Staff/members discussion thread. Report-free.

[Chaplain David]

I'd like to add one thing more before I go and commune with nature (ie: start winterizing our garden).

We tend to forget that we are being read not just by the participants in the thread, but by people who may not be even registered at CF. We forget that those people may not have the slightest hint of former animosities, or know that "some people ALWAYS make any thread about _______________" . We could be doing incredible harm to someone we've never even seen before, because words are so powerful.

All ~I~ ask is that there be enough respect shown to all posters, that at the Judgment Seat we aren't told that our words caused someone to stumble, or worse.

Off to winterize the garden!

If I were to read some of the things as a nonmember (without the perspective of the rest of the forum because there is so much good on CF) and be looking for a forum to join and saw some of the posts that we have, I would do an about face, and look for another forum. I don't think any of us want that to happen.

 

[Nilla]

I'm not feeling my best today so I'm apologizing in advance if this comes across as harsh in anyway, it's not intended that way.

I know that very big sources for frustration and lack of interest in posting is misinterpritation, misrepresentation and taking things to the extreme and I'm sure there are others that I'm forgetting right now.

When that happens, what do you is send a PM to 911 Mediationstaff with a link to your post and the one where you've been misinterpritated, given explaination and still are not heard. We will be in there to help.

We are here to help - we can't do it on our own though. I really appreciate everyone who's been helping us to see the issues and have offered solutions to the problems. I know a lot of you have edited your posts when asked - for that we're grateful and I'm sure that everyone else is as well. But asking you to focus on the way your posting isn't avoiding the problem IMO. It's offering help but from a different angle.

I can't change someone else and how they're posting, I can only change the way I approach things. I know that when I feel like I've tried everything in the book I get frustrated and trust me I'd be bald if I had started to pull my own hair. (Hope you're not doing that!) What we're trying to do here is offer some help from other angles.

We are looking at the issues I mentioned earlier. But since we can't be in here 24/7, we do have other things that need our attention as well, we are relying on you all to help us out. By sending a PM, start a thread in MSC...

Oh and if you're reading and haven't posted yet but still want to share opinions, thoughts..please do so. If you don't want to do it in the thread, send us a PM or start a thread in MSC.

With all that said - back to the posting style topic.

 

[chaz345]

All good points IMO. I've used ignore and have both found it helpful and problematic. Sometimes I'd peek.

In general, my opinion is that ideally, we (and I'm using a nebulous we and not referring to anyone specifically right now), would develop the self control to not respond to certain posts or parts of posts. If a problem poster is not responded to then the negative things that result will simply not happen. Or?

While not responding can certainly help, why can't what's being responded(or not responded)to be addressed? Because after all, that's where it's starting. Saying "be nicer" and "don't respond negatively" is missing the actual cause of the problem. Be nice and post respectfully are all well and good and true and must be done. But it is wrong, unfair, and to be brutally blunt un-Biblical to focus on the response and ignore the original disrespect.

The problem poster is the problem, not the response. Well the response is often wrong too, but if the focus is going to be only on responding better, we'll end up with a place that may have less overt conflict, but it will be a place where only certain viewpoints are acceptable, which I'm starting to wonder if maybe is the real goal anyway. Yes we can and should respond better(or not at all). I'm not arguing against that. But I, for one am also not going to do it until I have some reason to believe that the actual root is going to be addressed in an effective way too. If the responders are all just nice then like I said we have less conflict, but we also have a very "hollow" place where only certain things can be said. It would be like a marriage that never has any conflict or disagreement. Such a marriage looks nice and peaceful, but can only happen if there's not real connection in the first place. Same thing would the case here. No conflict, but no real connection/sharing of idea would be happening.

 

[FaithPrevails]

It doesn't. That's when you ask for thread mediation, or closure, and the hapless member of staff who really SHOULD take out stock in Excedrin gets to explain to each of these people B-Z or whatever that they've derailed a thread, and can they self-edit to at least relate to the OP.

