Still think you live in a free country?

[inquiring mind]

I'm saying it's the devil talking in your mind. It's not God blaming Democracy based on the grievance that things could be better, while contradicting himself that the election was stolen.

I’m not sure what you’re talking about, but it will take God to get us out of this mess… we can’t vote our way out of it now.

 

[childeye 2]

I’m not sure what you’re talking about, but it will take God to get us out of this mess… we can’t vote our way out of it now.

There's a devil out there deceiving people. If you're reasoning upon something untrue then your reasoning will end in a contradiction. When we love others as ourselves, we will never contradict ourselves.

So in post #16 you said that you hoped the election was stolen, (so not to blame majority judgment), while lamenting above that we can't vote our way out. It's kind of like concluding that you hope the election is rigged even though that means we can't vote out a bad public official. That looks like a contradiction to me.

The grievance of "things could be better" only exists against the disburdenment that "things could be worse". Those are two opposing spirits. Typically The Holy Spirit wants us to be thankful for what we have, and it's the devil that constantly reminds us of what we don't have. But The Holy Spirit also would compel us to speak out against injustices done by those in power when they're legitimate. I have no idea what you're blaming Biden for when you make blank assertions, so I can't say which one should apply, or if either one even does apply.

 

[inquiring mind]

There's a devil out there deceiving people. If you're reasoning upon something untrue then your reasoning will end in a contradiction. When we love others as ourselves, we will never contradict ourselves.

So in post #16 you said that you hoped the election was stolen, (so not to blame majority judgment), while lamenting above that we can't vote our way out. It's like saying you hope the election is rigged so we can't vote out a bad public official. That looks like a contradiction to me.

The grievance of "things could be better" only exists against the disburdenment that "things could be worse". Those are two opposing spirits. Typically The Holy Spirit wants us to be thankful for what we have, and it's the devil that constantly reminds us of what we don't have. But The Holy Spirit also would compel us to speak out against injustices done by those in power when they're legitimate. I have no idea what you're blaming Biden for when you make blank assertions, so I can't say which one should apply, or if either one even does apply.

I should have seen it.

 

[Wolseley]

There's no need to disagree. It's a fact that Trump claimed the election was stolen by the Democrats and the media. It was a blank assertion because he presented no evidence to base that on. Why not just admit that these people simply believed what Trump said without any evidence?

Oh, there was plenty of evidence; there were reports all over the place of ballot-switching, malfunctioning voting machines, hundreds of thousands of magical votes for Biden appearing out of nowhere in the middle of the night, sacks full of mail-in votes for Trump being found in dumpsters, and more, and more. But those reports were clamped down on fairly quickly, and within a day or two of the "election", only the officially approved narrative put forth by the media could be accepted.

 

[childeye 2]

Oh, there was plenty of evidence; there were reports all over the place of ballot-switching, malfunctioning voting machines, hundreds of thousands of magical votes for Biden appearing out of nowhere in the middle of the night, sacks full of mail-in votes for Trump being found in dumpsters, and more, and more. But those reports were clamped down on fairly quickly, and within a day or two of the "election", only the officially approved narrative put forth by the media could be accepted.

Look at the semantics of Trump's own words. I knew Trump was lying when he declared publicly, months before the election, that the election is rigged if I don't win. That sentiment alone indicates that he was possessed of the intention to lie and claim the election was stolen without any evidence.

So I was not surprised to hear about the more and more shot in the dark reports of fraud just like we saw. Nor was I surprised when they one by one never showed or even indicated that there was a massive fraud perpetrated by the Democrats and the media, as Trump had falsely claimed. And people with the official capacity to investigate did look into the claims on behalf of Trump.

Trump officials, like Attorney General Barr, and Bobby Christine who was appointed as part of a Trump effort to investigate fraud allegations in the state of Georgia, ended up concluding that there were no election irregularities sufficient to change the outcome. Trump supporters like Ron Johnson, Lindsey Graham, whose offices looked into the reports, concluded he just didn't get enough votes. Trump actually fired Christopher Krebs, the head of the U.S. Government’s office monitoring the security of the election, when he reported that “The 2020 election was the most secure in U.S. history.”

