Stephen Hawking's Universe

[Cantuar]

Is that what it sounds like to you?

No. ALS isn't well enough understood for people to know why some people live longer than others after a diagnosis. What I'm saying is that if you think the diseases of these two men are somehow related to their spiritual condition, it seems very strange that they'd first have been afflicted with fatal diseases and then let live for decades past the usual lifespan. Far as I'm concerned, we're dealing with natural processes. Far as you're concerned, you must be dealing with a deity with a seriously sick sense of humour.

 

[Siliconaut]

In theory, I suppose it would be possible to attack Rev. Angley, if you could find something in his life that God was not a part of. But I do not think that you would be able to do that. Because God is a part of every area and every aspect of his life. So an attack on Rev. Angley is pretty much an attack on God, because it is God who is at work in Him.

Careless cult leaders suffer premature dishonorment by having photos of them with underage boys published in nation-wide magazines. I doubt Angley would be careless enough to let his depravity show already, when he can continue reaping in riches now and have fun with underage boys later...

Also, if you could find an area in his life that God was not a part of, he would know it at the same time you became aware of it, and he would correct it right away. Been there, seen it, done it.

So if a newspaper published pictures of him with underage boys, he'd read the newspaper and KNOW IMMEDIATELY (!) that he has been caught red-handed, after which he would swear sticks and bones that he will cease such behaviour because SUDDENLY he noticed his god was not part of it?

The only way you can know anything about a person is if the Holy Spirit of God were to search them out and reveil it to you. But God is not a gossip, He does not talk about people behind their back. So He would not reveil anything to you, that he would not reveil to Rev. Angley at the same time He were to reveil it to you.

I don't know where you concocted this, but it would certainly explain why the catholic church has a problem with pedophile priests on a merry go-around between dioceses.

Furthermore, you have yet to present evidence that it is indeed your god working in Angley, when all you have told us so far indicate quite the opposite.

But by all means, search him out and tell me if you can find an area in his life that God is not a part of. I know people make up all sorts of lies about him. But tell me something that is true.

For me, it is enough that your church - and thus Angley - is killing people by withholding, or at the very least discouraging - medical treatment. There's an area a self-respecting god will have no part of...

You say this, that and the other about me. But what if I am the one that God has sent to you, then what does that say about you? Perhaps you could pray and God would send someone more to your liking, or someone you feel is more agreeable. If that is what your really looking for, someone who agrees with you. Talk about ego.

Talking of delusions of grandeur again... Is there a psychological term like "messianic complex"? I don't think "Cassandra's syndrome" would qualify, because for this, John's predictions and assertions would have to be right all the time... 8)

I am not looking for people who agree with me. I am looking for people who are in agreement with God. I do not want people who represent themself, or who represent man in any way. I want to associate with people who represent God in all they do.

Unfortunately, in your mind, only those who bow to Angley and his chosen messenger boy qualify. The only people you'll reach through your style of discussion by ignoring, will be those already brainwashed by your cult. Well, "inner outreach" is gravely underestimated...

 

[JohnR7]

I don't know where you concocted this, but it would certainly explain why the catholic church has a problem with pedophile priests on a merry go-around between dioceses.

Isn't there a board around here some place where you can take that issue up with the catholics?

Furthermore, you have yet to present evidence that it is indeed your god working in Angley, when all you have told us so far indicate quite the opposite.

The evidence is in the healings, miracles & salvations that we have $500,000 worth of video equipment to capture them on, and we broadcast them on one third of the tv sets in the world today. The blind see, the deaf hear, the lamb walk, sinners are cleased of their sin. So we have the evidence. You just don't want to examine the evidence.

For me, it is enough that your church - and thus Angley - is killing people by withholding, or at the very least discouraging - medical treatment. There's an area a self-respecting god will have no part of...

That is just another lie. We have doctors and nurses that are a part of our ministry, lots of nurses. We believe in good doctors, good hospital, and good medicine. Often there are people who go to the doctors first to get the best of what man has to offer them, then the go to God to receive God's help for the problems they are having.

