Stillborn baby resurrected

[WarEagle]

Not normative? Read the Acts of the Apostles. Everywhere they went, preaching the word of God, miracles followed. Miraculous signs and occurences brought many people to belief in Christ.

Shipwrecks that everyone survives
Poisonous snakes don't kill
Teleporting
Casting out demons
Healing the sick, lame, blind, deaf and diseased
Earthquakes that break them out of prison
Stonings that don't kill them
Demonstrations of power - including inflictions of blindness
Raising the dead

And many more.

Could you please cite the verses you're referring to and explain what they have to do with evangelism?

What were the apostles doing all throughout the book of Acts? They were ALL evangelizing ALL the time. And signs and wonders often convinced people that God is real and powerful and able to save.

Evangelism and signs and wonders go hand in hand.

OK. Can you please tell me why you believe that the verses I cited are wrong?

 

[WarEagle]

None of those verses preclude signs and wonders.

OK. Obviously this is just too difficult for you so don't worry about all of the verses.

Just pick one of them and explain why it tells us that evangelism is the preaching of the Gospel and not signs and wonders?

 

[merryheart]

OK. Obviously this is just too difficult for you so don't worry about all of the verses.

Just pick one of them and explain why it tells us that evangelism is the preaching of the Gospel and not signs and wonders?

Speaking of difficult

you are repeating yourself and not quoting me... I have repeatedly said that Evangelism is preaching salvation, and I will say it again.

Hows about *you* find a verse that says S&W will *not* appear when the Gospel of the Kingdom is preached since you are the one who disagrees?

 

[Tamara224]

Could you please cite the verses you're referring to and explain what they have to do with evangelism?

All of the events I referred to are recorded in Acts. You should be familiar with them. If you are not, refresh your memory by reading the entire book.

They have to do with evangelism because the Apostles were evangelizing.

OK. Can you please tell me why you believe that the verses I cited are wrong?

I don't believe the verses you cited are wrong. I believe you are narrowly cherry-picking verses and interpreting them wrongly to prop up a mistaken view of the purpose of signs and wonders.

That isn't evangelism.

According to 1 Cor 1:18, is it the preaching of the cross that is the power of God or is it signs and wonders?

According to 1 Cor 1:21, is it signs and wonders that saves them that believe or is it the preaching of the Gospel?

In 1 Cor 2:4, is God's power demonstrated through the preaching of the Gospel or through signs and wonders?

According to Titus 1:3, is the word of God made manifest through signs and wonders or through preaching?

According to Acts 16:10, did God call them to preach the Gospel or to do signs and wonders?

According to Romans 10:8-9, is it preaching or signs and wonders?

According to 1 Cor 1:17, did God call him to preach the Gospel or to do signs and wonders?

According to 1 Cor 15:11, did they believe as a result of the preaching of the Gospel? Or did they believe as a result of seeing signs and wonders?

In Galatians 1:16, why did Paul say that God revealed the Son in him? To preach the Gospel or to do signs and wonders?

According to Colosians 1:28, how are we supposed to present every man perfect? By preaching the Gospel or by signs and wonders?

According to Isaiah 52:7, does God commend the preaching of the Gospel or signs and wonders?

When the Ethiopian eunuch found Phillip, was he saved as a result of the preaching of the Gospel or by signs and wonders?

In each case, it's preaching the Gospel, not signs and wonders.

I believe these are the verses you are referring to? I'm not going to take each one at a time... that would be a waste of time. In their contexts I believe their meanings are obvious.

They just don't really prove the point you seem to be trying to make. Yes, we are told to preach the Gospel and not commanded to perform signs and wonders. That's because we don't perform the signs and wonders - God does. If we are preaching the Gospel, God will confirm Himself through signs and wonders when appropriate, according to God's will.

None of the verses you cited say that signs and wonders will not be a part of evangelism. While we can see from the book of Acts that, in practice, there certainly a lot of "Acts" done by the Apostles which were signs and wonders. They were clearly evangelists, going to various different places and preaching the word of God. And signs and wonders followed them.

Neither the preaching nor the miracles saved anyone, btw.

It is Christ who saves people. Through His death and resurrection, His Blood that was shed - He does the atoning work.

It is by preaching that God has chosen to get the word (that is, the Gospel) out to people that He loves them and is willing to be reconciled to them and has made a way to do it - through the blood of His own son.

Signs and wonders follow the preaching of the word (evangelism = preaching the word, the Good News) to confirm that it's not just talk, there's real power behind it. Signs and wonders are meant to be signs (that's why they're called signs) that God is real, more powerful than humans or any other god that humans have worshipped, and He has the power, ability and desire to save lost sheep.

That is why signs and wonders and the preaching of the word (aka the Gospel) go hand in hand.

No one is saved by the signs and wonders - and no one in this thread has said they are. Neither is anyone saved from just hearing the Gospel (Matthew 13:18-23) one must also believe in Jesus (John 5:24) and do the word (John 14:23). People are saved by the Blood of the Lamb.