Posting nice is not jumping on them during this and making the matter worse by personal attacks on B-Z. Pretending it's someone you care about helps with that because if you KNEW say, the person you loved most in the world would freak out at the mere mention of dogs no matter what because they had to go through reconstructive surgery to reconnect their face after being savaged by a Chihuahua that resented being forced to wear a tutu, you'd be more gentle in how you tried to convince them that not all dogs are bad, and that perhaps the Chihuahua had an actual grievance re; the tutu. You'd overlook a lot of inflammatory remarks knowing that the person had issues. When you corrected, you'd do it gently, understanding their pain, and not forcing the issues.

I'm just saying to respond, or NOT respond, in love, knowing that someone has something very painful behind them that prompts the overreaction (and I know what you mean, I've seen it, and it's tedious). Know that you don't know who they are, nor what happened to make them that way. Only God knows that, and He doesn't feel we need to know. We DO need to love our neighbour, and there's no "unless he/she is being provoking" clause to get out of that.

Great post, especially the bolded.

 

[Edial]

I'm not feeling my best today so I'm apologizing in advance if this comes across as harsh in anyway, it's not intended that way.

I know that very big sources for frustration and lack of interest in posting is misinterpritation, misrepresentation and taking things to the extreme and I'm sure there are others that I'm forgetting right now.

When that happens, what do you is send a PM to 911 Mediationstaff with a link to your post and the one where you've been misinterpritated, given explaination and still are not heard. We will be in there to help.

We are here to help - we can't do it on our own though. I really appreciate everyone who's been helping us to see the issues and have offered solutions to the problems. I know a lot of you have edited your posts when asked - for that we're grateful and I'm sure that everyone else is as well. But asking you to focus on the way your posting isn't avoiding the problem IMO. It's offering help but from a different angle.

I can't change someone else and how they're posting, I can only change the way I approach things. I know that when I feel like I've tried everything in the book I get frustrated and trust me I'd be bald if I had started to pull my own hair. (Hope you're not doing that!) What we're trying to do here is offer some help from other angles.

We are looking at the issues I mentioned earlier. But since we can't be in here 24/7, we do have other things that need our attention as well, we are relying on you all to help us out. By sending a PM, start a thread in MSC...

Oh and if you're reading and haven't posted yet but still want to share opinions, thoughts..please do so. If you don't want to do it in the thread, send us a PM or start a thread in MSC.

With all that said - back to the posting style topic.

What she said ...

 

[FaithPrevails]

While not responding can certainly help, why can't what's being responded(or not responded)to be addressed? Because after all, that's where it's starting.

If what is being responded or not responded to is brought to the attention of the 911 Mods, then it should (hopefully) get addressed. As long as it's truly problematic and not just a personality conflict or something that was taken as personally offensive.

What I've been trying to do is post one reasonable response and if that doesn't seem effective, then I bring it to the 911 Mods.

The problem is that if other people don't do the same, then a thread can often go several pages longer before a 911 Mod gets brought in and then the thread just gets closed down b/c it's too much to go back through and sort out.

That is what will make this whole process ineffective, IMO. But, if they are relying on us to bring this to their attention as soon as they become problematic, then we have to do our part if we expect them to do theirs.

 

[chaz345]

If what is being responded or not responded to is brought to the attention of the 911 Mods, then it should (hopefully) get addressed. As long as it's truly problematic and not just a personality conflict or something that was taken as personally offensive.

What I've been trying to do is post one reasonable response and if that doesn't seem effective, then I bring it to the 911 Mods.

The problem is that if other people don't do the same, then a thread can often go several pages longer before a 911 Mod gets brought in and then the thread just gets closed down b/c it's too much to go back through and sort out.

That is what will make this whole process ineffective, IMO. But, if they are relying on us to bring this to their attention as soon as they become problematic, then we have to do our part if we expect them to do theirs.

To be totally honest, the problem is often not so much the negative response to the problematic post, it's the piling on by people agreeing with it.

I've seen cases where the problematic post is ignored, or not responded to by the one being misrepresented and 2 or 3 people pile on agreeing with is and suddenly the thread is about that new, and usually totally wrong meaning.