Talking of delusions of grandeur again... Is there a psychological term like "messianic complex"? I don't think "Cassandra's syndrome" would qualify, because for this, John's predictions and assertions would have to be right all the time... 8)

Oh, now here is a origional one. Christian are to be like Jesus in any way. But now if you start to actually act like a Christian they say you have a "messianic complex". That is a new one. So what you recommend that people act like dead christians with none of the power of God in them? My Bible says to stay away from so called christians who have a form of godliness but none of the power.

2 Tim. 3:5
having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!

 

[JohnR7]

No. ALS isn't well enough understood for people to know why some people live longer than others after a diagnosis.

They say that about 10% of those with ALS live longer than 10 years. My grandmother lived to be over 100 and there is only a 1% chance of her having done that.

What I'm saying is that if you think the diseases of these two men are somehow related to their spiritual condition,

Maybe you should go back and read some of Nathan's posts. I thought we had this explained by now that the physical is a symbolic representive of the spiritual and does not always indicate personal sin. Have you been keeping up with this post at all?

How can we manage to go though 100 posts and you have us right back at the beginning? Nathan does this for a living, so with all due respect, let him do his best to explain it, and then I will fill in with what he is not able to figure out or explain.

 

[Jet Black]

why do the heathen Japanese live so long? or the heathens in that village in china which has the highest percentace of centarians in the world. hasn't god got round to smiting them yet?

 

[JohnR7]

why do the heathen Japanese live so long?

If they are heathen then maybe God is giving them a chance to repent. My grandmother did not get saved until she was 99 years old.

 

[Jet Black]

what's the point? he knows they won't.

 

[Siliconaut]

@John:

I don't know where you concocted this, but it would certainly explain why the catholic church has a problem with pedophile priests on a merry go-around between dioceses.

Isn't there a board around here some place where you can take that issue up with the catholics?

No doubt, but my point is that you posted God wouldn't allow Angley's possible misconduct to be known before telling Angley about it. Well, it seems he doesn't communicate to the catholic priests that way - and it's doubtful your guru has a direct line, anyway...

The evidence is in the healings, miracles & salvations that we have $500,000 worth of video equipment to capture them on, and we broadcast them on one third of the tv sets in the world today. The blind see, the deaf hear, the lamb walk, sinners are cleased of their sin. So we have the evidence. You just don't want to examine the evidence.

That is no evidence that hasn't already been examined, but a mere sham practised by travelling showmen and "preachers" for centuries. Induce frenzy and hysteria, bump 'em over the head and have ushers wheel out the cripples again. Since there's no paper better equipped to handle religious matters than the "Penthouse", I'll give you a link to a nice article about faith healers in general and Angley specifically: http://www.newwave.net/~haught/pent1.html
The bottom line is: Angley's a successful shamster, tricking people into financing his own luxury life, who has failed to deliver a *single* healing that can count as long-term, non-placebo. Sorry John, you're simply buying that sucker a grand new house.

A book I'd recommend to everyone is "Faith Healers" by James Randi & Carl Sagan (http://www.professional-books.com/product/0879755350/AsinSearch/8/), where the tricks of the trade are dissected and exposed. Even to those who believe in faith healings: Reading does not hurt, and you certainly wouldn't want to spend your cash and health on a shameless extortionist like Angley.

That is just another lie. We have doctors and nurses that are a part of our ministry, lots of nurses. We believe in good doctors, good hospital, and good medicine. Often there are people who go to the doctors first to get the best of what man has to offer them, then the go to God to receive God's help for the problems they are having.

Wrong - Angley explicitly tells people to give the money to him instead of doctors as well as to ignore their financial situation and give more money than they think they can. This is no simple thief, but a grand-scale scoundrel thriving and living large on ignorance and misguided belief. If there are doctors in your organisation, then their very attitude would make them unfit for their job. I for one certainly wouldn't want to die at the hands of someone who thinks the money for my antibiotics should rather go into a gold-plated toilet for aggravating Angley...

