Stop asking God for help.

aiki

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If you're falling from the sky in a burning plane, then a prayer for God's help is quite in order; if you've been bitten by a poisonous snake miles from medical assistance, then asking God to help is perfectly sensible; if you've just catapulted through the windshield of your car in a head-on collision at sixty miles an hour, then a quick "God, help me!" is a very wise thing to do (if, of course, you're still conscious). But asking God to help you overcome sin, or be more patient with your spouse, or try harder to obey Him is actually very unbiblical. Why? Well, because you had the answer to these pleas for help the moment you were born-again. Huh? What am I talking about? The Holy Spirit, of course. In him you have all that you need to "live godly in Christ Jesus."

Okay. So, every believer has all they need in the Holy Spirit to live like God commands. Why, then, are so many not living like it? Why do so many feel like they desperately need God's help? Good questions. Ignorance is one major factor. New believers often aren't taught about their new life in Christ and how it works. They're expected to figure it out on their own - or not. Frequently, they don't. They just live in frustrated failure, pleading with God to do something. Of course, He already has; they just don't know it. A proper course of discipleship would easily remedy this but, strangely, few churches actually offer such a thing. Instead, it's just a string of often unrelated six or ten week Bible studies. This is not discipleship.

Another reason Christians ask God for help with the sorts of things God has already equipped them to overcome in the Person of His Spirit is that they don't understand the subtle intrusion of Self into the life God has called them to live. What do I mean by "Self"? I mean the "old man" (Ro. 6:7), or the "natural man" (1 Cor. 2:14), or the carnal, flesh-driven, self-centered person you were before you were saved. That person, that Self, is focused on itself. It maneuvers constantly to be at the center of everything in a person's life rather than God. It's that part of the Christian person that wants to do for God rather than letting God do for and through the person. But out of Self only comes more Self. In fact, it is Self that breeds all of our sin (Matt. 15:19; Jer. 17:9; Ro. 7:18 - 23; 8:7, 8; Ga. 5:17; Eph. 2:1-3). And so, God had to put that unregenerate, self-centered, flesh-driven "old man" (or woman) to death (Ro. 6:1-11). It is simply too corrupt, too incorrigibly evil and self-centered, to be made better by God. The problem is, though, that believers don't live like they are "dead to sin and alive unto God through Jesus Christ." They either don't believe they can't in their strength do for God in some measure, and/or don't see that Self is at work. They want to add their own bit to what God is doing in and through them. Self wants its finger in the pie of the Spirit's transforming work. And so, many Christians don't really live fully surrendered to God, dependent upon His Spirit always for all things. In an effort of Self they try to do what only God can do. Of course, the results are not good. And this leads to Christians pleading with God for help in being who He has called them to be.

But God's not really interested in just helping us. He's not playing a supporting role in our becoming like Christ. He's not there to catch us when we fall and prop us up when we grow weak. Not at all. He's aiming to be our very life. Because He is. What? What is this supposed to mean? Sounds like mystical, religious mumbo-jumbo, eh? Well, think about it for a moment: Who gives us physical life and sustains our existence moment-by-moment? That's right: God. Who does Paul say is the believer's life? Jesus (Col. 3:4), who is God. What did Jesus say about our ability to act apart from him?

John 15:5
5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.


All of our living, physical and spiritual, emanates from God. He is our life. Strangely, many believers don't live like it. They think of God mainly as an assistant, a divine aid to right living, not as the very life they possess as "new creatures in Christ." But this is what it means to be "in Christ." No more striving and straining to be like Jesus. Instead, we are to simply abide in the Vine as a branch and let the life-giving "sap" of the Vine (the power of the Holy Spirit) flow into us and transform us and bring forth the "peaceable fruit of righteousness" from us. Do you see a branch straining and struggling to be a branch, to remain attached to the trunk of its tree? Do branches quiver with the effort of gripping the trunk? Is it all on the branch to be a branch? No, of course not. The life of the branch is in the tree; it is just an extension of the tree, not an independent entity trying to suck the life out of the tree. But so many believers act as though they must work, they must try, to be a branch, to produce by their own effort the life of the Vine. And when they do so and fail, and fail, and fail, they begin to plead with God for help. And God says in response to their pleas, "You must die and Christ must live. He is your life, dwelling in you in the Person of my Spirit. Stop trying and just abide in me."

Philippians 2:13
13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
 
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Halbhh

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It's certainly good to pray when the need is great, and that's what I've done most of my life, praying only at those times, alone.

