Star Wars OR Star Trek?

[NolaB123]

I watched the first Star Trek when it came out with the funny paper mache monsters . My friend & I watch sci fi every Friday fortnight. When Data died we put on our uniforms and had a wake for him with treats and Star Trek trivia questions. But I also like Star Wars/Babylon 5/Stargate etc. Dont like the current ST Discovery though - to PC and to dark for my liking.

 

[RageOfAngels]

The Last Jedi is still awful.

There, I said it!

 

[thecolorsblend]

Well personally I'm a Star Wars person. Our entire family has grown up with it! Hee hee. So here's the big question "Star Wars Or Star Trek?" If you want to put why, that would be super too. (also my favorite dude, and movie is : The forth one (So the first one that came out) and then the Storm Troopers!)

C-3P0 rocks my socks too

I used to say Star Wars. Then I said Star Trek.

But now both of them are lost in a sea of strange brew political agendas. So it's Lord Of The Rings/Tolkien Legendarium for me these days.

 

[durangodawood]

I used to say Star Wars. Then I said Star Trek.

But now both of them are lost in a sea of strange brew political agendas. So it's Lord Of The Rings/Tolkien Legendarium for me these days.

Political agendas like having women in hero roles of power?

 

[Mr.bumblebee]

I think the literature for both are worth reading.. predisney that is, post disney has yet to do more than be unnecessarily political.

 

[RDKirk]

Political agendas like having women in hero roles of power?

That in itself is not a problem, as witnessed by the Star Wars animations (Clone Wars and Rebels). The reason, though, that the Star Wars animations were not popular with the SJW crowd despite very smart and strong women is that the men were still smart and strong along with them.

 

[RageOfAngels]

Having women as heroes is great if it's done for a good story, not as an agenda. Agendas tend to destroy a fan base (bit like The Last Jedi did).

 

[RDKirk]

That in itself is not a problem, as witnessed by the Star Wars animations (Clone Wars and Rebels). The reason, though, that the Star Wars animations were not popular with the SJW crowd despite very smart and strong women is that the men were still smart and strong along with them.

To point out how off-base SJWs can be, for instance:

In Star Wars: Rebels, the female character Hera Syndulla is the leader of the group. She's presented as tough, smart, and actually the boss of a Jedi and his apprentice. In Rogue One (which takes place after the events of Rebels), we discover that she's been promoted to general.

In one episode of Rebels, she is drugged by an enemy and behaves silly and uncoordinated for a short time (which had also happened to male characters more than once).

And the series has several other strong females, including a strong female villain as well as one of the toughest, strongest (and most popular) Force-users of the Star Wars canon (who held her own in combat against Darth Vader)...a woman.

But for that one sequence, SJWs came down on the entire series like a ton of bricks, ignoring everything else.

 

[Mr.bumblebee]

There is a difference between female heroes and what Disney has been trying to do. I'm not sure how to describe it other than it feels like they are forcing it, rather than develop it and the result comes off silly. I have enjoyed rebels, except when they forget how to write plots.

 

[RDKirk]

There is a difference between female heroes and what Disney has been trying to do. I'm not sure how to describe it other than it feels like they are forcing it, rather than develop it and the result comes off silly. I have enjoyed rebels, except when they forget how to write plots.

That would be two things. One is the "Mary Sue" issue, where the female heroine comes onto the scene essentially like the hero of an ancient story--in full, magnificent, heroic fettle from the very beginning.

More acceptable for the last few hundred years has been the "hero's journey," where the hero starts small and must overcome obstacles than in the end bring him to heroic status.

If you take the Luke Skywalker character, for instance, in the A New Hope he continually gets his head handed to him and is belittled through most of the movie. He has one only a couple of skills--the ability to fly and to shoot accurately, learned as a farm kid--and he scores one time in the entire movie. Then even in the second movie, he yet fails and fails again. It's only by the final movie that he knows enough to be the hero that was only promised in the earlier movies.

The other thing they do, which is more annoying than a "Mary Sue," is that they elevate the female characters by diminishing the male characters. That was most clear in "The Last Jedi."

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Political agendas like having women in hero roles of power?

More like having females heroes whose sole purpose seems to be to satisfy the SJW crowd, plus the bizarre "stick it to the man" Casino sequence in Last Jedi

 

[durangodawood]

More like having females heroes whose sole purpose seems to be to satisfy the SJW crowd, plus the bizarre "stick it to the man" Casino sequence in Last Jedi

Your first complaint is vague. Which female heros and how are they less valid than the rather goofy heros of earlier Star Wars movies?

As for the casino, why is sticking it to child slavers and nihilistic arms traders less valid that fighting the fascist empire? (I do agree that it was bizarre for more aesthetic reasons tho.)

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Your first complaint is vague. Which female heros and how are they less valid than the rather goofy heros of earlier Star Wars movies?