Oh, now here is a origional one. Christian are to be like Jesus in any way. But now if you start to actually act like a Christian they say you have a "messianic complex". That is a new one. So what you recommend that people act like dead christians with none of the power of God in them? My Bible says to stay away from so called christians who have a form of godliness but none of the power.

*Your* bible is the next man's Necronomicon. Don't you get that Angley doesn't have "godliness", but just a well-oiled racket running? And he caught you hook, line and sinker? Your "messianic complex" is not defined by using god-given powers, but rather by assuming - contrary to all evidence - that god actually speaks to you. From all the bunk you have posted so far, it is pretty obvious that he either doesn't, or you simply never get his message.

 

[JohnR7]

That is no evidence

We got more evidence than you got. Where is your video.

For evoluionists where is your video to show that God created though evoluion.

 

[Siliconaut]

If they are heathen then maybe God is giving them a chance to repent. My grandmother did not get saved until she was 99 years old.

Well-done, John! You've struck another blow to christianity by proposing it's actually better to live a happy heathen life on account of god favoring heathens a longer life.

Talking of defenders of faith...

 

[Siliconaut]

@John:

We got more evidence than you got. Where is your video.

For evoluionists where is your video to show that God created though evoluion.

Is that all you could do? Evolution's evidence is the fossil record - and that's better than a slanted video of a bamboozle. Does Angley have the equivalent of evidence? Nope, he doesn't.

Simply put: Your $500.000 video equipment isn't worth anything, since it's not medical equipment. If Angley could spontaneously regrow a humerus' head, with proven x-ray photographs "before" and "after", there would be such evidence. What he presents, though, is videos of gripping people and crying "HEEEEEAAAAALLLLLED!!". Very convincing to the average village idiot, but not to someone with even the remotest speck of skepticism.

 

[JohnR7]

@John:
No doubt, but my point is that you posted God wouldn't allow Angley's possible misconduct to be known before telling Angley about it.

That is not what I said. You work overtime trying to twist the truth into a lie.

it seems he doesn't communicate to the catholic priests that way -

I do not know anything about the catholic church, you will need to talk to the catholics about that. I am sure they are more than able to defend the truth, and to defend their faith.

That is no evidence that hasn't already been examined,

I see no evidence, where is your evidence? I will give you our web site again. It is limited, but there is a LOT of evidence there for people with a open heart that are open to receive God's love.

http://www.ernestangley.org/

http://www.ernestangley.org/MirHeal/mirheal.htm

A book I'd recommend to everyone is "Faith Healers" by James Randi & Carl Sagan

Earnest Angley is NOT a Faith Healer, and Carl Sagan is yesterdays soup or flavor of the week. In fact, it is interesting that you should mention Sagan, because he use to be a poster child for science. But that job is not being filled by, guess who? Stephen Hawking's. Would you like to get back to talking about the subject of the thread?

Wrong - Angley explicitly tells people to give the money to him instead of doctors

More lies with no evidence no proof, not even a pretense to try and back up what your saying with anything other than empty, meaningless words. Rev Angley has NOTHING in his name, and he does NOT draw a paycheck. He does NOT have a checking account. Everything, including his humble house belongs to the members of the church.

His treasure is in heaven and he does not touch the gold, that belongs to God. Nor does he touch the honor and the glory, that also belongs to God. We just give a witness and a testimony as to what God is doing. We give hope to those that science has given up on and the people that can receive no help from man. We specialize in people that man has no help for.

So, if you want to continue to give me a platform, to sing the praise, honor and glory of God and tell people that He is still performing miracles and healing today, then lets just go right on with this

 

[JohnR7]

@John: If Angley could spontaneously regrow a humerus' head,

Rev. Angley can just pray for people. God is the one that performs the healings and the miracles.

with proven x-ray photographs "before" and "after", there would be such evidence.