But..... Christ answered a question about how to pray, what to pray for --

To learn what to pray for when needs aren't great, we should each and all simply rely on the instructions from Christ Himself.

He even told us just what to pray for, in Matthew chapter 6 and in Luke chapter 11, and it's for ultimate things we need.

Christ also taught us other key things about how to pray at several places in the gospels, and one should be reading His Words if one believes in Him. Because if you believe in Him, then it's all for real, and His Words will never fail, and our very belief will make us seek to know what He said to us.
 
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Far Side Of the Moon

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I think prayer in the spirit is needed and should be done more oft3n, I need to do it more. I'm sure my life would change even more than it has if I did. The HS helps us to change but I don't think its wrong to ask for help.
 
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aiki

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It's certainly good to pray when the need is great, and that's what I've done most of my life, praying only at those times, alone.

But..... Christ answered a question about how to pray, what to pray for --

To learn what to pray for when needs aren't great, we should each and all simply rely on the instructions from Christ Himself.

Thanks for your comments!

I'm not suggesting we shouldn't pray. We should be in an attitude of prayer all the time! But when we pray for help with our pride, or our selfishness, or our fear, we are showing we don't understand who we are in Christ and what is ours as God's children. If we did, we wouldn't be praying "God help me be more humble," but instead, "God I recognize that you are my life and without you I can do nothing. I surrender to the transforming work of your Spirit and rest totally dependent upon you to make me more and more like Christ."
 
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aiki

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I think prayer in the spirit is needed and should be done more oft3n, I need to do it more. I'm sure my life would change even more than it has if I did. The HS helps us to change but I don't think its wrong to ask for help.

Thanks for commenting!

Got a question: If you're a born-again child of God when are you not in the Spirit?

I agree that there is nothing wrong with asking for help from God. But imagine if you had given me, say, a new car but I kept calling you up asking to borrow yours or for a ride somewhere. Wouldn't that be a bit...odd? Maybe even annoying? Why would I call you up for a ride to the grocery store when the car you've given me sits in my driveway just waiting to take me wherever I want to go? But this is basically what Christians are doing when they ask God for help with their struggle to be better people, to conquer sin, to be righteous followers of Christ. They are asking God for what is already theirs! So, no it's not wrong, exactly, to ask God to help you overcome sin in your life; it's just unnecessary and fails to recognize what God has already given to you in the Person of His Spirit.
 
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Acts2:38

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I think I see where your going at here.

When I read this part below though, you "hit the nail on the head".

But this is basically what Christians are doing when they ask God for help with their struggle to be better people, to conquer sin

People believe prayer is this magical incantation to solve all their troubles, and it just doesn't work that way.

Prayer is our ability to talk with God about our problems, to ask for help with situations, and to thank Him for His aid.
 
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brinny

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I agree with your point which was a bit hidden at first, because of my initial reaction hahaaaa

I understand your point better now...

and i agree our prayers should not be just "SOS's" to the living God or an expectation that they are somehow "magic".

To take it a bit further, we are to "pray without ceasing".....now that is a bit to chew on....but i suspect it means that as God's Holy Spirit is "within" us, that we are to engage in an ongoing "communication" with God's Holy Spirit within us.

Otherwise, what would we be doing, "ignoring" Him?

4chsmu1.gif


By the way, the above ties in to "walking with God".

Doesn't it?

"He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" ~Micah 6:8
 
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Halbhh

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Thanks for your comments!

I'm not suggesting we shouldn't pray. We should be in an attitude of prayer all the time! But when we pray for help with our pride, or our selfishness, or our fear, we are showing we don't understand who we are in Christ and what is ours as God's children. If we did, we wouldn't be praying "God help me be more humble," but instead, "God I recognize that you are my life and without you I can do nothing. I surrender to the transforming work of your Spirit and rest totally dependent upon you to make me more and more like Christ."

It struck me that you are saying the same thing I would but in different words, different wording.

In other words, if I were to say that same thing -- how we rely on Him, look to Him, abide in Him, in order that He transforms us -- it seems to be what you are saying also, just not in the words I normally use. I don't think that when I rely on Him as my only true way to change, only true way to bear fruit (John chapter 15), that means I would never need to pray for aid for a habit of sin that I need to break free from. Even when I repented, and was then changed, it was still possible to be snared in that trap again later, from outside of myself. It's correct that when I look to Him, abide in Him, then I'm out of that, but also it's true that as He said we can and should pray "lead us (you and me) not into temptation, but deliver us (you and me) from evil". He said this is a prayer I should make, and I know if He said it, then I should.

