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Stillborn baby resurrected

Discussion in 'Spirit-Filled / Charismatic' started by Amaryllismayfly, Jul 7, 2008.

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  1. DianeL

    DianeL Regular Member

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    Luke 7:21-23 (New King James Version)

    21 And that very hour He cured many of infirmities, afflictions, and evil spirits; and to many blind He gave sight.
    22 Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and tell John the things you have seen and heard: that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, the poor have the gospel preached to them. 23 And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me.”


    It always amazed me the order in which Jesus said this, first, demonstration of the Kingdom, then preach.

    God is so good! Praise Him
     
  2. WarEagle

    WarEagle Well-Known Member

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    I never said that Jesus didn't give the disciples the power to do these things in order to confirm His word to those who did not yet have it. I said that the Biblical model of evangelism is the preaching of the Gospel.

    How about if I just read that passage in it's proper context, instead?

    Paul isn't talking about going against the Biblical model, but about the Holy Spirit enabling his preaching.

    Not talking about evangelism.

    Right. Jesus did miracles to confirm His authority. You're not Jesus and this passage isn't talking about evangelism.

    Actually, you took that verse out of context. Read the previous verses. They show that this has nothing to do with evangelism

    Can you give me an example?

    For example, when Peter got up and preached on the day of Pentecost, what were the signs and wonders?

    Read a little further on down to v 12. Does it say that they followed the Lord because of signs and wonders or because of the preaching of the Gospel?

    That isn't evangelism.

    According to 1 Cor 1:18, is it the preaching of the cross that is the power of God or is it signs and wonders?

    According to 1 Cor 1:21, is it signs and wonders that saves them that believe or is it the preaching of the Gospel?

    In 1 Cor 2:4, is God's power demonstrated through the preaching of the Gospel or through signs and wonders?

    According to Titus 1:3, is the word of God made manifest through signs and wonders or through preaching?

    According to Acts 16:10, did God call them to preach the Gospel or to do signs and wonders?

    According to Romans 10:8-9, is it preaching or signs and wonders?

    According to 1 Cor 1:17, did God call him to preach the Gospel or to do signs and wonders?

    According to 1 Cor 15:11, did they believe as a result of the preaching of the Gospel? Or did they believe as a result of seeing signs and wonders?

    In Galatians 1:16, why did Paul say that God revealed the Son in him? To preach the Gospel or to do signs and wonders?

    According to Colosians 1:28, how are we supposed to present every man perfect? By preaching the Gospel or by signs and wonders?

    According to Isaiah 52:7, does God commend the preaching of the Gospel or signs and wonders?

    When the Ethiopian eunuch found Phillip, was he saved as a result of the preaching of the Gospel or by signs and wonders?

    In each case, it's preaching the Gospel, not signs and wonders.
     
  3. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I ask what the intent of - could have been Mickey? I still wonder what the answer is.

    Signs and wonders - often when people are healed then they get saved. Now and earlier -

    Act 5:12 "And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.
    Act 5:14 And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)"
     
  4. Hisgirl

    Hisgirl Loved into Heaven by a Violent Act of Grace

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    Wareagle, Jesus stated signs and wonders will follow them that believe. Mark 16:17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues.

    If you aren't moving in signs and wonders, how do I know you're a believer? I mean....I'm just going by what Jesus says here.

    And by the way, there's nothing wrong with being Berean. I followed up on the facts of the story and have confirmed the church where the young lady attends. I've spoken with the church and this is what they said:

    "Abby attends our church, *** ******** ********** near Brevard, NC. We know her personally and know her to be a person of uncompromising integrity and character. There is no question concerning the validity of this testimony.

    The name of the village where this miracle occurred is La Laguna. It consists of about 15 houses and is located in the San Pedro La Laguna area. The location is about a 9 hour bus ride from Guatemala City.

    You may enjoy sharing this testimony with the utmost confidence that it is absolutely true."