Rey for one. A kid who grew up without parents living in a desert but can defeat Kylo Ren in a duel despite having no Jedi training, and pilot the Millenium Falcon despite no pilot training (and perform stunts even Han Solo couldn't)

The problem isn't female heroes - it's making them almost without fault from the get-go, or alternatively just putting them into a role apparently for the sake of having a woman there.

Let's have female heroes - but make them believable.

As for the casino, why is sticking it to child slavers and nihilistic arms traders less valid that fighting the fascist empire? (I do agree that it was bizarre for more aesthetic reasons tho.)

Because Star Wars is about "fighting the fascist empire", and then you get this bizzare side-plot with Rose and Finn trying to stop a horse-thing-race and free some slaves who they end up leaving on the planet anyway. It's incredibly jarring to the plot

If we're talking freeing slaves mind you - don't you wonder why the entire Republic with all it's billions of credit-whatevers couldn't afford to free Anakin's mother, which set off the entire downfall of Anakin (and hence the Republic) in the first place

 

[RDKirk]

Because Star Wars is about "fighting the fascist empire", and then you get this bizzare side-plot with Rose and Finn trying to stop a horse-thing-race and free some slaves who they end up leaving on the planet anyway. It's incredibly jarring to the plot

If we're talking freeing slaves mind you - don't you wonder why the entire Republic with all it's billions of credit-whatevers couldn't afford to free Anakin's mother, which set off the entire downfall of Anakin (and hence the Republic) in the first place

One of the problems of that sequence is that she didn't try to free any slaves.

She only tried to free the beasts.

 

[durangodawood]

Rey for one. A kid who grew up without parents living in a desert but can defeat Kylo Ren in a duel despite having no Jedi training, and pilot the Millenium Falcon despite no pilot training (and perform stunts even Han Solo couldn't)

The problem isn't female heroes - it's making them almost without fault from the get-go, or alternatively just putting them into a role apparently for the sake of having a woman there.

Let's have female heroes - but make them believable.



Because Star Wars is about "fighting the fascist empire", and then you get this bizzare side-plot with Rose and Finn trying to stop a horse-thing-race and free some slaves who they end up leaving on the planet anyway. It's incredibly jarring to the plot

If we're talking freeing slaves mind you - don't you wonder why the entire Republic with all it's billions of credit-whatevers couldn't afford to free Anakin's mother, which set off the entire downfall of Anakin (and hence the Republic) in the first place

Yes I agree the 2 examples are stupid. But they are normal Star Wars franchise stupidity, for the reasons you mention, rather than any political agenda nonsense.

For me the absolute worst was when Chewbacca holds up the flame grilled island bird thing, and it looks just like a cartoon roasted chicken. So dumb.

Or how about "dropping" bombs on the imperial ultra mega destroyer in zero gravity?

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Forgot about this thread

Yes I agree the 2 examples are stupid. But they are normal Star Wars franchise stupidity, for the reasons you mention, rather than any political agenda nonsense.

I don't entirely agree with "normal Star Wars franchise stupidity" - the originals didn't have the same kind of stupid the latest two did. That's a big part of the problem with the new films.

For me the absolute worst was when Chewbacca holds up the flame grilled island bird thing, and it looks just like a cartoon roasted chicken. So dumb.

Or how about "dropping" bombs on the imperial ultra mega destroyer in zero gravity?

Absolutely. I can't imagine the board room meetings that decided they were good inclusions to the film. Then again - I can't imagine how most of the crap got into Last Jedi. My mind boggles

Oh - and don't forget milking the dinosaur

 

[Sam91]

What does SJW mean?

I liked Star trek. I couldn't stand Star Wars, except for Yoda, CP3O and R2D2.

I loved Next Generation as a child and grew up thinking about the technology. As a teen I really loved Voyager.

I liked the characters, variety of races and the thinking politics of Klingon's, Romulan's, Vulcan's and the Federation. My dad encouraged it with buying me the airfix ships to build with him.

 

[“Paisios”]

What does SJW mean?

I liked Star trek. I couldn't stand Star Wars, except for Yoda, CP3O and R2D2.

I loved Next Generation as a child and grew up thinking about the technology. As a teen I really loved Voyager.

I liked the characters, variety of races and the thinking politics of Klingon's, Romulan's, Vulcan's and the Federation. My dad encouraged it with buying me the airfix ships to build with him.

Big Star Trek fan here (though I also like Star Wars). And Voyager is one of my favorites, just after the original series.

 

[RDKirk]

Sisko was The Man in every respect. Single parent, good cook, successful mentor, loyal spouse, crafty captain, savior of the Federation, punched Q in the nose, became a deity.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Sisko was The Man in every respect. Single parent, good cook, successful mentor, loyal spouse, crafty captain, savior of the Federation, punched Q in the nose, became a deity.

I could never get to liking Sisko (or DS9 for that matter). For me Picard was the best captain, followed by Janeway.