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Featured Stealthing

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Open Heart, Apr 30, 2017.

  1. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

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    The purpose of the OP was to garnish answers to my question about how to handle it.
     
  2. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    It would be a mistake to presume that the cause and cure for this particular form of sexually exploiting women is actually any different from other forms of sexually exploiting women.

    To be honest, I'm not sure why young men are in that place. They don't have the sensibilities I was raised with in regard to how women should be treated by men who are real men.

    I mean, after all, there has been an entire generation of "gender sensitivity training" given in schools--the young men you're talking about is the generation that from the cradle have been given the third-wave feminist-prescribed education in "personhood" rather than "manhood."

    All the old rules I was taught about chivalry and gentlemanly manners were deemed outmoded and inappropriate--"the only difference between males and females is the plumbing."

    In fact, the generation you're complaining about has a higher percentage of men directly raised only by women than any other generation.

    So it's rather up to women to answer "what went wrong?"
     
  3. Paidiske

    Paidiske Bodily member Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    Asking "what went wrong?" suggests that things are worse for women now than they used to be. I think that's a flawed premise.

    I don't think it's a form of rape, exactly, but I do think it could perhaps be defined as some sort of assault (just as other types of actions involving the body without consent are assault), and treated as such by the law.
     
  4. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    As an older man, I certainly don't have the same level of social support to cuff a young man (physically or otherwise) to tell him it's wrong to treat a woman that way. If you wanted men to behave better, the answer was not to demolish chivalry, but to demand that it be strengthened and enlarged.

    "Treated as such by the law" is not the fundamental answer to interpersonal relationships. That's only going to lead to continual attempts like this one to invent ways of doing evil that aren't covered by the law.
     
  5. RedPonyDriver

    RedPonyDriver Professional Pot Stirrer

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    its never occurred to you to think this can also happen WITHIN marriage? Thank God I'm infertile and in a long term monogamous relationship. If some man did that to me, husband or not...well...anyway...it wouldn't be pretty.
     
  6. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

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    It's complicated, but the two biggest factors are:
    1. Lack of fathers in the home.
    2. A generation that is narcissistic to the point that it overwhelms all other teaching.
     
  7. Daniel Marsh

    Daniel Marsh Well-Known Member

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    It is a crime in Ireland and the UK. It is time for the US and rest of the world to catch up too.

    "The Criminal Prosecution Service in the UK, defines consent - which is the marker of whether sex is rape or consensual - under section 74 of the ‘Sexual Offences Act 2003’, as requiring the participants to be “in a position to make that choice freely” and moreover “the crucial question is whether the complainant agrees to the activity by choice”. "
    Stealthing: What You Need To Know About This Illegal New Sex Practice | The Huffington Post

    'Rape-Adjacent': Imagining Legal Responses to Nonconsensual Condom Removal
    Columbia Journal of Gender and Law, Vol. 32, No. 2, 2017
    'Rape-Adjacent': Imagining Legal Responses to Nonconsensual Condom Removal by Alexandra Brodsky :: SSRN

    Stealthing: What You Need To Know About This Illegal New Sex Practice | The Huffington Post
     
  8. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    But if women were the same as men except for the plumbing, how could lack of fathers matter?

    The problem of disrespecting women isn't confined to the Millinnial generation (and the "narcissism" of Millennials is a misunderstood social phenomenon--what people call "narcissism" is actually social media communalism).

    BTW, I know of a couple of cases where women claimed to be on birth control and weren't specifically to get pregnant when their boyfriends didn't want children. And I'm currently warning a nephew he'd better handle the birthcontrol himself, because his live-in girlfriend (who says "we'll always be together" but turns him down from actual marriage) looks to be following that same path.
     
  9. Paidiske

    Paidiske Bodily member Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    I don't know if it's lack of fathers so much as domestic instability?

    Even so, I'm still not buying the line that we're worse off. If domestic instability is the price we pay for safety, well...
     
  10. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    Just for the sake of discussion, the only people I've ever heard of poking holes in condoms were women wanting to get pregnant, sometimes to "trap" a guy with money. This type of deception during otherwise consensual sex, whether men removing condoms or women poking holes in them or lying about being on the pill, has been going on for decades.

    Is it rape? Of course not. Is it abhorrent? Absolutely. How do we stop it? Well, try not fornicating.

    Welcome to the consequences of sin.
     
  11. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

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    Is anyone in this thread making this claim? I certainly am not.
     
  12. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

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    Sin certainly isn't confined to a single gender.
     
  13. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

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    Glad to hear it's a crime for you all. I think that SOME district attorneys may try to prosecute under existing laws, but the juries could go either way. We do need to make our laws explicit.
     
  14. Basil the Great

    Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is news to me. I must say, Open Heart, you post some of the most interesting and informative posts.
     
  15. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

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    I'm one of those people that I would literally die of boredom if I didn't keep my mind active. I have all sorts of filters on google news designed to get me interesting stuff, ethics, science, health, israel, religion, you name it. I even have a filter for chimpanzees. Did you know they've been seen using spears for hunting? But only the females!

    Anyhow, as an INFJ, my personality functions around ethical thinking, so any time I run into some sort of new ethical problem it's a big deal for me. Stealthing was one such problem. I came across it AGAIN on a Law and Order re-run the other day. The perp was called a "reproductive abuser." He had fathered over 40 children by poking holes in condoms so that they would break when he used them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  16. Basil the Great

    Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No, your chimpanzee news is one that I have not heard of previously. By the way, you have given me an idea. I believe that it is time to update my Google alerts, so I can keep up with some of my favorite topics of interest. Thanks much....
     
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