    I am leaving out the name of the church and the name of who I spoke with because there is some ugly animosity on this board and the last thing I want to do is subject this sweet church to anything less than a blessing.

    Tturt, I have to ask. Matthew 12:36 says " But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment." Even on my funniest days I don't have the cajones to imply the work of the Holy Spirit was orchestrated by Mickey Mouse. I hope God's in an excellent mood the day He shows you this quote. I'm sure He likes Mickey Mouse too.


    What it comes down to is faith. Either you believe we're called to do the works of Mark 16 and also do 'greater works' and demonstrate the kingdom through power...or you're a cessationist. Which would lead me to ask, why are you investing your time on a charismatic forum? :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2008
  5. WarEagle

    WarEagle Well-Known Member

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    OK. So in all of the New Testament's teaching about evangelism, why aren't we told that those things are a means of evangelism?

    What do you do with all of the verses I posted that show that evangelism is preaching the Gospel, not doing signs and wonders?

    Where does Jesus say that if you don't do signs and wonders you're not saved?

    I know for a fact that I'm saved because I can point to my salvation testimony and see that it lines up with scripture.

    I can point to the fruit that I've produced and see that it lines up with scripture.

    I can point to my doctrine and see that it lines up with scripture.

    See 1 John 5:10-13. My salvation isn't dependant on signs and wonders.

    And by the way, there's nothing wrong with being Berean. I followed up on the facts of the story and have confirmed the church where the young lady attends. I've spoken with the church and this is what they said:

    Then why won't you give her last name or the name of the church?

    Why isn't there any corroboration or medical confirmation?

    Well, that's certainly convenient.

    Believing the Bible's teaching about evangelism means that I'm a cessationist?
     
  6. BenAdam

    BenAdam Pirate King Supporter

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    Well since you brought it up, are you? Do believe that the Gifts of Spirit are for today, that they are given to and practiced by believers?
     
  7. WarEagle

    WarEagle Well-Known Member

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    No, I am not a cessationist, but I know that I will be continued to be accused of being one.
     
  8. BenAdam

    BenAdam Pirate King Supporter

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    If you state that you are not and I have no other evidence to the contrary, I will not accuse you of being one. I find that not only do you not emphasize the gifts of the Spirit, you at times (most likely due to the nature of the an internet forum) seem somewhat hostile to them.

    I agree that way too often they are held up as a thing unto theirown, however the Bible itself mentions miracles numerous times and how people reacted to them.
     
  9. Hisgirl

    Hisgirl Loved into Heaven by a Violent Act of Grace

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    Those who know me know of my character. They can trust my word regarding this north carolina church.

    Wareagle...did you go to Auburn? I'm an '82 graduate. :thumbsup:

    Wareagle, I used to attend a baptist church and I readily preached the gospel...using words. I showed the love of Jesus with casseroles to the sick and told folks about how they would burn in hell without Jesus.

    Then one day someone said God wanted me empowered with the baptism of the Holy Spirit and he layed hands upon my head praying for this. My arms and hands started tingling like electricity and NOW when I show the love of Jesus and preach the gospel, I can do it like Paul said in 1 Corin 4:20 For the Kingdom of God is not in word but in power. The empowering comes alongside the words to demonstrate the love of a good Father.

    Example: Drew, my friend, was eating at waffle house and got a word of knowledge about the waitress. He asked her if she had a son and then told her an affirming word from the Lord about her son and her role as a mother. Then he told her God wanted to heal her back and knee. She was shocked that he knew she had a painful injury in both places. He prayed over her, she was completely healed with the ability to do things she couldn't do before and he then led her to Christ.

    This is power evangelism in it's purest form. And, my friend, this ability is available to you and all of us. :) It should be natural to be walking in the supernatural.
     
  10. WarEagle

    WarEagle Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'm sure that will come as quite a shock to the folks in my church who have heard me preach and teach on them so often.

    I don't emphasize the gifts of the Holy Spirit in threads about evangelism because these gifts are given for the edification of the church, not evangelism.

