Stars science say kicked out of galaxy actually coming in!

DogmaHunter

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Competing explanation is that The universe is set in motion and controlled by God, with good reasons for things.

That's a claim, not an explanation.
A claim, that is not in evidence and which can only be believed on faith.
Much like (well... rather exactly like) the claims of any other religion. Or con-artist. Or astrologer. Or tarrot card reader. Or....

We clear?

What your (non-existing) level of understanding is concerning science (and religion, for that matter), has been clear for quite some time now, don't worry.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Look you do not even know what a star is. Your idea of what stars are and where they came from is bad religion.

"bad religion"

One of my favorite punk rock bands!
One of my favorite bands, full stop, actually.

Awesome guys. Saw them live couple years ago. One of the best gigs I've ever seen.
 
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dad

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Correct.
Instead, they jump to the tune of gravity.
There is some sort of gravity involved, I think we can say that. The fact that it is working on objects of unknown size and distance neuters your point though, of course.
 
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dad

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That's a claim, not an explanation.
Your inability to know how He did it, and the invented alternative creation stories are claims!
A claim, that is not in evidence and which can only be believed on faith.
Great definition of origin sciences.
 
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dad

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He just explained to you how they weren't wrong at all.
Actually in saying this

".. It is reasonable that stars from other galaxies would also be ejected and could arrive here.."

He ignore the OP article saying this

""A team of astronomers using the latest set of data from ESA's Gaia mission to look for high-velocity stars being kicked out of the Milky Way were surprised to find stars instead sprinting inwards..""

So one year they are teaching people that stars in a certain area are being kicked out of the galaxy. Some other year they switch the story to 'well, actually they are coming IN'.

I guess they think they can reserve the right to be correct even when the opposite of what they claim is true! Your redfining of the words wrong or right does not change the direction stars are actually going.
 
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dad

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"bad religion"

One of my favorite punk rock bands!
Ha.


One of my favorite bands, full stop, actually.
Lurkers, I have pointed out that the defenders of false origin science seem to tend to have an antichristian attitude. Here is a pic of this poster's favorite band

375px-Bad_Religion_-_2018154162111_2018-06-03_Rock_am_Ring_-_5DS_R_-_0059_-_5DSR6379.jpg
 
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DogmaHunter

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There is some sort of gravity involved

"some sort"?
There are different "types" of gravity? :-D

The fact that it is working on objects of unknown size and distance neuters your point though, of course.

Whatever makes you sleep at night.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Your inability to know how He did it

Assuming he did. And that there's a "he" who did anything in the first place.

, and the invented alternative creation stories are claims!

Creation stories are faith based claims.
Scientific theories are well-tested, usefull bodies of knowledge that actually explain things.
Yes, they are claims. Claims that are supported by evidence. Claims derived from the facts of reality. Not claims supported by "faith" and derived from "dreams" and "visions" and "revelations" etc... untestable, unverifiable and unfalsifiable. Indistinguishable from imagination, hallucination, etc.


I'll go with the evidence based methodology, any day of the week.
So do you, eventhough you like to claim the opposite.
In actual reality, you trust science more then your god as well.

That's why you type your replies to me knowing they'll show up on my screen when I log in, instead of just praying to God to communicate your replies to me telepathically.

Great definition of origin sciences.

Saying things like this, is why nobody takes you seriously.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Lurkers, I have pointed out that the defenders of false origin science seem to tend to have an antichristian attitude. Here is a pic of this poster's favorite band

375px-Bad_Religion_-_2018154162111_2018-06-03_Rock_am_Ring_-_5DS_R_-_0059_-_5DSR6379.jpg

The band is called Bad Religion. Did you think they were going to be friendly towards religion?
Obviously they oppose religion in all its forms. A cross is pretty symbolic for religion, especially when you belong to judeo-christian culture.

That symbol is the logo of the band. It shows up on all their records and merchandise.
And my T-shirts during my rebelious years, lol
 
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dad

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"some sort"?
There are different "types" of gravity? :-D
Good question and the answer of course is 'how would we know, we have never been out of the fishbowl'

But even if gravity was uniform through the universe the problem for you would be that you have no sizes or distances to gauge how much gravity is involved. For example, we see that things orbit on an atomic level, and also that small objects have gravity in space such as asteroids etc. If you have no idea about actual distances or sizes I suspect that puts a damper on what you can tell us about the nature and exact degree of gravity that may be at work there?
 