It is my opinion that such situations are not going to stop until the misrepresenting is plainly and directly called out as wrong by the staff, probably even needs to be publically in some cases. No ban, no official warning just a simple and direct "you were wrong to post this, they didn't mean that, please stop" sort of thing.

 

[chaz345]

In any case I'm out for the weekend. Leaving work early to go to a marriage retreat with my wife.

See you all monday.

 

[Nilla]

In any case I'm out for the weekend. Leaving work early to go to a marriage retreat with my wife.

See you all monday.

Have an awesome weekend Chaz!

 

[Chaplain David]

Thanks everyone, I'm going to bow out of this thread for a while. I need a break, some coffee, and since I got a new Wide Screen and HD cable service today, maybe I can learn how to operate the remote and find some good channels. See you later kind people. God bless.

 

[pdudgeon]

i agree with the above.
i think a lot of the problems are comming from getting the Op hashed out so that people have enough information about the situations or questions to make reasonable answers.
Don't talk about a mouse if your real problem is an elephant.

When you post in here, come in expecting people to ask you questions. don't come in here just expecting everyone to agree with you--that's not what this forum is for.

If you're not comfortable receiving suggestions from various viewpoints, say that upfront.

Obviously people who come here have problems or questions about things that they haven't been able to solve themselves with what they've already tried. they should be ready to listen to several different ways of handling what they're going thru.

if there's a way to work all this out so that the expectations are the same on both sides--OP and responders--maybe that would help.

 

[McScribe]

Thanks everyone, I'm going to bow out of this thread for a while. I need a break, some coffee, and since I got a new Wide Screen and HD cable service today, maybe I can learn how to operate the remote and find some good channels. See you later kind people. God bless.

God bless, take care.

 

[McScribe]

i agree with the above.
i think a lot of the problems are comming from getting the Op hashed out so that people have enough information about the situations or questions to make reasonable answers.
Don't talk about a mouse if your real problem is an elephant.

When you post in here, come in expecting people to ask you questions. don't come in here just expecting everyone to agree with you--that's not what this forum is for.

If you're not comfortable receiving suggestions from various viewpoints, say that upfront.

Obviously people who come here have problems or questions about things that they haven't been able to solve themselves with what they've already tried. they should be ready to listen to several different ways of handling what they're going thru.

if there's a way to work all this out so that the expectations are the same on both sides--OP and responders--maybe that would help.

With respect, I could care less about agreement. What bothers me is that a particular group of posters attack the character of other posters constantly and never stop. And that even one of the Admins agreed with them. How in the world is it okay for men to be accused of advocating marital rape? How is it acceptable for women to be accused of having no legitimate testimony because of their age? What difference will the style of posting make?

 

[dallasapple]

That is a complete exageration ..no one said anyone was advocatign maritla rape..the LINE of thinking has led wmen to be raped it a true statement and its not "accusing' anyone of anything..its a line of thinking that is a fact is not a helthy way to think IN GENERAL..

And no ones character was ATTACKED..if an opinion in general of marriages today.. is a personal attack then I dont know how anyone could be avoiding daily personal attack if they happen to not agree with what another persons opinion is.

And the only direct personal attack I have seen around here lately Mcscribe was YOU attackign me..directly accusing me of many things including calling me "arrogant" just to name one..the mods took care of it..

But if I say I think .. many (not ALL)males and females alike today ..are obsessed with sex..and that is a lot of why divorces occur(I didnt say that but Ed did)...its NOT a personal attack on YOU..

Thats the difference..If YOU feel like someone is talkign directly to YOU ask them..but I never saw anyone name you ..However you did directly call me many things..including tellign me that I speak from 'no foundation" and I am "randomly dribbling"(was it dribbling or what I cant remember)..So I dont get how you feel that an OPINION is a personal attack..but yet you think its O.K to directly call me or anyone "names" outright?

Dallas

 

[Tannic]

I'm going to say this and I'm out for the weekend.