Then we have Trump's own lawyers. There were over 60 court cases where judges, many appointed by President Trump and other Republican presidents, looked at evidence and heard claims of illegal voting and found they were without merit. From CLC:

• August 25: Linda Parker, the District Court Judge for the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan, imposed sanctions on Sidney Powell, Lin Wood, and seven other pro-Trump lawyers for filing a lawsuit calling the outcome of the 2020 presidential election into question, “…in bad faith and for improper purpose.” The judge also recommended that the bar associations for each lawyer look into suspending or disbarring them. (Politico)

Then there's the lawsuit against Giuliani for spreading disinformation about dominion voting systems. In his deposition he said under oath that he thinks he got the information on Facebook or somewhere and he never even vetted it. His law license was actually suspended in the State of New York.

Then we have exhaustive recounts that took place in swing state districts and audits, all showing no fraud on any such scale necessary to support Trump's lie. The infamous audit in Arizona ultimately ended in increasing Biden's lead.

The fact is the Republican Party under Trump has adopted a cult following that threatens to do damage to all Americans and even kill people if they don't believe and promote Trump's self serving lies about any and all who oppose him.

 

[Wolseley]

Look at the semantics of Trump's own words. I knew Trump was lying when he declared publicly, months before the election, that the election is rigged if I don't win. That sentiment alone indicates that he was possessed of the intention to lie and claim the election was stolen without any evidence.

So I was not surprised to hear about the more and more shot in the dark reports of fraud just like we saw. Nor was I surprised when they one by one never showed or even indicated that there was a massive fraud perpetrated by the Democrats and the media, as Trump had falsely claimed. And people with the official capacity to investigate did look into the claims on behalf of Trump.

Trump officials, like Attorney General Barr, and Bobby Christine who was appointed as part of a Trump effort to investigate fraud allegations in the state of Georgia, ended up concluding that there were no election irregularities sufficient to change the outcome. Trump supporters like Ron Johnson, Lindsey Graham, whose offices looked into the reports, concluded he just didn't get enough votes. Trump actually fired Christopher Krebs, the head of the U.S. Government’s office monitoring the security of the election, when he reported that “The 2020 election was the most secure in U.S. history.”

Then we have Trump's own lawyers. There were over 60 court cases where judges, many appointed by President Trump and other Republican presidents, looked at evidence and heard claims of illegal voting and found they were without merit. From CLC:

• August 25: Linda Parker, the District Court Judge for the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan, imposed sanctions on Sidney Powell, Lin Wood, and seven other pro-Trump lawyers for filing a lawsuit calling the outcome of the 2020 presidential election into question, “…in bad faith and for improper purpose.” The judge also recommended that the bar associations for each lawyer look into suspending or disbarring them. (Politico)

Then there's the lawsuit against Giuliani for spreading disinformation about dominion voting systems. In his deposition he said under oath that he thinks he got the information on Facebook or somewhere and he never even vetted it. His law license was actually suspended in the State of New York.

Then we have exhaustive recounts that took place in swing state districts and audits, all showing no fraud on any such scale necessary to support Trump's lie. The infamous audit in Arizona ultimately ended in increasing Biden's lead.

The fact is the Republican Party under Trump has adopted a cult following that threatens to do damage to all Americans and even kill people if they don't believe and promote Trump's self serving lies about any and all who oppose him.

And the wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round; 'round and 'round; 'round and 'round.....

Just because the six major media companies repeat it endlessly still doesn't make it true. Not even a generous dollop of Trump Derangement Syndrome makes it true. I mean, you're welcome to believe it if you want, but don't be surprised if people don't automatically fall into line with your thinking.

 

[childeye 2]

And the wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round; 'round and 'round; 'round and 'round.....

I'm sorry, I don't know what this means?

Just because the six major media companies repeat it endlessly still doesn't make it true.

Of course not. It's wise to be skeptical about what we're told to believe, but the spirit of cynicism is an insanity that denies reality through negative prejudice, not facts. The sources I gave are a matter of official public record and they are facts.

Not even a generous dollop of Trump Derangement Syndrome makes it true.

You need to learn what Trump derangement syndrome means. I've presented no conclusions based on prejudice.

you're welcome to believe it if you want, but don't be surprised if people don't automatically fall into line with your thinking.

Those are words that speak out of prejudice. Apparently you think people get to believe whatever they want to believe and think whatever they want to think. But what about the voice of God, His word? Do we attempt to filter our thoughts through His Word? In other words, is there a devil trying to plant lies in our heads? I don't get to believe whatever I want to believe if you can believe that. Nor is the way I think, my own way as if I didn't learn it. Neither you or I can actually choose our reality even because The Truth is authoritative and dictates to us how it is, whether we admit that or not. We're either informed in the knowledge of what is True and walk in the Light thereof, or we're ignorant of it and walk in the darkness thereof. That's the whole point of reasoning upon the existence of God as a precept. God would not have me believe bad things said about others and repeat those bad things about others without evidence, because that's wickedness.

