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Star Wars and creationists

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by GoSeminoles!, May 28, 2006.

  1. GoSeminoles!

    GoSeminoles! Guest

    +0
    I freely confess I am a Star Wars geek (and Star Trek and a number of other sci-fi shows). Oddly, we share an interesting behavioral trait with creationists, especially the Biblical literalists.

    One of the things SW fans like to do is spin stories to cover or close apparent contradictions and plot holes. For example, when Han Solo boasted of the Millenium Falcons's speed he said it made the "Kessel run" in less than 12 parsecs (a parsec is a unit of distance, not time). How do we clear up this apparent gaff? We SW fans have decided the "Kessel Run" is actually a contest in which a transport ship must take a route between two randomly moving points in space, thus the contest's premium is on minimizing the distance traveled, not the speed in completing the task.

    Yeah, I know, we're reaching.

    We SW fans even argue over what is acceptable canon. Some say only the 6 Star Wars movies define what has happened in the Star Wars universe. Liberals also count the fan novels as acceptable canon. Harsh words and heated emotions characterize this debate.

    Of course, the real explanation for why there are plot holes and contradictions in the Star Wars trilogies is that they are just movies written by men who occasionally make a mistake or an oversight.

    If this sounds familiar it is because this is the same way Biblical literalists behave regarding Genesis, except they take it much more seriously. They painstakingly craft strained explanations for each and every contradiction and scientific impossibility Genesis gives us. Yes, they tell us, Noah really was 950 years old and 11 feet tall because, uh, there was more oxygen in the atmosphere then. Yeah! The first Genesis creation story says plants and animals came before man, but the second one says just the opposite. This isn't a contradiction because....well...because the Bible is infallible! And so the creationists go, spinning a strained explanation for every scientific absurdity and every contradition in Genesis.

    Of course, the real explanation for these absurdities and contraditions is that Genesis is just a story written by men to entertain people around the campfire and maybe teach them a moral or two in the process. Three thousand years from now will there be an army of idiots insisting the events in Star Wars really took place?
     
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  2. Tomk80

    Tomk80 Titleless

    +384
    Agnostic
    There already is one, although the story is even less compelling than the star wars stories are. It's called scientology.
     
  3. Micaiah

    Micaiah Well-Known Member

    +35
    Christian
    The similarites are superficial. The account in Genesis has elements of the supernatural, but is clearly provided as an historical record of what occurred.
     
  4. Dragar

    Dragar Like the root of -1

    +213
    Atheist
    'Elements'? :D

    If that is the case (and plenty of people beg to differ), it'll take some apologetics as great as any Star Wars fan's to prevent it being falsified.

    And that's just clumsy, don't you think? Having all those extra, complicated, ah hoc extra things you have to belief just to preserve the myths of an ancient culture?
     
  5. Micaiah

    Micaiah Well-Known Member

    +35
    Christian
    Okay, there is a lot of supernatural in the Genesis account of origins. God said it, and it happened. Supernatural. I was thinking more of some of the things like the serpent that spoke to Adam and Eve.

    We don't claim to fully understand what happened or how it happened. You'd understand what that is like being and evolutionist.
     
  6. Dragar

    Dragar Like the root of -1

    +213
    Atheist
    The difference is, scientists can make progress on reducing those gaps in our knowledge. Creationists can't.
     
  7. Edx

    Edx Senior Veteran

    +106
    Atheist
    Theres some lovelly plot holes in the new Battlestar Galactica. Only seen Season 1 so far, but there are some some, small, but fun ones. Even I cant stretch the story to come up with anything to explain them! :D If they were in the Bible though, Creationists would be able to though.
     
  8. Micaiah

    Micaiah Well-Known Member

    +35
    Christian
    If the origins of the earth are supernatural, the naturalist's epistemology prevents him from discovering the truth.
     
  9. Dragar

    Dragar Like the root of -1

    +213
    Atheist
    If the origins are supernatural, then there is no methodology that we can rely upon to discover the truth.

    Conversely, if the origins are natural, then a Creationist's biases prevent him discovering the truth.

    So you either have:

    a) Give up and take a guess ("God did it!") - one supernatural option from a multitude, and no reliable way of discerning between them.
    b) Assume natural origins, and (if there is a natural origin) we have a good shot at finding it.
     
