Starbucks' plain red holiday cups stir up controversy

[bhsmte]

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Well done!!!!

 

[Open Heart]

And you honestly think Starbucks is part of this conspiracy?

Starbucks is halfway into this. The fact that the cups are red and green is a half hearted acknowledgment of Christmas. The colors can be interpreted EITHER WAY, as either the colors of Christmas OR as neutral colors, (i.e. I simply got a red cup).

 

[keith99]

I parsed this as, "The owner is Jewish, but to many Christians in the U.S., he might as well be an atheist (or Muslim, as you call atheists)."

It tickled me.

Well some have short attention spans and have never gotten to the second like of the Muslim confession of Faith so all they know is the first line, actually it is worse than that, they never got to the end of the first line:

There is no God

Is all they heard. If they had listened longer they would have heard:

But Allah
and Mohammad is his prophet.

 

[Ringo84]

You are the one making an excuse. The holiday, it doesn't matter if it's the Germanic Odin or fig trees- the fact is that it is ALL fundamentally a Christian holiday. Our whole history dictates that, to call it something else is being desperate.

This was pages and pages ago, but the only reason snowflakes and fir trees are a part of Christmas now is that Christianity co-opted those symbols from "pagan" holidays. They have nothing to do with the birth of Jesus.

I also think it's highly ironic that some of the same people who (rightly) complain about Christmas becoming too commercial are the same ones encouraging that commercialism by getting mad at Starbucks for not having the correct commercial symbols on their coffee cups.

 

[Open Heart]

This was pages and pages ago, but the only reason snowflakes and fir trees are a part of Christmas now is that Christianity co-opted those symbols from "pagan" holidays. They have nothing to do with the birth of Jesus.

They have to do with WINTER, which is WHEN we celebrate the Nativity. Yes, the church has co-opted pagan stuff; they WERE pagan, and now they are sanctified Christian.

 

[Ringo84]

They have to do with WINTER, which is WHEN we celebrate the Nativity.

OK...and the Easter bunny has to do with WHEN we celebrate Easter. Are we going to say that is a Christian symbol that businesses must emblazon on their merchandise so as not to offend super sensitive Christians?

In other words, you're so obsessed with symbols that you're wasting a part of the year that's supposed to be about the birth of Jesus to whine about Starbucks. You're missing the forest for the trees.

Why are you so worried about how other people celebrate this holiday?

 

[Grizzly]

They have to do with WINTER, which is WHEN we celebrate the Nativity. Yes, the church has co-opted pagan stuff; they WERE pagan, and now they are sanctified Christian.

Yes, but why is the birth of Jesus celebrated in the winter? The bible is silent on what time of year Jesus was born.

 

[keith99]

Yes, but why is the birth of Jesus celebrated in the winter? The bible is silent on what time of year Jesus was born.

Actually it is not, it mentions a few season specific facts. They indicate it was not winter.

 

[Grizzly]

Actually it is not, it mentions a few season specific facts. They indicate it was not winter.

Interesting.

 

[Open Heart]

Yes, but why is the birth of Jesus celebrated in the winter? The bible is silent on what time of year Jesus was born.

No matter what day they had chosen, you could hae asked the same question.

 

[Willtor]

Actually it is not, it mentions a few season specific facts. They indicate it was not winter.

This. The time of Christmas was chosen to compete with pagan winter festivals.

All of this obsession with snowflakes on coffee cups is mind-boggling to me.

 

[bhsmte]

They have to do with WINTER, which is WHEN we celebrate the Nativity. Yes, the church has co-opted pagan stuff; they WERE pagan, and now they are sanctified Christian.

You don't really need Starbucks to have a certain design on their cup, to celebrate Christmas, do you?

 

[DaisyDay]

They have to do with WINTER, which is WHEN we celebrate the Nativity. Yes, the church has co-opted pagan stuff; they WERE pagan, and now they are sanctified Christian.

Snowflakes and reindeer are not sanctified or Christian.

 

[Open Heart]

This. The time of Christmas was chosen to compete with pagan winter festivals.

Of course. It's kind of like the Christians who are so down on Halloween having "Harvest Festivals" at their churches to kind of tempt folks away from trick or treating. I think the choice for the time of the feast of the nativity was so that there would be a Christian option at the time of the year when there was so much pagan stuff going on. That way pagan converts who would be pining for their old festivals could have something wholesome for replacement.

 

[Open Heart]

You don't really need Starbucks to have a certain design on their cup, to celebrate Christmas, do you?

As an individual, no. As a community, yes.

 

[Open Heart]

Snowflakes and reindeer are not sanctified or Christian.

They are the secular counterpart for what is essentially a very Christian holiday.

 

[DaisyDay]

They are the secular counterpart for what is essentially a very Christian holiday.

Isn't "secular counterpart" the opposite of "sanctified Christian"?

 

[Open Heart]

Isn't "secular counterpart" the opposite of "sanctified Christian"?

No. It is connected to the religious holiday for Christians. The fact that non-Christians use it is irrelevant.

 

[DaisyDay]

No. It is connected to the religious holiday for Christians. The fact that non-Christians use it is irrelevant.

The meaning of "secular" is pretty much the opposite of the meaning of "sanctified".

 

[Open Heart]

The meaning of "secular" is pretty much the opposite of the meaning of "sanctified".

I *do* understand what you are saying, and 90% of the time you are correct. However, I am using the word secular because these are things which secular folks use, even though they are connected with the religious holiday. Personally, I have no problems with people celebrating Christmas to the extent they feel they can, although I feel saddened when they miss out on the fullness of the Nativity.