Can you show me a before and an after xray to prove evolution? Chances are I could come up with a xray proof faster and easyer than you. Because God does perform miracles when it comes to healing bones. Even I can show you that in the Bible.

Proverbs 3:7-8
Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil. [8] It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.

 

[Nathan Poe]

http://www.ernestangley.org/MirHeal/mirheal.htm



Earnest Angley is NOT a Faith Healer,

Say what? From the link you provided:

"Do you need a miracle or healing? You can have a miracle; you can have a healing today. Untold multitudes have been healed as they put their hand against mine on the screen.
You can have your deliverance. This is just a point of contact. I am not a healer; Jesus is the Healer. He said a believer would lay hands on the sick and they would get well. I am God's believer, endowed with His precious gifts to bring healing to the people."

(Emphasis mine)

Now, Angley claims that Jesus does the healing, but you have to touch Angley's hand (Through a computer screen, no less!) to do it! Jesus is the healer, but Angley has the "gift." But it's not "healing."

And if you don't have a realplayer installed, don't worry, The power of Christ (through Angley, of course) comes right through the website!

Or you can agree with Reverend Angley as he prays this prayer for you:

"Lord, I bring the sick and afflicted to you today: the cancer victims, the heart patients, those with diabetes and all manner of sicknesses and diseases, the little ones that are afflicted. Heal
in the holy, all-powerful name of Jesus! Heal, in the blood name of Jesus! And we know, Jesus, with your blood stripes they're being healed right now. Heal! Heal, I pray! Amen and amen."
That power went into your body; just watch all improvements daily and get well.
God bless you."

Thanks for the laugh, Johnny, make sure you say 5 "Hail Angley"s before you go to sleep.

 

[Cantuar]

What I'm saying is that if you think the diseases of these two men are somehow related to their spiritual condition,
.................................................................. * *
Maybe you should go back and read some of Nathan's posts. I thought we had this explained by now that the physical is a symbolic representive of the spiritual and does not always indicate personal sin. Have you been keeping up with this post at all?

Maybe YOU should read what I wrote. Where did I say anything about personal sin? Nowhere. I said "spiritual condition." You came back carrying on about how that's all wrong, you actually mean the spiritual. Is there some respect in which the spiritual and the spiritual condition are different?

Also, bear in mind that I was responding to a particular question of yours. If you're now saying that Professor Hawking's condition is explainable statistically, just like any other medical condition, then this whole thing about types and shadows is irrelevant.

You post as if you think Nathan agrees with you. Somehow his posts aren't coming across that way.

 

[Siliconaut]

@John:

That is not what I said. You work overtime trying to twist the truth into a lie.

Not at all: "Also, if you could find an area in his life that God was not a part of, he would know it at the same time you became aware of it, and he would correct it right away." -- posted by you.

Where you got that hypothesis from remains a mistery.

I do not know anything about the catholic church, you will need to talk to the catholics about that. I am sure they are more than able to defend the truth, and to defend their faith.

Well, since the roman catholic church *definitely* traces its traditions back to the Apostles and Jesus, you beg the question how your silly TV cultist would have better communications to the Supreme Being (tm) than the pope. Personally, I think the pope has no more guidance from god - but that's a subjective opinion and entirely beside the point.

I see no evidence, where is your evidence? I will give you our web site again. It is limited, but there is a LOT of evidence there for people with a open heart that are open to receive God's love.

Not to receive anything, but to give money, money, money and - surprise! - money! The evidence for his fraud is all around you - but I already posted a link to a very enlightening book on the subject. Read, re-evaluate, kick Angley's behind (after kicking yourself).

Earnest Angley is NOT a Faith Healer, and Carl Sagan is yesterdays soup or flavor of the week. In fact, it is interesting that you should mention Sagan, because he use to be a poster child for science. But that job is not being filled by, guess who? Stephen Hawking's. Would you like to get back to talking about the subject of the thread?