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dad

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Assuming he did. And that there's a "he" who did anything in the first place.
I guess we could say the same about your favorite band, bad religion. Is there any 'he' in there? Can you prove that the instruments used 10 years ago at a concert? Can you prove that the 'Recipe for Hate' tour of your beloved band happened?




Creation stories are faith based claims.
Scientific theories are well-tested, usefull bodies of knowledge that actually explain things.
Show us the test for what time is like in the far universe? You have none and obviously there is no usefulness or real explanations involved. Just bad religion.

Yes, they are claims. Claims that are supported by evidence. Claims derived from the facts of reality. Not claims supported by "faith" and derived from "dreams" and "visions" and "revelations" etc... untestable, unverifiable and unfalsifiable. Indistinguishable from imagination, hallucination, etc.

Ever tested the claimed first lifeform or BB singularity? No. Try to learn the meaning or words better. There is a difference between invention and evidence!

I'll go with the evidence based methodology, any day of the week.
So do you, eventhough you like to claim the opposite.
In actual reality, you trust science more then your god as well.

The bible IS evidence based methodology! It was methodically given by God, methodically preserved by the state of Israel, methodically shown to be true in content and prophesies, and methodically proven real and true in untold billions of real people's real lives in real history.

I do not trust origin science fable methodology in the least way! That is shown to be fabricated rebellious extreme nonsense that is demonstrably proven wrong time after time. Yet they scramble methodically to patch up their fallen tales that get busted or invent ones harder to bust. Total la la land bad religion.
That's why you type your replies to me knowing they'll show up on my screen when I log in, instead of just praying to God to communicate your replies to me telepathically.
Paaalleeeese, not another methodical attempt to associate fable producing origin fantasy so called science with actual knowledge that is real!!!?
Been awhile but I have to give you one of these...Gong!
 
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dad

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The band is called Bad Religion. Did you think they were going to be friendly towards religion?
Obviously they oppose religion in all its forms. A cross is pretty symbolic for religion, especially when you belong to judeo-christian culture.

That symbol is the logo of the band. It shows up on all their records and merchandise.
And my T-shirts during my rebelious years, lol
My condolences.
 
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DogmaHunter

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I guess we could say the same about your favorite band, bad religion

No, that band is demonstrably real.


Can you prove that the instruments used 10 years ago at a concert?

Can I prove, what now?

Can you prove that the 'Recipe for Hate' tour of your beloved band happened?

Yes.

There's video footage, ticket sales, contract records of the venue, of the band, of the other bands that joined them on tour, there's independent contemporary corroborating evidence of all sorts.

Show us the test for what time is like in the far universe?

It makes predictions about observation of things like what Hubble should and shouldn't see and what you can and can't see through your telescope, to name just 2 examples.


You have none and obviously there is no usefulness or real explanations involved. Just bad religion.

No.

Ever tested the claimed first lifeform or BB singularity? No.

Honest science doesn't pretend to have conclusive answers to origins of the universe or of life.

Try to learn the meaning or words better

Try to be a bit intellectually honest.
Just a little, would already go a long way.

There is a difference between invention and evidence!

There's also a difference between hypothesis and theory.


The bible IS evidence based methodology! It was methodically given by God, methodically preserved by the state of Israel, methodically shown to be true in content and prophesies, and methodically proven real and true in untold billions of real people's real lives in real history.

I do not trust origin science fable methodology in the least way! That is shown to be fabricated rebellious extreme nonsense that is demonstrably proven wrong time after time. Yet they scramble methodically to patch up their fallen tales that get busted or invent ones harder to bust. Total la la land bad religion.

Whatever makes you sleep at night.
Meanwhile, when you are sick and need surgery, you are very happy to have "godless medical science" save your life, instead of just "praying" yourself back to good health. Because deep down, you know that science works while prayer doesn't.


Paaalleeeese, not another methodical attempt to associate fable producing origin fantasy so called science with actual knowledge that is real!!!?
Been awhile but I have to give you one of these...Gong!

There's more to science then just the question of origins.

But off course, you'ld have to be intellectually honest to acknowledge that.
 
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dad

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No, that band is demonstrably real.

So was Jesus to John.

1Jo 1:1 - That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;


Can I prove, what now?
Can you prove the lead singer's first milk came from a glass bottle? If not, then why would I believe he was ever a real baby, or had a mom? You seem to question people long ago on the basis of us no longer having hard evidence. Goose...meet gander.

Yes.

There's video footage, ticket sales, contract records of the venue, of the band, of the other bands that joined them on tour, there's independent contemporary corroborating evidence of all sorts.
OK, if they had played in Jesus day would you expect such evidences? The highest records they had were Scripture, and the sacred preserved writings of the followers/witnesses/friends/relatives etc etc To expect more is foolish.

