Star Wars and creationists

Ryal Kane

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tocis said:
Granted that there are fanatics among fans (of whatever... not limited to SciFi I trust ;) ) too. I remember a run-in with a rabid Trekkie many years ago in good old FidoNet, in a discussion about "Could Darth Vader's Executor win a battle against the Enterprise D?" where at some time I posted something about those TIE Bomber squadrons aboard the Executor, and Mr Trekkie almost literally replied "Get it, dammit, lasers cannot pierce the E-D's shields!!!".

That reminded me of how I often feel reading a Christianity vs Islam or Wicca thread.
 
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NPH

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GoSeminoles! said:
Sorry, but the Expanded Universe is not a part of the accepted canon. If it wasn't said or done in the 6 films, then it is blasphemy.

You mean the 3 films of course, dont'cha? ;)

The canon of Star Wars was settled by the late 80's as the "Original Trilogy", or OT. The true Star Wars fan does not accept the "New Trilogy", or NT, as part of Lucas' revelation of the Star Wars universe. And we most especially do not accept the revisions made to our OT to make things fall more in line with your NT, like changing the vision of an elevated Anakin from the old man he was at death into the young man portrayed in your NT.

Oh, and in the OT it was made clear that it was perfectly acceptable for smugglers to shoot first. Revising this to show a bounty hunter shooting first was done just to satisfy your pc needs for a more 'pure' hero.

You prequelists can go on and on about what is canon and true about Star Wars all you like with your NT, books, comics etc and the resulting confusion, but the true Star Wars fans know that the OT is all there is.

:D:D:D:D
 
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Adriac

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(Slightly more) off-topic, I know, but the best explanation I've ever heard for that was also the simplest: Han was just BSing Obi Wan. Doing the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs is, while nonsensical, very impressive sounding when you're haggling over the price— but Obi's slightly knowing look in the next shot indicates that he isn't taken in by it.

See? Simple, concise, fits Han's character, and no need for ridiculously contrived stupidity :)
 
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TooCurious

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Dannager said:
IIRC, the apparent Kessel Run contradiction was explained away in the Expanded Universe. The Kessel Run is now supposedly used to describe a smuggling lane that travels through a very dangerous zone of proximous black holes. While one can take the "long way" and avoid the black holes entirely, smugglers have made something of a bragging-rights contest of trying to traverse the Kessel Run black hole field, skimming as close as possible to the black holes without getting sucked in and torn apart. Thus, the best pilots and starships are able to shorten the distance in which the Kessel Run takes place, by flying dangerously close to the black holes.

EDIT: Woooo, my geek is best! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessel_Run

Darn! You got to it before I could.

I will say that I accept the OT (Original Trilogy) as truth, along with some of the Extended Universe; the rest is apocrypha. The NT (New Trilogy) is useful only as a description of the early life of Obi-Wan Kenobi; none of the rest is to be taken literally.

Back to the topic, I do agree with the analogy presented in the OP, although in defense of geeks, we are generally willing to concede, ultimately, that we are debating fiction.
 
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Lilandra

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that the laws of box only physics did not apply. The laws started to vastly change as result of Anakin's Fall.

The change was so amazing that it was even retroactive!

If there was no Fall then Luke Skywalker would have been unnecessary to restore balance to the force.

You can't judge the OT by the laws of our Physical Only universe.

GoSeminoles! said:
I freely confess I am a Star Wars geek (and Star Trek and a number of other sci-fi shows). Oddly, we share an interesting behavioral trait with creationists, especially the Biblical literalists.

One of the things SW fans like to do is spin stories to cover or close apparent contradictions and plot holes. For example, when Han Solo boasted of the Millenium Falcons's speed he said it made the "Kessel run" in less than 12 parsecs (a parsec is a unit of distance, not time). How do we clear up this apparent gaff? We SW fans have decided the "Kessel Run" is actually a contest in which a transport ship must take a route between two randomly moving points in space, thus the contest's premium is on minimizing the distance traveled, not the speed in completing the task.

Yeah, I know, we're reaching.

We SW fans even argue over what is acceptable canon. Some say only the 6 Star Wars movies define what has happened in the Star Wars universe. Liberals also count the fan novels as acceptable canon. Harsh words and heated emotions characterize this debate.

Of course, the real explanation for why there are plot holes and contradictions in the Star Wars trilogies is that they are just movies written by men who occasionally make a mistake or an oversight.

If this sounds familiar it is because this is the same way Biblical literalists behave regarding Genesis, except they take it much more seriously. They painstakingly craft strained explanations for each and every contradiction and scientific impossibility Genesis gives us. Yes, they tell us, Noah really was 950 years old and 11 feet tall because, uh, there was more oxygen in the atmosphere then. Yeah! The first Genesis creation story says plants and animals came before man, but the second one says just the opposite. This isn't a contradiction because....well...because the Bible is infallible! And so the creationists go, spinning a strained explanation for every scientific absurdity and every contradition in Genesis.