I get more info and help out of a thread that looking at things in a positive way. Negativity on top of negativity is negativity. When the thread was finally going positive for a change and it lasted for a good 20 pages. I learned what I needed that help my marriage. And it kept going on and on until the negative posters come in and others take the thread in a direction where everything is bad. Fingers are being pointing, it's negativity on top of negativity which leads to more extremes. They completely derail the thread when they can make another one and focus on the extremes. The judgmental attitudes are darn right wrong and it get's out of hand. Someone can post here about a situation they are having and it's divorce. It's mounting reasons why they should just leave. All this shows some current posters and those that come to this site how childish, judgmental and negative posters are here. I'm to the point where if the cat wants to take a swap at me. I'm going to swap right back at it. Posting style will prolly help and other things as well but until the root of problem is uprooted it's going to come back. I see no point of beating around the bush about this. You can't really cover things when they are not confronted head on.

 

[dallasapple]

Oh and for the record..I already forgave Mcscribe for the direct insults and attacks he made on me even though he never aksed(no reason to hold a grudge the spent energy is not healthy for me)...Im amazed however he thinks an opinion ON some people in marriage is a personal attack on him..and objecting to certain lines of thinking that HAVE throughout history directly led to MANY women being raped is saying that the person is 'advocating marital rape' is his idea of "personal attack"..

No one would be able to evne GIVE an opinin on a subject that is in anyway negative..if anyone in earshot could get confused and think they are talking directly about them and attacking them...especially from the same person that DOES outright attack people directly ..

And also here is the deal..SOMETIMES people will NOT like your view..period..they will just plainly NOT like it..MY view has been called "selfish" 100 times by many different people..SO what?I know IM NOT selfish..period..and I can argue my view is NOT selfish..IMHO..thats it..otherwise some people think I'm selfish and guess what?It doesnt MATTER..LOL!!Later when Im taking my grandbaby for a walk teaching him to ride his spiderman bicycle..he looks in my eyes..and I KNOW he does not think Im selfish..and he is ONE person in my life to name ONE that I really care what they think about me...NO ONE here is going to make him believe otherwise..No one here will AFFECT my realtionships and what the peopel who LOVE me think about me..and no one can make me believe Im something Im NOT..If I feel "convicted" and learn from something GREAT(gentle correction or suggestions on improvement) ..thats a GOOD thing..otherwise Im good with my own feelings about myself and the people who love me..

Dallas

 

[mkgal1]

Okay.....about negativity and how to discuss it. There *are* "wrong beliefs" or "unloving attitudes". If we don't know what "good" looks like clearly, we can't discern good from bad....right? Is there not a *spirit of truth* and a *spirit of error*? It may not be all sunshine and roses, but personally I feel it's an important topic.

So....how does one discuss that? I am reading complaints about "extremes" being brought up, but normally that's only by saying, "that's the line of reasoning behind.....". There are varying degrees of actual usage of that reasoning, but the attitude is the same all throughout.

 

[Nilla]

Closing this thread for now.

 

[Edial]

OK. So you know.
Since negativity appears to be in the blood of this forum we are going to start enforcing something else now.
If someone starts addressing someone PERSONALLY like by name or by addressing that person directly in a NEGATIVE way, the bans that are being used at this time would extend to such posters as well.

If you disagree with something - address the post and not the poster.

If you do not have anything nice to say to an individual, do not address the individual at all.

This thread would remain closed for now.

So please reflect on this.

In Christ,
Ed

 

[Chaplain David]

OK. So you know.
Since negativity appears to be in the blood of this forum we are going to start enforcing something else now.
If someone starts addressing someone PERSONALLY like by name or by addressing that person directly in a NEGATIVE way, the bans that are being used at this time would extend to such posters as well.

If you disagree with something - address the post and not the poster.

If you do not have anything nice to say to an individual, do not address the individual at all.

This thread would remain closed for now.

So please reflect on this.

In Christ,
Ed

What Ed and Nilla said. And, I wanted to remind everyone to use 911 Mediation if needed. Here is the link http://www.christianforums.com/t7591907/

God bless.