... but i am ... my family many generations back are Baptist ... i was raised Lutheran ... i feel more Pentecostal than anything ...but the Lord had a different plan for my life ...

i was baptized in the Assembly of God church in 2005 ... my spirit felt so at home there ... shortly after our pastor of 40+ years retired ... we were without a pastor for a year ... unnecessarily ... we had a young pastor there who worked with the retired pastor for a number of years ... some of the church members decided they didn't want him because he was divorced ... how sad that was because he fought the divorce ... he didn't want it ... and he loved the Lord so much ... after a year or so we received new pastor from somewhere far away to us ... the first thing he did was take down the picture of Jesus behind the altar that had been there for years ... i saw a seven year old little girl cry over that ... the next thing he did is remove every person from every job they were serving in the church ... some of them for many years ... he took over all the roles ... we had a Friday night live outreach for kids that was thriving with many kids from all denominations ... he ended it ... all these changes resulted in the church splitting ... an elderly much loved women who had gone to that church most of her life never went back to church ... the last thing i saw in that church was a young man not quite right in the head storm in the doors ... up to the altar with his Bible laying on his palm ... he slammed it down before the altar and said, 'i am a child of God' ...immediately four me came and lifted him on both sides ... put him outside ... and closed the door ... he was not welcome there ... my friend and i saw his Bible when he picked it up ... it had a hand print about 3/4 inch deep ... i never went back ... it is now closed and the Assembly of God no longer exists in our town ... i still cry over it ...

so the years went by ... occasionally i would try a church here and there ... but none of them felt right ... i have huge issues with theology being present in the church teaching and preaching ... it divides the church every time ... if the church began their sermon with theology i was gone ... time went on and i began ministering in several forums on the internet ... i like to put the Lords Word out on Sunday mornings especially ... so many have given up church ... about 4 years ago i went to my two grandsons (twins) funeral ... they lived one day ... it was at a Baptist church ... i knew when i was sitting there i would be back ... didn't know why or when ... but i knew ...

two Januarys ago i had accumulated a large amount of tithe and didn't know where to give it ... i decided to give it to a church i watch on tv ... he said no, it belongs to your local church ... immediately i knew i was to take it to that church ... i did, then the Lord showed me to keep going ... two years later i'm still there ... i have no idea why the Lord put me there ... but He did ... there are several large differences in theology than what i believe ... but you know what ... it doesn't matter there ... they believe it but don't preach it ... the pastor is precept by precept ... line by line ... i appreciate that ... when i was very ill for three months the church brought me and my family meals every night ... so many blessings i can't count ... i don't have to accept anything i don't want to there ... my soul still mourns for my old church ... but i'm excited to know some day why the Lord put me where i am now ... they use NIV ... i am a KJV because i love the beauty and depth of it ... i use it there and they don't care ... i consider that a blessing ... even if i couldn't i wouldn't leave ... how could i ... the Lord sent me there ...

so, i guess in telling you all this i would ask you ...

did you ask the Lord where He wants you ... if, not you may be surprised at His answer

and i would tell you ... i believe when God says all scripture is God inspires that it means all the translations ... meaning He can speak to you through any of them ... He meets you where yo are ... He says seek and you will find Him ... it's my personal belief that the KJV sticks closest to the manuscripts ... but they all have issues ... and i don't believe for minute the Lord punishes someone for the one they choose ... i believe in time if He needs you to look in another you'll know it ...

i also believe that we can learn from which ever one we use because the Holy Spirit leads, guides and directs into understanding and knowledge ... when i started with the KJV i was lost forever it seemed ... then one day i realized i was actually understanding it ... now the beauty of it touches my soul deeply ... we can't do it on our own ... ever ... not with any version ...

also i would tell you i'm an old lady and i've seen a lot ... we are very blessed to still be able to practice our religion and congregate and openly worship ... it's looking kind of ugly out there ... things like which translation and all that feel like little stuff to me ...

please forgive me for being so long-winded ...

that brings me back to ... where does the Lord want you would be the bigger question ...

may the Lord bless you on the Way ...

I'm so sorry about what happened with the Assembly of God church, but I'm happy that you found understanding and caring believers with whom to fellowship. And I agree, the KJV is a very beautiful and poetic translation that comes quite close to the original Hebrew and Greek texts.
 