When I pray it, then I am indeed praying for aid to leave behind my sin, to be delivered out of the hand of the evil one. In other words, we need to pray not only when we are flying through a car windshield or falling backwards off a 2nd story roof above large rocks as I did (and I woke up without bruises!).... But also that we need to pray even in a normal day. As He did, and with the prayer He said to pray I believe, because I know when I do this prayer, it alters my day for the better, over and over, consistently.
 
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Halbhh

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I think prayer in the spirit is needed and should be done more oft3n, I need to do it more. I'm sure my life would change even more than it has if I did. The HS helps us to change but I don't think its wrong to ask for help.

Yes! That remembering Whom we are praying to! To God Himself, no less! Then that helps me to be utterly humble the way I need to be, and then I can pray with the aid of the Spirit, Who is with me, aiding me, if I am humble before God.
 
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aiki

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I think I see where your going at here.

When I read this part below though, you "hit the nail on the head".

People believe prayer is this magical incantation to solve all their troubles, and it just doesn't work that way.

Prayer is our ability to talk with God about our problems, to ask for help with situations, and to thank Him for His aid.

Hmmm...I guess my point is not as clear as I think it is. Let's see...how to put this better...

My OP wasn't really about prayer itself. It was about what believers are praying for. Imagine I'm a doctor who has given you pills to take away headaches. They are very powerful pills and can remedy any headache you'll ever have. But even though you have these pills, you keep coming to me, asking me to take away your headaches. What more can I do for you than I have already done? You have the pills. Now you must take them. You are suffering headaches needlessly and begging me to give you what you already have! Why would you do that?

Well, this is exactly what Christians do with God. At the moment a person is saved, God gives them the most powerful spiritual "headache medicine" ever: the Holy Spirit. He has the power to give every Christian total victory over sin and to make them like Jesus. So, why are Christians praying to God and asking Him for victory over sin and to be like Jesus? They already have within them all they need to "live godly in Christ Jesus." What they ought to be doing is surrendering themselves to the will and way of God's Spirit, and depending upon him all the time to change them. Instead, they struggle with sin, and fail, and then plead with God to help them to do better. But the problem isn't that God isn't helping them. It is that they aren't letting God change them. They are trying in their own strength to be godly; or they think it's some of their strength mixed with some of God's that will enable them to conquer sin and live a godly life; or they want to be a godly person without complete surrender and submission to God. And when this is so, the transforming, victorious power of the Holy Spirit is massively hindered in the believer's life.
 
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Halbhh

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It comes to me it's helpful to show what He said to pray --

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

“ ‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,

10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.

11 Give us today our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one. ’
 
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aiki

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I agree with your point which was a bit hidden at first, because of my initial reaction hahaaaa

I understand your point better now...

and i agree our prayers should not be just "SOS's" to the living God or an expectation that they are somehow "magic".

Right. I wasn't, though, talking about prayer itself but about what believers pray for. There is definitely a place for saying, "God, help me survive this bear attack!" But praying for help to overcome sin, or to be more like Christ is asking for a different kind of help from God. The former request of God is one concerned with physical, practical matters; it's a request for God to meet a physical need. The latter prayer request, though, is asking for spiritual assistance. My main point in my OP was that in the Holy Spirit, who comes to live within each of us at the moment we are saved, we already possess the answer to our requests for spiritual help. Am I clearer now, or just fogging up the mirror?
 
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brinny

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It comes to me it's helpful to show what He said to pray --

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

“ ‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,

10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.

11 Give us today our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one. ’

Interesting.

Would you care to elaborate?
 
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Halbhh

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The prayer Christ told us to pray, above, is also a prayer for aid to be delivered from evil, to be able to resist temptation.

In different wording, this prayer is for aid, from above, against our tendency to fall into sin, to be tempted and snared.
 
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brinny

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Right. I wasn't, though, talking about prayer itself but about what believers pray for. There is definitely a place for saying, "God, help me survive this bear attack!" But praying for help to overcome sin, or to be more like Christ is asking for a different kind of help from God. The former request of God is one concerned with physical, practical matters; it's a request for God to meet a physical need. The latter prayer request, though, is asking for spiritual assistance. My main point in my OP was that in the Holy Spirit, who comes to live within each of us at the moment we are saved, we already possess the answer to our requests for spiritual help. Am I clearer now, or just fogging up the mirror?

Yet we don't always wish to "heed" the promptings of the Holy Spirit, do we?
 
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aiki

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It struck me that you are saying the same thing I would but in different words, different wording.

