St. Thomas in Paraguay?

[mindlight]

The bible talks of incidents where apostles like Phillip were suddenly transported across vast distances.

Acts 8:39 "When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing. 40 Philip, however, appeared at Azotus and traveled about, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he reached Caesarea."

So why not other apostles even further afield. There is a story of the apostle Thomas in Paraguay in the oral tradition of the Guarani tribes.

"...The Paraguayan tribes they have this very curious tradition. They claim that a very holy man (Thomas the Apostle himself), whom they call "Paí Thome", lived amongst them and preached to them the Holy Truth, wandering and carrying a wooden cross on his back".—Quoted by Antonio Ruiz de Montoya: "Conquista espiritual hecha por los religiosos de la Compañía de Jesús en las provincias del Paraguay, Paraná, Uruguay y Tape", Chapter XVIII. Madrid (1639)."

Later apparent evidence was found for this when Miners found stones which on investigation seemed to have Hebrew characters written on them.

Thomas the Apostle - Wikipedia

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

This is more wishful thinking, I bet. Thomas went to India since earliest days, and initially the Americas were confused with India, or India was thought to lie just beyond them. In this way, Thomas' missionary work came to be associated with them. It is not dissimilar to Prester John, whose kingdom moved around depending on the needs or beliefs of the time.

The Conquistadors were keen on getting Thomas to have visited. If they were infidels that acted with knowledge of the gospel, it justified egregious actions against them.

Missionaries tried to get Thomas as an antecedent for them, or to associate 'good' local figures with Thomas. A good example here is that Quetzalcoatl, the feathered serpent of Mexico, was on occasion seen as an Euhemerisation of Thomas. This was more to place them under his protection, in opposition to the Conquistadors' enserfment of the Indians.

The problem is that this is so long ago that we cannot establish what was original myth, and what syncretic. The Spanish were also not above making things up, such as how they explained how to read Maya writings.
It is quite possible something like the Quetzalcoatl association was going on with the Guarani, or that a local name was misheard as Thome. We just cannot establish it.

If Thomas did visit, it had no marked effects.

 

[mindlight]

This is more wishful thinking, I bet. Thomas went to India since earliest days, and initially the Americas were confused with India, or India was thought to lie just beyond them. In this way, Thomas' missionary work came to be associated with them. It is not dissimilar to Prester John, whose kingdom moved around depending on the needs or beliefs of the time.

The Conquistadors were keen on getting Thomas to have visited. If they were infidels that acted with knowledge of the gospel, it justified egregious actions against them.

Missionaries tried to get Thomas as an antecedent for them, or to associate 'good' local figures with Thomas. A good example here is that Quetzalcoatl, the feathered serpent of Mexico, was on occasion seen as an Euhemerisation of Thomas. This was more to place them under his protection, in opposition to the Conquistadors' enserfment of the Indians.

The problem is that this is so long ago that we cannot establish what was original myth, and what syncretic. The Spanish were also not above making things up, such as how they explained how to read Maya writings.
It is quite possible something like the Quetzalcoatl association was going on with the Guarani, or that a local name was misheard as Thome. We just cannot establish it.

If Thomas did visit, it had no marked effects.

The lack of substantial fruit is the most powerful argument against this. Also it is a missionary technique to find a Christ like tradition in a cultures stories as a starting point for sharing the gospel. Thomas’ founding of the church in India is better documented.

But since the possibility is hinted at in Phillips story I must admit I wonder why not.

 

[anna ~ grace]

There are more recent, documented cases of Saints transporting / bilocating to the Americas to preach the a Gospel to the Native Indian tribes.

Mary of Jesus of Ágreda - Wikipedia

 

[mindlight]

There are more recent, documented cases of Saints transporting / bilocating to the Americas to preach the a Gospel to the Native Indian tribes.

Mary of Jesus of Ágreda - Wikipedia

My grandfather was a Texan. The story here seems to have physical confirmation and testable fruit in the willingness of the Jumano Indians to convert and their accounts of the lady in the blue bonnet. There are parallels in the modern world with Muslims having dreams of Christ leading them to salvation which they then recounted to visiting missionaries. But I notice the Catholic Church have still not made her a saint cause of their own doubts about the account.

 

[anna ~ grace]

My grandfather was a Texan. The story here seems to have physical confirmation and testable fruit in the willingness of the Jumano Indians to convert and their accounts of the lady in the blue bonnet. There are parallels in the modern world with Muslims having dreams of Christ leading them to salvation which they then recounted to visiting missionaries. But I notice the Catholic Church have still not made her a saint cause of their own doubts about the account.

Well, she has been declared Venerable by the Church.

It's also quite possible. I mean, if it happened to Philip, why not again?