Signs and wonders and evangelism are the tools God has chosen to use to spread the Word.

 

[WarEagle]

Speaking of difficult

you are repeating yourself and not quoting me... I have repeatedly said that Evangelism is preaching salvation, and I will say it again.

Actually, you've gone back and forth a couple of times. One time you'll say that you believe that signs and wonders are a part of evangelism and the next time you'll say that you don't. So I just respond to which ever one you said you believe in the most recent post.

Hows about *you* find a verse that says S&W will *not* appear when the Gospel of the Kingdom is preached since you are the one who disagrees?

That's not how we get our doctrine. We get our doctrine from what the Bible says to do, not what the Bible doesn't say not to do.

In any event, I notice that you're still ignoring the verses of scripture I cited.

 

[WarEagle]

All of the events I referred to are recorded in Acts. You should be familiar with them. If you are not, refresh your memory by reading the entire book.

In other words, you can't show where these things are found or what they have to do with evangelism.

They have to do with evangelism because the Apostles were evangelizing.

Actually, they weren't. In two of the examples you gave, Paul was travelling, not evangelizing.

I don't believe the verses you cited are wrong.

OK. So then why do you insist that signs and wonders are a part of evangelism, even though that is not the model shown in these verses?

I believe you are narrowly cherry-picking verses and interpreting them wrongly

Really? Could you please pick a verse or two and explain how I've interpreted it wrongly, particularly since I never offered any interpretation to those verses?

I believe these are the verses you are referring to? I'm not going to take each one at a time... that would be a waste of time.

In other words, you can't refute them.

They just don't really prove the point you seem to be trying to make.

And yet, in spite of having been asked several times, you still can't explain how I've gotten them wrong or why they don't say what I said they do.

None of the verses you cited say that signs and wonders will not be a part of evangelism.

They give a model for us to follow and don't say that we're to perform signs and wonders.

Neither the preaching nor the miracles saved anyone, btw.

Oh, so then you believe the Bible is wrong about that, too?

Signs and wonders follow the preaching of the word (evangelism = preaching the word, the Good News) to confirm that it's not just talk, there's real power behind it.

Right. In that day. There is no longer such a need of confirmation because we now have God's word to confirm preaching.

That is why signs and wonders and the preaching of the word (aka the Gospel) go hand in hand.

Then why did the verses I cite not say this?

Signs and wonders and evangelism are the tools God has chosen to use to spread the Word.

Verses, please.

 

[BenAdam]

MOD HAT

Benny and I are asking everyone to please tone the mood in the thread. Additionally this has gone way off topic. Please continue the discussion about signs and evangelism in another thread.
/MOD HAT

 

[irenemcg]

All of the events I referred to are recorded in Acts. You should be familiar with them. If you are not, refresh your memory by reading the entire book.

They have to do with evangelism because the Apostles were evangelizing.




I don't believe the verses you cited are wrong. I believe you are narrowly cherry-picking verses and interpreting them wrongly to prop up a mistaken view of the purpose of signs and wonders.



I believe these are the verses you are referring to? I'm not going to take each one at a time... that would be a waste of time. In their contexts I believe their meanings are obvious.

They just don't really prove the point you seem to be trying to make. Yes, we are told to preach the Gospel and not commanded to perform signs and wonders. That's because we don't perform the signs and wonders - God does. If we are preaching the Gospel, God will confirm Himself through signs and wonders when appropriate, according to God's will.

None of the verses you cited say that signs and wonders will not be a part of evangelism. While we can see from the book of Acts that, in practice, there certainly a lot of "Acts" done by the Apostles which were signs and wonders. They were clearly evangelists, going to various different places and preaching the word of God. And signs and wonders followed them.

Neither the preaching nor the miracles saved anyone, btw.

It is Christ who saves people. Through His death and resurrection, His Blood that was shed - He does the atoning work.

It is by preaching that God has chosen to get the word (that is, the Gospel) out to people that He loves them and is willing to be reconciled to them and has made a way to do it - through the blood of His own son.

Signs and wonders follow the preaching of the word (evangelism = preaching the word, the Good News) to confirm that it's not just talk, there's real power behind it. Signs and wonders are meant to be signs (that's why they're called signs) that God is real, more powerful than humans or any other god that humans have worshipped, and He has the power, ability and desire to save lost sheep.

That is why signs and wonders and the preaching of the word (aka the Gospel) go hand in hand.

No one is saved by the signs and wonders - and no one in this thread has said they are. Neither is anyone saved from just hearing the Gospel (Matthew 13:18-23) one must also believe in Jesus (John 5:24) and do the word (John 14:23). People are saved by the Blood of the Lamb.

Signs and wonders and evangelism are the tools God has chosen to use to spread the Word.

Amen Tamarra!

 

[BenAdam]

MOD HAT
http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7259131

Continue discussion here. Closing this thread temporarily.
/MOD HAT