Of course, the real explanation for these absurdities and contraditions is that Genesis is just a story written by men to entertain people around the campfire and maybe teach them a moral or two in the process. Three thousand years from now will there be an army of idiots insisting the events in Star Wars really took place?
 
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Freodin

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consideringlily said:
that the laws of box only physics did not apply. The laws started to vastly change as result of Anakin's Fall.

The change was so amazing that it was even retroactive!

If there was no Fall then Luke Skywalker would have been unnecessary to restore balance to the force.

You can't judge the OT by the laws of our Physical Only universe.

Aw, Lily, that wasn´t fair!

:D
 
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Luciano

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tocis said:
That reminds me of something I wanted to ask for quite some time now...

...anyone outside Germany who knows that goo' ol' SciFi series "Raumpatrouille Orion", produced in Germany sometime in the 60s - in black'n'white? That thingie is a matter of extremes as far as I can tell - you either love it or hate it, without any inbetweens. Bizarre, and made with an amazing abount of improvising... :D )

Oh boy, have we hijacked this thread...

I DO!
I watched it in TV LOTS of years ago (I thinks it was the early 70s) and few weeks ago I bought the DVD :blush:

I like it, it aged but quite well, even if I must say my Texan (and 16 years younger) wife watched me and the show with an amused smile, for few minutes then she ran away :D
But she's a geek for other things, so...

Ciao
Luciano
 
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drunkard

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This thread gives me conflicting emotions. On the one hand, it saddens me deeply that there are people who will actually argue over the sorts of things mentioned here. :cry: These people really need to find an outdoor hobby of some kind.
On the other hand, it makes me feel a whole heck of a lot better about my own level of geekdom. I may be a bit odd, but some of you are FREAKS! :p
 
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Dannager

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drunkard said:
This thread gives me conflicting emotions. On the one hand, it saddens me deeply that there are people who will actually argue over the sorts of things mentioned here. :cry: These people really need to find an outdoor hobby of some kind.
On the other hand, it makes me feel a whole heck of a lot better about my own level of geekdom. I may be a bit odd, but some of you are FREAKS! :p
Nah, we're not that weird.
 
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GoSeminoles! said:
I freely confess I am a Star Wars geek (and Star Trek and a number of other sci-fi shows). Oddly, we share an interesting behavioral trait with creationists, especially the Biblical literalists.

<snipped for brevity>

Of course, the real explanation for these absurdities and contraditions is that Genesis is just a story written by men to entertain people around the campfire and maybe teach them a moral or two in the process. Three thousand years from now will there be an army of idiots insisting the events in Star Wars really took place?

This is wayyyyy too much of an apt analogy. Well done.
 
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Dannager

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Pats said:
There's an oft-used quotation out there by a Catholic priest that goes something like "All of the Bible is true, and some of it actually happened!" I figured with all the Star Wars-Christianity juxtapositioning going on already, I might as well do some of my own.
 
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michabo

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GoSeminoles,

You're definately bringing up visions of the time when all of the geeks will battle over the true interpretations in the Star Trek Wars (not to be confused with the great pilgrimages, the Star Wars Treks).

Now where did that episode of Futurama go...?
 
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Pats

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Dannager said:
There's an oft-used quotation out there by a Catholic priest that goes something like "All of the Bible is true, and some of it actually happened!" I figured with all the Star Wars-Christianity juxtapositioning going on already, I might as well do some of my own.

LOL!

I firmly accept the entire Star Wars universe from OT to NT and all of the expanded universe. :cool:

If you guys like this thread, you should take a look at the devotion of the fandom in this one: http://www.christianforums.com/t2782100-star-wars-vs-star-trek-debate.html
 
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USincognito said:
I think you're being too charitable FB. I read this thread and see them saying, "man, what a bunch of nerds..."
(defensive posture) I'm not a nerd! I never watched Babylon5. The only episode of Star Trek Truckstop [Deepspace 9] that I ever made myself sit through was the one where the leopard-spotted girl kissed Miss America. And I really do watch Doctor Who because his companion is a hottie.

6c_7.JPG


Drat! I guess I am a nerd, and a bit of pathetic perv too. :doh:
 
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Aron-Ra said:
(defensive posture) I'm not a nerd! I never watched Babylon5. The only episode of Star Trek Truckstop [Deepspace 9] that I ever made myself sit through was the one where the leopard-spotted girl kissed Miss America.

Blasphemy! DS9 was far and away the best of all the Star Trek series, including the original. ST: "Truckstop" is pretty funny, though.
 
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Pats

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US said:
I think you're being too charitable FB. I read this thread and see them saying, "man, what a bunch of nerds..."
Aron-Ra said:
(defensive posture) I'm not a nerd! I never watched Babylon5. The only episode of Star Trek Truckstop [Deepspace 9] that I ever made myself sit through was the one where the leopard-spotted girl kissed Miss America. And I really do watch Doctor Who because his companion is a hottie.

6c_7.JPG


Drat! I guess I am a nerd, and a bit of pathetic perv too. :doh:

Who are you calling a nerd? The guy who plays Dr Who has a savy british accent! And we all know Han Solo, Harrison Ford, is to die for.... :p
 
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