 

[Resha Caner]

Uh huh. If God was in the habit of transporting missionaries around the world, why did he wait for Thomas? Why didn't he transport Abraham, Moses, or Isaiah?

Why did Jonah have to walk to Nineveh? Why didn't God just "poof" him there? Or give the great fish legs?

And why just the Americas? Why not China, Africa, Australia, Polynesia?

 

[mindlight]

Uh huh. If God was in the habit of transporting missionaries around the world, why did he wait for Thomas? Why didn't he transport Abraham, Moses, or Isaiah?

Why did Jonah have to walk to Nineveh? Why didn't God just "poof" him there? Or give the great fish legs?

And why just the Americas? Why not China, Africa, Australia, Polynesia?

The Phillip incident did effect Africa as it was an Ethiopian Jew he converted. You could say that Solomon had already laid the ground work there with the Queen of Sheba a thousand years before. That there were still believers in Ethiopia a millennium later meant that were worthy of Gods consideration and ready to receive the gospel.

It seems there is mainly a non supernatural continuity between root and branches. But every rule seems to have exceptions and maybe the Texan example is one of those. The actual sharing of the gospel is the moment of conversion but that God is at work in history to prepare a people for that moment does not seem far fetched to me. Also it is not impossible whether by angels or some kind of teleportation by the Spirit that that preparation sometimes involve the church.

Jonah was being tested. Previously God gave him words about Israels victories he was happy to share. But when God gave him a word that contradicted his nationalism he tried to run away from delivering it. The point about Jonahs story is that the journey to doing what God wanted transformed the prophet as well as bringing the Assyrian capital to its knees in repentance.

 

[Resha Caner]

The Phillip incident did effect Africa as it was an Ethiopian Jew he converted.

I think the passage in Acts is somewhat vague as to what actually happened, and people love to read all kinds of mystery into vague passages. Regardless, whatever happened to Phillip happened after his encounter with the Ethiopian. It wasn't that God poofed him from some other place in order to meet the Ethiopian.

You could say that Solomon had already laid the ground work there with the Queen of Sheba a thousand years before.

Apart from Solomon, the diaspora had a huge effect on spreading Judeo-Christian ideas around the world. There is, for example, a case that Jeremiah (and/or Baruch) went to Africa after Judah was taken into captivity.

... that God is at work in history to prepare a people for that moment does not seem far fetched to me.

It's not far-fetched at all. In fact, I believe God is at work in history. What makes me laugh is the Euro-centric nature of all these myths. God is not limited to working only through those with Nordic blood in their veins. If God wanted to witness to the people in Chile, he didn't need to poof Thomas there to do it. In fact, odds are that poofing Thomas there would have been more a hindrance than a help due to all the ethnic, vernacular and cultural issues.

An odd, but fascinating subgenre of history for me are the tiny evidences of God working around the world. One of my favorites is an obscure story tucked away in a journal about law during the Ottoman empire. It concerns the case of a Persian imam in the 1440s, who, upon discovering Christian texts in the Ottoman archives, suddenly began preaching Christ to his fellow Ottomans ... and without any contact with white Europeans, dead apostles, the KJV or visions of Mary.

But I think you're missing my point ... the fact that all these RCC myths are about Catholic saints doing amazing things. There's some subtle Euro-American exceptionalism buried in it all. Given the state of Christianity around the world, if God is going to poof someone from here to there to save the lost, it seems more likely to me he'll poof some Christian from Africa to the U.S. to save all the lost here.

 

[JackRT]

And then there is Mary's Holy House in Loretta Italy. Apparently it was carried from Turkey to Italy by angels with a brief layover somewhere in the Balkans. It is attested to by several popes and is a major shrine. Independent tests indicate that it is made of Italian brick.

THE MIRACLE OF THE HOLY HOUSE OF LORETO

But this house has competition in Ephesus Turkey.

House of Virgin Mary

Sometimes I just feel like going out and howling at the moon. Guess I'll have to wait till sundown.

 

[Root of Jesse]

My grandfather was a Texan. The story here seems to have physical confirmation and testable fruit in the willingness of the Jumano Indians to convert and their accounts of the lady in the blue bonnet. There are parallels in the modern world with Muslims having dreams of Christ leading them to salvation which they then recounted to visiting missionaries. But I notice the Catholic Church have still not made her a saint cause of their own doubts about the account.

She was elevated to "Venerable", maybe there's not enough about her life. It requires two verifiable miracles, now, to be recognized a saint. That doesn't mean she's not in heaven, and therefore a saint.
Regarding bilocation, there are verified bilocators, Padre Pio was one. Whether Thomas did or not, never heard of it.
I won't address the gobbledegook about the Spanish Conquistadors, as that is OT.