    If there were a thread about the use of the gifts for the edification of the church, I'd be all over it.
     
  11. WarEagle

    WarEagle Well-Known Member

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    I trust God's word. God's word says to use discernment. Discernment says this is a hoax.

    You mean like the Bible says?

    That's great. You had a subjective experience. I'm still going to stick with scripture.

    I'm not interested in "power evangelism". I'm interested in Biblical evangelism.

    Interesting that you completely ignored the list of scriptures I provided that show that evangelism is preaching the Gospel, not doing signs and wonders.
     
  12. BenAdam

    BenAdam Pirate King Supporter

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    I didn't say you were hostile, I said you seemed hostile and that was likely due to the nature of this being an internet forum, a major distinction.

    I would argue that they are only for the edification of the body, The Apostles and company speaking in other tongues on Pentecost was noted by unbelievers, Peter and John healing the cripple (who was an unbeliever and subsequent notice by the Sanhedrin) just to name a couple off the top of my head.
     
  13. WarEagle

    WarEagle Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps I'm hostile to you because you keep calling me childish names.

    I'm going to assume that you mean that you would argue that they are not for the edification of the body.

    1 Cor 12 says that they are, so that's what I'm going with.

    I didn't say they were invisible to unbelievers, I said that their purpose is for the edification of the church.
     
  14. BenAdam

    BenAdam Pirate King Supporter

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    Your assumption was incorrect. I am saying that although they are primarily for the edification of the Body, they are not solely for the edification of the body.

    I think we have gone off topic from the thread at this point however and if we are going to continue this discussion we should move it to another thread.
     
  15. WarEagle

    WarEagle Well-Known Member

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    Oh, OK. I thought you were disagreeing with me. Good to see that we're on the same page.

    Now, be careful that somebody doesn't imply that you're hostile to the gifts of the Holy Spirit or start calling you names like you did to me.
     
  16. BenAdam

    BenAdam Pirate King Supporter

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    Well since I did call you trollish in public I hereby publically apologize to you. That was wrong and I humbly ask your forgivness.
     
  17. WarEagle

    WarEagle Well-Known Member

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    I notice that you never did edit your attacks out of your post.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2008
  18. Hisgirl

    Hisgirl Loved into Heaven by a Violent Act of Grace

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    A subjective experience? Not hardly. One day I couldn't speak in tongues, move in healing, or prophecy and one day I could. Praise God. The test is in the fruit. Nothiing like laying hands on a sick individual and seeing a surgery canceled due to the power of God's healing.

    And no...this baby story is not a hoax. I know another who himself was raised from the dead. You can read his testimony online. His name is Caspar Mccloud and he is easily contactable via email. Give him a call. He'll be happy to share his story and pray this same power for you. He has seen countless Baptists filled and empowered. I was one he prayed for and it changed my walk forever. :)

    Here at the local large southern baptist church, God is pouring out His Holy Spirit and people are speaking in tongues, healing the sick and casting out demons. It's happening in the methodist church too. All this according to Joel 2:28 "After this, I will pour my Spirit on everyone. Your sons and daughters will prophesy. Your old men will dream dreams. Your young men will see visions

    You say you are not a cessationist. That's awesome! What gifts of the Holy Spirit do you move in? :)
     
  19. WarEagle

    WarEagle Well-Known Member

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    Right. And it's the fact that you say that the test is in the fruit that shows that it's a subjective experience.

    Whatever gift God decides I should "move in".
     
  20. Hisgirl

    Hisgirl Loved into Heaven by a Violent Act of Grace

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    I prayed for you and sense the Lord saying you are after the hearts of the people. I see you willing to drop anything to go to someone in need. You are a servant and so readily serve where needed. After reading your posts, I would have thought you the intellectual type, but I feel the Lord says you are an action type and quite approachable in real life.

    If someone is in need....you're the man to call. That's awesome wareagle. A real giver you are.

    I shall ask the Lord to mightily bless you with blessings beyond measure. Unexpected and wonderful blessings. :)
     
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