YOU'RE RIGHT! Angley is NOT a faith healer, but a horrible fraud, sharlatan, moneygrabber, you name it, he's bamboozled it.

I don't know why you have taken a liking to the term "poster child", when, in fact, there is no such person in science. If Hawkings or Sagan had postulated ridiculous theories without evidence, they would have been torn to shreds politely. You try to personalize science, when in fact science is the most unbiased, unpersonal tool of knowledge available to mankind - but then, that's no new strawman from you.

More lies with no evidence no proof, not even a pretense to try and back up what your saying with anything other than empty, meaningless words.

Read the bloody article - there is one verbatim quote of him saying so. At least this tells me you didn't read it - and why should you? After all, the victims of any bamboozle will rather continue to live the lie than to stand up to the painful truth that they've been lied to.

Rev Angley has NOTHING in his name, and he does NOT draw a paycheck. He does NOT have a checking account. Everything, including his humble house belongs to the members of the church.

How naive can a person be? While I severely doubt he hasn't stored away a couple of millions in swiss bank accounts, this is the most common form of avoiding confiscation used by fraudsters all over the world. Husband makes millions defrauding people, signs it over to wife, lives in a splendid house, drives luxury cars and yet has *zilch* to his name. Same with Angley - and it also spares him the burden of paying income tax, so he can buy another condo. 8)

We specialize in people that man has no help for.

Nope, judging by your cult's message, you specialize in telling people there's no hope for them unless they sign huge checks to Angley. Business going well? Too bad for humanity.

So, if you want to continue to give me a platform, to sing the praise, honor and glory of God and tell people that He is still performing miracles and healing today, then lets just go right on with this

You mean a platform to make christianity look ridiculous and cheap, driving people away from religion? Splendid job, old chap!

Rev. Angley can just pray for people. God is the one that performs the healings and the miracles.

Unfortunately, not one case has been proven for your cult. That means god must be busy elsewhere, so as not to be associated with people who give him a bad name... *fg*

Can you show me a before and an after xray to prove evolution? Chances are I could come up with a xray proof faster and easyer than you. Because God does perform miracles when it comes to healing bones. Even I can show you that in the Bible.

Ah, I see you've been forgetting the dried frog pills again - you can just go round to a paleontologist and ask for x-rays of a fossil chain. There you are. Now give me a humerus head! *gg*

BTW: Your proverb seems to be targeted especially at you, perhaps you should read it again without the reality blockers on.

 

[JohnR7]

Thanks for the laugh, Johnny, make sure you say 5 "Hail Angley"s before you go to sleep.

It does not matter if you personally like Rev. Angley or not. God is still performing miracles and people are still being healed today. We see a lot of miracles and healing in every service, esp. in our Friday night healing service. We have video of the miracles, the blind see, the deaf hear, the lamb walk and so forth. So the evidence is there.

Perhaps you would like to present your evidence to show why you do not believe that God is still healing people and performing miracles today.

Someone else God is using in a great way is the Trio: Tom, Lisa and Valeri. When they sing and people enter into the presense of God then God moves in a powerful way and people are healed and delivered. The annointing is over the whole ministry, and a lot of people make a lot of sacrifices in order to help others to receive what God wants and has for them. I can assure you, they are not in it for the gold. Becasue any one of them could make considerably more money if they were to get a secular job outside of the ministry. Their treasure is in Heaven, and that is where their heart is. They want to do all they can, to help as many people as they are able to help.

Or what about the miracles we see in our sunday school department. The people there also sacrifice and work hard to help others. They are required to take three collage level courses to qualify to be sunday school teachers. That is only offered at the Bible collage once a year in the fall, so that takes three years.

More and more people are being required to take the training classes if they want to serve in the ministry. If they want to go on the mission field or if they want to be alter workers and so forth. It takes about six weeks of preperation if they want to go on a two week mission trip to Africa.