 

[Wolseley]

I'm sorry, I don't know what this means?

It means we can debate all day, but we'll end up right back where we started, because neither one of us will be convinced.

Of course not. It's wise to be skeptical of about what we're told, but the spirit of cynicism is an insanity that denies reality through negative prejudice, not facts. The sources I gave are a matter of official public record and they are facts.

They might be a matter of official record, but facts, they are not. They are constructions presented by the media as truth. However, the media is unworthy of anyone's trust. They lie constantly. Just because the media presents something and says "These are the facts" doesn't mean diddly-squat.

You need to learn what Trump derangement syndrome means. I've presented no conclusions based on prejudice.

I didn't say you were afflicted with TDS. I was speaking in general terms.

Those are words that speak out of prejudice. Apparently you think people get to believe whatever they want to believe. But I don't get to believe whatever I want to believe. Nor is the way I think, my own way as if there's some kind of competition based on pride. Neither you or I can choose our reality even because The Truth is authoritative and dictates to us how it is, whether we admit that or not. We're either informed in the knowledge of what is True and walk in the Light thereof, or we're ignorant of it and walk in the darkness thereof. That's the whole point of reasoning upon the existence of God as a precept. God would not have me believe bad things said about others and repeat those bad things about others without evidence, because that's wickedness.

You seem to be equating Divine Truth with media presentations. They are not the same thing. I accept what God tells us in His Word; about the only thing I accept as true from the media is the weather report, and sometimes not even then.

 

[childeye 2]

It means we can debate all day, but we'll end up right back where we started, because neither one of us will be convinced.

I don't want to practice cynicism since it betrays loving others as myself, so I don't agree. Instead I have a sincere belief that anyone can see the truth if they're honest.

They might be a matter of official record, but facts, they are not. They are constructions presented by the media as truth.

Official public records are as factual as any reasonable citizen is going to get. Every American cannot possibly witness every other American cast their vote. What do you think they use to do audits and prove/disprove election fraud? And let's be real, how is there any sanity in falsely claiming that public records are media constructions? You either misspoke, or you believe the media transcends reality.

However, the media is unworthy of anyone's trust. They lie constantly. Just because the media presents something and says "These are the facts" doesn't mean diddly-squat.

Of course not, but public records are not media productions much less media constructions. So why reason upon the lie that they are?

You seem to be equating Divine Truth with media presentations.

I'm not defending the media at all. I'm stating that it's immoral to claim the Democrats and the media stole the election without any evidence, and that it's immoral to believe the Democrats and the media stole the election without any evidence. Distrust of the media and the official public record is not an excuse for such behavior.

 

[Wolseley]

And the wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round; 'round and 'round; 'round and 'round.....

 

[chevyontheriver]

I wonder if they'll do the same for this bunch? Ten to one says they won't:

'Reminiscent of Jan. 6': Violent protesters arrested after storming Interior Department, injuring officers | Fox News

It was peaceful, I reiterate peaceful, and no charges should be filed against the peaceful protesters. There should be charges filed against the out of control guards who denied the people access to the people’s property. Old Joe Biden will fix it.

 

[chevyontheriver]

2022

So 2022 is the new 1984?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

So 2022 is the new 1984?

2022 is pregnant with possibilities.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It was peaceful, I reiterate peaceful, and no charges should be filed against the peaceful protesters. There should be charges filed against the out of control guards who denied the people access to the people’s property. Old Joe Biden will fix it.

We need the names of all the armed protesters, and what weapons they entered with, and how many shots they fired, and which rooms of the capital were sanctified as sacred.

 

[Wolseley]

We need the names of all the armed protesters, and what weapons they entered with, and how many shots they fired, and which rooms of the capital were sanctified as sacred.

To the best of my knowledge, the only shots fired on January 6th were fired by a Capitol cop at an unarmed woman, killing her.

Many of the protestors were carrying objects that could be used as weapons (batons, a stun gun), and a very few actually had firearms---but none, repeat, NONE of the protestors fired any shots.

As for "sacred rooms", what they were trying to do was get into the House chamber, which was in session....I suspect what they wanted to do was confront, face-to-face, the Distinguished Members of the Clown Circus, who were ignoring all requests from the People to re-examine the election. The "representatives", once again, were refusing to represent the People, whom they claim to represent; so, the People decided to try to make them listen.