  10. Mocca

    Mocca MokAce - Priest of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

    +43
    Atheist
    US-Libertarian
    You could use Occam's Razor.

    Oops, that would get rid of the supernatural.
     
  11. Aron-Ra

    Aron-Ra Senior Veteran

    +356
    Atheist
    Single
    I like the new Doctor Who. [​IMG] Or maybe I just like Rose Tyler.
     
  12. Edx

    Edx Senior Veteran

    +106
    Atheist
    I dislike it. Bad Acting, bad special effects. The old version had a certian charm to it, they couldnt help it looking bad. but here its like they purposefully went out to make it like this. Its like making a new Star Trek and trying to make it just like the 60s series. I remember seeing an american BBC collaboration a while back and it was so much better.

    Thats it. :)
     
  13. tocis

    tocis Warrior of Thor

    +110
    Other Religion
    Married
    It's often fun to think up some explanations for strange things... and as long as you aren't dead serious about it, why not?

    Granted that there are fanatics among fans (of whatever... not limited to SciFi I trust ;) ) too. I remember a run-in with a rabid Trekkie many years ago in good old FidoNet, in a discussion about "Could Darth Vader's Executor win a battle against the Enterprise D?" where at some time I posted something about those TIE Bomber squadrons aboard the Executor, and Mr Trekkie almost literally replied "Get it, dammit, lasers cannot pierce the E-D's shields!!!".

    Yeah right. Maybe actually reading a posting before replying would be a good idea, no?

    Okay, so much for funny stories of the past. Yes, creationists (and I dare say fundies generally) have some things in common with geeks. :D
     
  14. tocis

    tocis Warrior of Thor

    +110
    Other Religion
    Married
    Too bad that it cannot be true, no? ;)

    (Not in the literal sense at least...)
     
  15. tocis

    tocis Warrior of Thor

    +110
    Other Religion
    Married
    Absolutely... :thumbsup:
     
  16. tocis

    tocis Warrior of Thor

    +110
    Other Religion
    Married
    How about you define how you tell whether something is "supernatural" or "natural in a way we don't yet know"? :scratch:

    You know, some centuries before our time I trust most people would have called the idea that humans could ever fly "supernatural" too...
     
  17. tocis

    tocis Warrior of Thor

    +110
    Other Religion
    Married
    That reminds me of something I wanted to ask for quite some time now...

    ...anyone outside Germany who knows that goo' ol' SciFi series "Raumpatrouille Orion", produced in Germany sometime in the 60s - in black'n'white? That thingie is a matter of extremes as far as I can tell - you either love it or hate it, without any inbetweens. Bizarre, and made with an amazing abount of improvising... :D )

    Oh boy, have we hijacked this thread...
     
  18. Magnus Vile

    Magnus Vile Well-Known Member

    +198
    Atheist
    Private
    Tell me you're joking... :eek:

    Ok, maybe you don't like the new series, there's no acounting for taste, after all, (and Aron's picture is out of date, the Doctor is now played by a different actor) but that abomination of a movie?

    The only thing that came out of that looking any good was the actor playing the Doctor, (who went on to do several audio drama CD's for Big Finish). Pretty much everything else in it was unbeliveably weak, except the plot, which was absent...


    And I happen to rather like the new effects. And I still watch the original series. (Particualrly the 'real' Doctor, Tom Baker. :p )
     
  19. Dannager

    Dannager Back in Town

    +453
    Catholic
    US-Democrat
    IIRC, the apparent Kessel Run contradiction was explained away in the Expanded Universe. The Kessel Run is now supposedly used to describe a smuggling lane that travels through a very dangerous zone of proximous black holes. While one can take the "long way" and avoid the black holes entirely, smugglers have made something of a bragging-rights contest of trying to traverse the Kessel Run black hole field, skimming as close as possible to the black holes without getting sucked in and torn apart. Thus, the best pilots and starships are able to shorten the distance in which the Kessel Run takes place, by flying dangerously close to the black holes.

    EDIT: Woooo, my geek is best! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessel_Run
     
  20. GoSeminoles!

    GoSeminoles! Guest

    +0
    Sorry, but the Expanded Universe is not a part of the accepted canon. If it wasn't said or done in the 6 films, then it is blasphemy.
     
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