It would be nice if we were back in the days when he use to take up to 600 people on his tours. To Hawaii, or Jerusalem or other places. But those days are gone. Rev. Angley is into his 80's now and he wants to make the most out of what time he has left to serve God.

 

[JohnR7]

How naive can a person be? While I severely doubt he hasn't stored away a couple of millions in swiss bank accounts, this is the most common form of avoiding confiscation used by fraudsters all over the world. Husband makes millions defrauding people, signs it over to wife, lives in a splendid house, drives luxury cars and yet has *zilch* to his name. Same with Angley - and it also spares him the burden of paying income tax, so he can buy another condo. 8)

His wife went home to be with the Lord years ago. They never had any kids. There is no one for him to leave any money to. It is all in the name of the ministry. So everything belongs to the members of the church. He does not take vaccations. He is the first one there in the morning and the last one to leave at night. Then he goes straight home where he prepares his next sermon or works on writting the next book for publication. In addition to the church, the world wide ministry, he also has a TV station he runs and a buffet resturant.

So, now that we know he is not in it for the money, perhaps you would like to consider that maybe the Love of God is in him and he just wants to help as many people as he can.

Also, what about all the hundreds of other people that work in the ministry who could be making more money out in the secular world? Are you willing to accept that the love of God is in them and that they also just want to serve God and help as many people as they can?

You tend to see things from your perspective, and that is why you seem to be blinded to the truth here. You can not seem to grasp the concept that maybe God really has changed lives and changed people so that we are not motivated by the things of the world and the things that unregenerated people are motivated by.

 

[Nathan Poe]

It does not matter if you personally like Rev. Angley or not. God is still performing miracles and people are still being healed today. We see a lot of miracles and healing in every service, esp. in our Friday night healing service. We have video of the miracles, the blind see, the deaf hear, the lamb walk and so forth. So the evidence is there.

You're right about one thing: It doesn't matter if I personally like Angley or not.

And I've seen plenty of videos of the "blind" seeing, the "deaf" hearing, and the "lame" walking. What I haven't seen are these people before Angly or another like him "cures" them.

Miraculous healing would require the power of God. Faking it would not.

Perhaps you would like to present your evidence to show why you do not believe that God is still healing people and performing miracles today.

Perhaps you would like to present evidence that I do not have a horde of flesh-eating leprechauns in my hall closet.

You can't, can you? Of course not, and you shouldn't have to. If I make the extrordinary claim, I should provide the evidence to back it up.

You claim that "God still performs micalces today." First of all, that would mean that God performed miracles in the past, but I can't find anything besides the Bible which says that.

And what exactly are the criteria for a "miracle?" How would we know the difference between a miralce and just really, really good luck?

Someone else God is using in a great way is the Trio: Tom, Lisa and Valeri. When they sing and people enter into the presense of God then God moves in a powerful way and people are healed and delivered.

So your cult has a musical act. Do they have an album out?

The annointing is over the whole ministry, and a lot of people make a lot of sacrifices in order to help others to receive what God wants and has for them. I can assure you, they are not in it for the gold.

Not all con artists are in it for the money. They seem to have your hero worship, that's pretty good.

And where exactly did Angley get that $500,000 worth of video equipment you keep praising? Working at the 7-11?

Becasue any one of them could make considerably more money if they were to get a secular job outside of the ministry. Their treasure is in Heaven, and that is where their heart is. They want to do all they can, to help as many people as they are able to help.

Not so. History has shown religion has always been the best racket around.

Or what about the miracles we see in our sunday school department. The people there also sacrifice and work hard to help others. They are required to take three collage level courses to qualify to be sunday school teachers. That is only offered at the Bible collage once a year in the fall, so that takes three years.

What miracles?

More and more people are being required to take the training classes if they want to serve in the ministry. If they want to go on the mission field or if they want to be alter workers and so forth. It takes about six weeks of preperation if they want to go on a two week mission trip to Africa.