It makes predictions about observation of things like what Hubble should and shouldn't see and what you can and can't see through your telescope, to name just 2 examples.
Wrong. It defines what we see and would expect to see in terms of a belief system as to what it all means! If we see an object orbit something else, they might slot it into being maybe a dust ring that will one day produce protoplanets bah blah. When they see what they do not expect (as is often the case) they simply tweak the belief system to accomodate this as part of it, and puff up their chests as if they are discovering new things about how the universe came to be!


Honest science doesn't pretend to have conclusive answers to origins of the universe or of life.
False. They preach incessantly about how we have common ancestors, and claim, for example a flatworm is one of the oldest creatures we share an ancestor with!!!


"

Flatworms Are Oldest Living Ancestors To Those Of Us With Right And Left Sides..."

Flatworms Are Oldest Living Ancestors To Those Of Us With Right And Left Sides, Researchers Report In Science

Ha ha ha.

There's also a difference between hypothesis and theory.

There is a difference between fable and fact also.

Whatever makes you sleep at night.
Meanwhile, when you are sick and need surgery, you are very happy to have "godless medical science" save your life, instead of just "praying" yourself back to good health. Because deep down, you know that science works while prayer doesn't.
Can you tell us what medical science has to do with origin false sciences??

There's more to science then just the question of origins.
Origins actually is outside the range and world and scope of science altogether.
 
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dad

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Repeating ignorance about Doppler shift which has no distance in it. Try reading the science. Try asking around about Doppler shift. Try listening to a car horn's sound as it passes you (this is the Doppler shift for sound). Try learning how Doppler radar (as in radar guns - speed cops do not run tape measures out to moving cars!) works.
Your car orn is on earth, you do realize this? What goes on in your car, therefore, MUST be the same in all the universe...because..?? Ha.
 
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For lurkers ...
Misleading lurkers with an obvious "circular reasoning" lie when it is the cosmic distance ladder, dad.

The science for lurkers:
This is the cosmic distance ladder and its linear reasoning truth.
Rung 1: We use parallax to measure the distance to stars inside this galaxy . Some of these stars are standard candles (Cepheid variable stars).
Rung 2: Those standard candles are then used to measure distances to other galaxies. Some of these galaxies contain standard candles such as Type 1a supernova.
Rung 3: Those standard candles allow the measurement of distances to more distant galaxies.
Each rung builds on the previous rung. We do not use Cepheid variable stars to do parallax measurements. We do not use Type 1a supernova to measure the distances to Cepheid variable stars or do parallax measurements. Thus "circular reasoning" is an obvious lie.

This is a basic list - there are up to 26 "rungs": The ABC's of Distances.

Edwin Hubble famously used Cepheid variable stars to measure the distance to galaxies and measured their redshift. That gave the Hubble–Lemaître law. Add 80 years of measurements and there is an enormous body of evidence that this law is correct. Thus it is a convention in astronomy to write the distances to galaxies as redshifts using the symbol z.

How is it possible to measure astronomical distances using the Doppler effect when the speed of light is always constant, regardless of the source and the observers motion?
The Doppler effect is not used to measure astronomical distances. It is used to measure the velocity of the source. And yes, the speed of light is constant, but if a source is receding from us, the frequency of its light will be shifted downwards (redshift). When this shift is measured, the velocity of the source can be calculated.

The distance to the source is then inferred from Hubble's law, which relates distances to recession velocity. But in order to confirm the validity of Hubble's law, the distance must be measured by some means not related to velocity. This can be done by observing sources that are "standard candles", astronomical sources whose intrinsic brightness is known; comparing intrinsic brightness to observed brightness can be used to calculate distance. Such standard candles include Type Ia supernovae, which were used not only to confirm Hubble's law but also to conclude that the rate of expansion of the universe has been accelerating for the past several billion years.
 
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Actually in saying this

".. It is reasonable that stars from other galaxies would also be ejected and could arrive here.."

He ignore the OP article saying this
That is ignorance about astronomy, dad.
In 1 year astronomers are teaching people that the Milky Way ejects stars. Astronomers and reasonable people conclude that all galaxies eject stars because they know that the Milky Way is not a extra special galaxy. Thus reasonable people expect stars to arrive in the Milky Way. This reasonable expectation has been confirmed by the observation of stars entering the Milky Way :doh:!

Gaia spots stars flying between galaxies is a surprise that looking for the outgoing stars in the massive Gaia survey found incoming stars.
 
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