Stake, Not Cross

[CherubRam]

The word Cross a note


Homeric and classical Greek

In Homeric and classical Greek, stauros meant an upright stake, pole, or piece of paling, upon which anything might be hung.

In the literature of that time, it never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle, but always one piece alone.

Koine Greek

In Koine Greek, the form of Greek used between about 300 BC and AD 300, the word σταυρός (Stauros) was used to denote a structure on which the Romans executed criminals. In the writings of the Diodorus Siculus (1st century BC), Plutarch and Lucian – non-Christian writers, of whom only Lucian makes clear the shape of the device – the word stauros is generally translated as "stake."

 

[CherubRam]

Origin of the word crux. Latin for: stake, scaffold, or cross, used in executions or torment.

The English term "cross" is derived from the Latin word crux. From about 1635 to 1645 AD.


Labarum

An upright pole with cross section to display a standard such as a flag, banner, or emblem.


Word Origin

From Late Latin, and of obscure origin

This standard was known by the name "labarum"—a word the etymology of which is very uncertain. The etymology of the word is unclear. Some derive it from Latin /labāre/ "to totter, or to waver." The labarum was also used to hold the ancient Babylonian sky-god emblem.


Patibulum

It is a establish fact that the two-beamed cross was in existence in the time of Yahshua, and that the word crux was used to refer to it. The crux was composed of two main pieces: The stipes, which is the upright pole, and the patibulum attached to it. The patibulum is the cross beam.


Stipe

Stipe is an upright support.

From Latin stipes "log, post, tree trunk"


Stauros

Stauros (σταυρός) is the Greek word for stake or post.

 

[Hieronymus]

I will look into this further, i think it's interesting.
From what i have come across just now, it may have been a T (in Christ's case with a sign on top apparently), it may have been a cross.
But it seems the convict often had a wooden beam stretching his arms outward, tied with rope or with nails through the wrists.
That beam then was placed on top of the stake / pole (stipe), so you get a T or a cross, depending on how the beam was held up on the stake / pole (stipe).
You're saying it wasn't a cross or T, just a stake / pole (stipe).

I think your point is they made it a cross in tradition, possibly covertly referring to something pagan.
Exactly what it would refer to is not (yet) clear though.

 

[JackRT]

No, they crucified Him because the Pharisees begged them to, and decided to do it because Jesus caused trouble in their occupied areas.

The High Priest and his inner circle were Sadducees not Pharisees. The Pharisees were actually somewhat favourable toward Jesus as witness the behaviour of Nicodimus and Gamaliel. After all, Rabbi Yeshua was a Pharisee himself.

 

[Hieronymus]

The High Priest and his inner circle were Sadducees not Pharisees.

O, sorry.
I don't even know the difference between those...

The Pharisees were actually somewhat favourable toward Jesus as witness the behaviour of Nicodimus and Gamaliel. After all, Rabbi Yeshua was a Pharisee himself.

So was Saul (later Paul) who prosecuted Christians.

 

[JackRT]

So was Saul (later Paul) who prosecuted Christians.

My personal suspicion is that Saul/Paul was a Gentile converted to Judaism. He was extremely zealous and entered rabbinical studies in the Bet Hillel school under Rabbi Gamaliel. Failing in his rabbinical studies he entered the Temple Police acting as a civilian provocateur. He was a very very strange character and enters history as the true founder of Christianity.

 

[pat34lee]

Rabbi Yeshua was a Pharisee himself.

No, he wasn't. Nor was he an Essene. Or a Zealot.
Yeshua was not a follower of any man.

 

[CherubRam]

Here is a pic of a Roman cross with their gods on it:

Religion

 

[Open Heart]

Different doctrines.

Not Necessarily. I'm a Jewish Christian, a Christian, and a Messianic Jew.

 

[Open Heart]

A Judaic Christian does not keep the festivals, sacrifices, circumcision, or have a Rabbi.

I do.

 

[Open Heart]

Michael Hiles , being Jewish and forced (if he wanted that commission) to wear a symbol that many of his relatives may have been murdered under is just wrong.

I wonder if they considered using the 'messianic symbol'?

That shouldn't insult anyone as it does not use the cross or tablets but the fish and menorah.

I think it is obscene to insist that anyone wear ANY symbol that they don't want to, especially when it comes to religion. I think as regards to MJ, the most appropriate symbol is the Mogen David with the cross inside, but that's just my own opinion. Id never force it on someone.

 

[Open Heart]

Here is a pic of a Roman cross with their gods on it:

Religion

I don't see a cross in this picture.

 

[Open Heart]

No, he wasn't. Nor was he an Essene. Or a Zealot.
Yeshua was not a follower of any man.

I think he was of the school of Hillel. I agree with Jack that he was a Pharisee. Just not a bet Shammai Pharisee like the ones he argued with.

 

[Open Heart]

I will look into this further, i think it's interesting.
From what i have come across just now, it may have been a T (in Christ's case with a sign on top apparently), it may have been a cross.
But it seems the convict often had a wooden beam stretching his arms outward, tied with rope or with nails through the wrists.
That beam then was placed on top of the stake / pole (stipe), so you get a T or a cross, depending on how the beam was held up on the stake / pole (stipe).
You're saying it wasn't a cross or T, just a stake / pole (stipe).

I think your point is they made it a cross in tradition, possibly covertly referring to something pagan.
Exactly what it would refer to is not (yet) clear though.

T or cross, same difference. I don't think the Romans were meticulous about getting that "T" exact. Wherever they nailed the crossbeam was good enough.

 

[CherubRam]

I don't see a cross in this picture.

You don't see it because it is decorated.

 

[CherubRam]

I do.

You are not a Judaic Christian.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

My personal suspicion is that Saul/Paul was a Gentile converted to Judaism.

How was he then of the tribe of Binyamin? Philippians 3:5

 

[Open Heart]

You are not a Judaic Christian.

Am I a Jew doing Judaism stuff? Yes. And am I also a Christian doing Christian stuff? Yes. Thus, I am a Judaic Chrisitan.

BTW, I'm sure you realize that "Judaic Christian" is a term that either you made up, or your friends made up. It doesn't even good. The closest terms are "Judeo Christian" and "Jewish Christians." I think you qualify as Judeo Christian, although I've never heard it used as a religious category before. Since you are not a Jew, you aren't a Jewish Christian. But all that aside, I get what you are TRYING to say. I'm just saying, the label fits me as well.

 

[Open Heart]

You don't see it because it is decorated.

could you maybe give a description of where it is in the relief?

 

[CherubRam]

could you maybe give a description of where it is in the relief?

The round disk shapes represent gods and are attached to the poles. banners are often attached to the cross beam.