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lilmissmontana

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I'm so sorry about what happened with the Assembly of God church, but I'm happy that you found understanding and caring believers with whom to fellowship. And I agree, the KJV is a very beautiful and poetic translation that comes quite close to the original Hebrew and Greek texts.

thank you, for your post ... may God bless you in all your ways today
 
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Jamdoc

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About 2 years ago I moved churches from non-denominational to Independent Fundamental Baptist church. Which I didn't know much about or understand at the time other than that they were more conservatively dressed and use KJV only. I do love the church but what I am struggling with is the KJV only part now. I am very involved now in ministry and what I see is a lot of self righteous attitude of we are using the only right version and everyone else that doesn't is wrong and in sin for using a corrupt version. Now I can respect that KJV is your preferred version I also like it, but to say that it is the ONLY correct and PERFECT version which is not true in regards to some grammar errors and the like but never the less a good version is difficult for me to deal with. I love this church and don't want to hold a bad attitude with them but I disagree with the KJV only idea and how the attitude towards other believers that come with it. Has anyone else come across and learned to deal with it in a lovingly manner without having to move churches?

my IFB church is KJV only but the Pastor isn't super dogmatic about it, they don't see it like the KJV was extra special divinely inspired, just that it's their preferred translation, which is how I feel about it too. I trust that God preserves the meaning of His word so I think you can even get the proper interpretation out of any English bible but if you're not well versed in scripture it can be easier to get a wrong interpretation from other versions. You almost need to have several bible versions and compare them side by side when you're talking newer versions because of copyright laws forcing them to make changes.. but with the KJV you can just read that.
But I'd still say that someone with something like a Geneva bible still has the Word of God in their hands.
 
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9Rock9

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I admittedly don't know much about the IFB, but my limited interactions with them were rather interesting.

I'm not fond of stereotypes, so I try to give all groups the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong.

On the surface, I like a lot of IFB beliefs, but stuff like this about the KJV keeps me from ever seriously considering them.
 
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When I was at university in Dublin, the favoured translation amongst students was the Revised Standard Version and the pastor of the church a lot of us went to also used it in his preaching, but when I went to work in Liverpool for a couple of years, the church I went to there was very much against it, saying that the Authorized Version was the only divinely inpsired translation.

I didn't dare let on I had an RSV Bible.

Gillian
 
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GodLovesCats

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It is very hard to find a church you agree with every single thing on. Just have to decide what's important.

The problem is people like me are unable to check off all the boxes for any denominations. I totally agree with the Baptist baby dedication and baptism practices, but just as strongly deny the "once saved, always saved" doctrine that is also taught in Baptist churches. It would be great if all churches accepted a variety of beliefs about the Bible instead of teaching stuff like you must read a specific Bible to be a Christian and only atheists can believe Earth is round.
 
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9Rock9

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The problem is people like me are unable to check off all the boxes for any denominations. I totally agree with the Baptist baby dedication and baptism practices, but just as strongly deny the "once saved, always saved" doctrine that is also taught in Baptist churches. It would be great if all churches accepted a variety of beliefs about the Bible instead of teaching stuff like you must read a specific Bible to be a Christian and only atheists can believe Earth is round.

I don't know of any mainstream Christian groups that think the earth is flat or some kind of atheist conspiracy.

If you reject OSAS, then you might want to take a look at the Free Will Baptists.
 
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GodLovesCats

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I don't know of any mainstream Christian groups that think the earth is flat or some kind of atheist conspiracy.

If you reject OSAS, then you might want to take a look at the Free Will Baptists.

On a politics forum, I had to put up with a Catholic insisting everyone who believes proven scientific facts is an atheist. Thank God he was finally banned in September. He is one of those religious nutcases whose behavior is is totally based on bigotry even though he quotes Bible verses to make his points.

Do free will Baptists support female church leaders and use modern English Bibles?
 
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9Rock9

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On a politics forum, I had to put up with a Catholic insisting everyone who believes proven scientific facts is an atheist. Thank God he was finally banned in September. He is one of those religious nutcases whose behavior is is totally based on bigotry even though he quotes Bible verses to make his points.

Do free will Baptists support female church leaders and use modern English Bibles?

I'm not sure, actually. I'm not that familiar with them. I know they are a little more on the traditional side, so they probably don't have female church leaders. Then again, they are congregationalists , so I'd reckon there are a few that do.
 
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GodLovesCats

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I respect traditions that do not contradict the Bible. Like the OP, a refusal to use any Bible except the KJV is not one of them. That rule is totally unbiblical IMO. But I also believe Christians need to be taught what matters most is your ability to understand everything without straying from the actual meaning of a word or sentence.
 
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