Personally, I don't think they would have harmed anybody; if they'd meant to start busting caps, they would have done it long beforehand, which they hadn't. If the Capitol cops hadn't charged in like a herd of enraged moose, probably nobody would have gotten hurt. That's just my speculation, of course, but I stand by it.

So why did all this nonsense transpire? Easy enough. The senior cadre of the Distinguished Members of the Clown Circus colluded with the media and numerous other Vested Interests to steal the election, which they did. The People, realizing the whole thing smelled like a week-old catch of decaying halibut in a hot sun, demanded that the election be re-examined. The Clown Circus couldn't do that, of course, because they'd be exposed and caught with their pants down and their hands in the cookie jar. So, they did what smug, self-assured, arrogant, entitled bureaucrats always do when they're confronted with people they don't want to deal with: they declared themselves "above it all" and ignored them.

This usually works pretty well for them; they've spent decades painting themselves as "leaders", who are exalted far higher than we mere peasants, who must come begging and groveling to them with our paltry requests. But this time, it didn't work. The January 6th protestors had enough of being sneered at and airily dismissed---so they decided that this time, they would be heard. They went to the Capitol in person, do demand a hearing from the people who refused to hear them by any other means.

So what happened? The Clown Circus, once they got wind of this, went into a complete meltdown panic, and started calling everybody from the Capitol cops to Irv's Pizzeria to come and protect them, poor things, from the enraged mob outside the doors with torches, ropes, and pitchforks (except that they didn't actually carry torches, ropes and pitchforks). Many of the Distinguished Members, to this very day, claim to suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder and anxiety from believing that the Awful Mob might actually have gotten into the chamber, and they'd actually have to listen to what their constituents wanted them to hear, a scenario that most of them were encountering for the first time in their august careers.

The Capitol Police went bulling into the situation to protect the People's Servants from the People, and the rest is history. The cops were determined to keep the People out of the Capitol, because the Capitol, after all, is the "house of gummint", and that foul, unwashed pack had no business in there----a concept not unlike the owner of a McDonald's outlet being refused entry into his own restaurant because the employees inside don't want to talk to him, so they call the police to arrest their boss and keep him out.

In 1932, huge numbers of World War I veterans descended on Washington, and started camping out, demanding that they be awarded the service bonus they'd been promised to receive in 1944. It was the height of the Great Depression, and most of these families were in pretty dire circumstances. They wanted to explain their side of things. Herbert Hoover refused to have anything to do with them, and called out the Army to rout them. Chaos ensued: there were deaths, families lost what little they had when troops burned their encampments, and there were charming encounters such as the case where an eleven-year old boy tried to run back into his family's burning hut to save his beloved pet rabbit from being burned alive, and a trooper snarled, "Get the **** out of here, you little *** of a *****," and bayoneted the child in the leg. General Douglas MacArthur, author of the debacle, strutted around a mile or so away, smacking his swagger stick against his riding breeches and "directing the campaign".

By nightfall, the veterans had been cleared from downtown Washington, and were trailing west on the roads into Virginia; many of them were seriously injured, many of them had lost everything they had. Many of them were too demoralized to even be angry. A reporter described the ragged caravan of walking men, women, and children as looking like something from a purge inflicted on the population of a banana republic.

Franklin Roosevelt, who at the time was running for President, learned about the whole thing and was absolutely aghast. Turning to his son and aides, he lamented, "Why on earth didn't Hoover go down there with coffee and sandwiches and talk to those men, instead of turning Doug MacArthur loose on them? What are they going to do now? They're spread all over the roads with no place to go. They must be in terrible shape!"

It was a hallmark of Roosevelt's manner of business that the People must come first. When he entered the Oval Office, his first order was that any American citizen calling the White House for help was not, under any circumstances, to be cut off. Somebody in the administration had to be found to talk to them and help them out.

Contrast that attitude with the activities of the Clown Circus. That'll tell you just about all you need to know, right there. Do you think Nancy Pelosi would have ordered coffee and sandwiches for the January 6th protestors and actually sat down with them to hear their complaints? ***HA!!!***

 

[Wolseley]

Once again, I didn't mean to write a novel, but I got carried away. Sorry about that.

 

[chevyontheriver]

We need the names of all the armed protesters, and what weapons they entered with, and how many shots they fired, and which rooms of the capital were sanctified as sacred.

You are referring to the January 6th thing, right? And not the invasion of the Udall center by the leftists? Because those are the guys I was referring to, those 'peaceful' protesters who got arrested trying to take the Udall building.