In other words, if I were to say that same thing -- how we rely on Him, look to Him, abide in Him, in order that He transforms us -- it seems to be what you are saying also, just not in the words I normally use. I don't think that when I rely on Him as my only true way to change, only true way to bear fruit (John chapter 15), that means I would never need to pray for aid for a habit of sin that I need to break free from. It's correct that when I look to Him, abide in Him, then I'm out of that, but also it's true that as He said we can and should pray "lead us (me too) not into temptation, but deliver us (me too) from evil".

Thanks for your input!

Had Jesus died on the cross for our sins when he taught what he did in Matthew 6? Had the Holy Spirit come to dwell within believers when Jesus gave his example of how to pray? I'm sure you know that neither of these things had yet come to pass when Jesus taught what he did about prayer. Those of us on the other side of Christ's work at Calvary and the giving of the Spirit at Pentecost live in a very different spiritual condition than those to whom Christ spoke about prayer in Matthew 6. My OP was pointing out one of the ways in which this is so.
 
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aiki

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Yet we don't always wish to "heed" the promptings of the Holy Spirit, do we?

No, we don't. But changing this is a work of God, too. It's all of Him, this life in Christ that we live.

aiki, would you care to elaborate on what prayer "is", exactly?

Hmmm...what to say... Well, prayer is simply talking to God. Does God need us to communicate our mind and heart to Him in prayer? No. He has always known - even before there was a universe - what we would pray. But we need to do so. Prayer is for us, not God. It keeps us oriented on God and mindful of our never-ending dependency upon Him for everything. For we humans, communication is central and vital to every relationship we have with one another. If we don't talk, if we don't communicate in a relationship, it dies.

Much of prayer - for me, anyway - is a rehearsing of God's truth, a declaration of, and conscious committing myself to, the promises and truths of God's word. Prayer is often me defining reality in God's terms, not my own. I have a tendency, you see, to lose sight of what God says is true in the strong currents of what I feel and experience. Prayer re-orients me upon the Ground of All Reality and what He says are the real facts of the matter.

Prayer is also an important means by which I consciously express my gratefulness and love to God. It is, in this respect, a form of worship. Declaring my thankfulness to my Maker and listing out those things for which I am thankful is one of the most powerful remedies for dark moods and anxiety that I know of. It's very hard to be depressed and fearful when I'm recounting God's goodness, and faithfulness, and mercy to me!

How about you?
 
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brinny

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No, we don't. But changing this is a work of God, too. It's all of Him, this life in Christ that we live.



Hmmm...what to say... Well, prayer is simply talking to God. Does God need us to communicate our mind and heart to Him in prayer? No. He has always known - even before there was a universe - what we would pray. But we need to to do so. Prayer is for us, not God. It keeps us oriented on God and mindful of our never-ending dependency upon Him for everything. For we humans, communication is central and vital to every relationship we have with one another. If we don't talk, if we don't communicate in a relationship, it dies.

Much of prayer - for me, anyway - is a rehearsing of God's truth, a declaration of, and conscious committing myself to, the promises and truths of God's word. Prayer is often me defining reality in God's terms, not my own. I have a tendency, you see, to lose sight of what God says is true in the strong currents of what I feel and experience. Prayer re-orients me upon the Ground of Reality and what He says are the real facts of the matter.

Prayer is also an important means by which I consciously express my gratefulness and love to God. It is, in this respect, a form of worship. Declaring my thankfulness to my Maker and listing out those things for which I am thankful is one of the most powerful remedies for dark moods and anxiety that I know of. It's very hard to be depressed and fearful when I'm recounting God's goodness, and faithfulness, and mercy to me!

How about you?

I agree.

Where does Jesus fit in here when He was in the Garden of Gethsemane and sweat as it were, great drops of blood? Or when He was on the cross and cried out the why my God have You forsaken Me?
 
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Thanks for your input!

Had Jesus died on the cross for our sins when he taught what he did in Matthew 6? Had the Holy Spirit come to dwell within believers when Jesus gave his example of how to pray? I'm sure you know that neither of these things had yet come to pass when Jesus taught what he did about prayer. Those of us on the other side of Christ's work at Calvary and the giving of the Spirit at Pentecost live in a very different spiritual condition than those to whom Christ spoke about prayer in Matthew 6. My OP was pointing out one of the ways in which this is so.

His teaching is all still in force.

Every Word.

His Words will endure forever.

If you believe, you will want to learn all He said, and every one of us will learn more each time we read a gospel, even for a third or fifth time.
 
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