It would be nice if we were back in the days when he use to take up to 600 people on his tours. To Hawaii, or Jerusalem or other places. But those days are gone. Rev. Angley is into his 80's now and he wants to make the most out of what time he has left to serve God.

At this point we've taken the left turn out of the topic and entered Non-Sequitor land. Please keep your hands and feet inside until the thread comes to a complete stop.

When did you become an advertisment for Angley?

 

[JohnR7]

Miraculous healing would require the power of God. Faking it would not.

Yes, it would take the miracle power of God. It is easy enough to see who God is using. Just read your Bible, God uses people who are Holy, Sanctified, Consecrated and Set apart for every good work. The requirements to be used by God have not changed. Actually, we can all find ourselves in the Bible somewhere. Maybe you are like Nathan in the Bible, sense he was there to reprove David on account of his sin with Bathsheba. That sort of sounds like something you would take pleasure in doing.

Perhaps you would like to present evidence that I do not have a horde of flesh-eating leprechauns in my hall closet.

By all means, show us your video. I hope that there are no copy right infringements on it though.

You claim that "God still performs micalces today." First of all, that would mean that God performed miracles in the past, but I can't find anything besides the Bible which says that.

You do not see miracles in the Bible? Well, blow the dust off of it, open it up and look. There are lots of miracles in there.

And what exactly are the criteria for a "miracle?" How would we know the difference between a miralce and just really, really good luck?

It is all in the Bible, you should read it every now and then. But for a skeptic like you, I am sure if you wanted to, you could find a way to explain the miracles away. It does take faith to please God. You would say they were never sick in the first place. Or one the doctors like to use is spontaneous remission. Or maybe you would say they just got better all on their own and God was not a part of it.

So your cult has a musical act. Do they have an album out?

Cult? Do you say things like that just so people can think of you as a unlikeable sort of person? We do have a lot of music on tape. They sell for $5 just like all the other tapes. The money is used for missions. To pay for the tapes for the people in third world nations that can not afford to buy them for themselves. Also we are going to be producing videos and that will be made available for the mission field.

Our plan is to bring missionarys over from third world nations, put them though Bible collage, then send them back with the tools they need to get the job done. So they will have tapes and videos to help them to get the good news of Jesus out to the world.

And where exactly did Angley get that $500,000 worth of video equipment you keep praising? Working at the 7-11?

No problem, he just told the church he needed it and the pledged it. I have seen him take up a offering and get up to a million dollars worth of pledges in about twenty min. of time. That was when he first announced that the weekly program was going to be broadcast world wide. Money is really not a problem, God provides for us all we need. The problem is in the heart of man and what we want to see is changed lives.

History has shown religion has always been the best racket around.

Not where we go, because the people have no money there. If we were after the money, then we would go to the citys and the nations where people had money. If you need money are you going to pack up 100 people and take them to a country where half the people there are dieing from aids? You would be a lot better off to go to a country where people at least had enough money to help cover your expenses.

What miracles?

Bible miracles, the deaf hear, the lame walk, the blind see, the poor have the gospel preached to them. Just like in the Bible.

When did you become an advertisment for Angley?

I am not sure how we got started on this topic. But if you want to keep attacking the ministry then I will keep right on defending it. Because I have seen the miracles and the healing. I know that God is changing lives today. People are being rescued, saved, healed and delivered. Every friday night at the healing service you can see people receive their miracle or healing from God.

Of course I know you. Even if you attended a service, even if you saw the miracles and the healing, you would just say: So what I did not get healed and then you would find something to be critical of. Perhaps your attitude would be, it's real nice God is doing something for them, but what is God going to do for me. We hear lots of people complain because they have been a christian for sooo much longer and they have attended the ministry for sooo much longer. Then they get mad at God because He heals these new people who show up for the first time, but they can not seem to get what they want from God.

So you see Nathan, even if you were to know that the miracles and the healing were for real. That does not mean that your life will be changed, or that God will touch your heart. You could just go right on being a skeptic, even if you knew the power of God was real.