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Sr. Helen Prejean on Rachel Maddow tonight...

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Fantine, Jun 18, 2013.

  1. tenoreitaliano

    tenoreitaliano Neo-classical composer/singer/actor

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    The opera is absolutely cathartically gut wrenching. Sister Helen singing "He will gather us around" at the end gave me chills.
     
  2. WarriorAngel

    WarriorAngel I close my eyes and see you smile Supporter

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    Well - its curious why New Oxford review read the book and said she maintained their innocence and even told Williams she would tell his story [of his innocence].

    Is anyone familiar with how she wrote the book and if she maintained their innocence?
     
  3. WarriorAngel

    WarriorAngel I close my eyes and see you smile Supporter

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    It sometimes takes death for some to accept God - want God and convert in heart.

    Dead Man Walking - Reconciliation scene - YouTube

    I dont know the accuracy of the scene to the book. But like watching the Ted Bundy last interview - it is in fear - and knowing death is imminent that leads ppl to contrition and God.
    I take this away with me if this is true. No atheist in a foxhole.

    May all who served this sentence and converted in heart - be with God too.
     
  4. S.ilvio

    S.ilvio Newbie

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    Many, including myself view as very hypocritical, people who advocate pro life views for unborn babies while support or are agnostic of the Death Penalty...:)
     
  5. ZaidaBoBaida

    ZaidaBoBaida When do I stop being a Newbie?

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    There is a split second in the execution scene of Dead Man Walking where the reflections of the victims appears in the glass of the chamber. Did anyone else notice that? It was like a brief reminder of, "Don't forget what he did to get here..."
     
  6. Fantine

    Fantine Dona Quixote Supporter

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    Perhaps you're thinking about her second book, WA:

    From her website:
    I am sure she is drawing from her experience with other death row inmates she has counseled but not accompanied to their deaths as well.

    At her lecture, in the real life case of Patrick Sonnier, who murdered two teens with his brother, Sr. Helen said that his brother was the actual murderer but was able to make a plea bargain deal because he gave up the goods first. And so the killer is alive and the 'accessory,' guilty because he was there and participated in the rape, was executed.

    I enjoyed seeing her. So earthy and folksy and funny and wise. Once again she reminded me a little of Rosie O'Donnell, the big sister who'd protect you against all the bullies and be your champion. (Not that she is physically as big as O'Donnell; when you meet her, she is actually quite small and compact).
     
  7. S.ilvio

    S.ilvio Newbie

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    We all need one of those from time to time...:thumbsup:
     
  8. JimR-OCDS

    JimR-OCDS God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love

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    The Catholic Church teaches that the death penalty may be used in rare cases.

    In all, it's to protect the life of innocent people, including guards, prison staff and other inmates, from a ruthless killer.

    As it was pointed out, one of the people Sr Projean advocated against the death penalty for, had committed murder and was convicted. He then killed another prisoner while doing time for that murder, which he go a lesser sentence because he plea bargained. Once released, he then raped and murdered again.

    To allow this man to live, he would surely have harmed other people even while doing time in prison.


    In general, we should not use the death penalty, but when a convicted murderer continues to physically hurt people while in jail, sorry, to not put him to death is immoral.

    .

    Jim
     
  9. S.ilvio

    S.ilvio Newbie

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    State sponsored murder can never be justified in developed societies in my view...
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2013
  10. Rhamiel

    Rhamiel Member of the Round Table

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    to not put him to death is immoral?

    no, there are ways to protect others from violent inmates, keep the prisoner in solitary if you have to
    stop the revolving door of prisoners getting off on easy parol
    have life in prison MEAN life in prison!

    but you do not have to kill them!

    we are in the richest nation on earth! we can aford to keep them locked up for life.
     
  11. Rhamiel

    Rhamiel Member of the Round Table

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    very true

    this is not like the Old West, we have law and order, we have a stable society, we do not HAVE to put people to death anymore.

    the USA has some of the most liberal abortion laws and we use the death penalty more then any other developed nation, with Japan as the only other "first world nation" to have capital punishment.
    Egypt, Chine and India are regional powers but are not counted as "first world"

    Japan executes only about 2 or 3 people a year
    Capital punishment in Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Executions by Year | Death Penalty Information Center

    we have three times the population of Japan but exicute close to twenty times as many people :(

    and I hate to sound xenophobic or anything, but look at a list of countries that have the death penalty and ask yourself if you want to be in that "club"
     
  12. JimR-OCDS

    JimR-OCDS God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love

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    Killing in self-defense, which in some cases capital punishment is necessary for, i.e. defense of innocent people in society from a violent person, is not murder.

    Your definition makes the soldiers of WWII who killed Nazis, murderers.


    Jim
     
  13. JimR-OCDS

    JimR-OCDS God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love

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    Of course Japan has an entire different philosophy in how they incarcerate prisoners.

    Cons don't get to terrorize other convicts, guards and prison staff.

    They're not allowed to run gangs while doing time.

    They're not allowed to throw feces and semen at guards and staff.

    They're not allowed to have cable TV, weight-lifting gyms and ACLU advocates trying to get them out of prison, because they're reformed.

    The US prison system is in chaos. If only we'd admit it.

    Jim
     
  14. Rhamiel

    Rhamiel Member of the Round Table

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    I agree
    but I do not think we need to kill people in order to clean up this chaos

    we need systems in place, teaching job skills to non-violent criminals, I visited a minimum security prison that showed inmates how to work in the meat packing industry, I was in arms reach of prisoners with carving knives and meat hooks, and I did not feel afraid for a moment, they were non-violent criminals and they were working in the BEST paying prison job in the state of Ohio.

    The idea that inmates get to use the internet is silly
    we can have prison reform without killing people
     
  15. JimR-OCDS

    JimR-OCDS God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love

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    Rhamiel


    I'm not convinced, being we have a sub-culture of barbarians in this nation, who were raised with street gang mentality. Unlike Japan where social pressure not to dishonor the family name is still held in high regard, although not as high as in the past.

    We're talking about convicts who are doing life terms, verses using the death penalty. These convicts will never get out to use the trades they would learn in prison, and they know it. They have nothing to loose killing another convict or guard.

    I agree that those who will be released, rehabilitation is a good idea, for those convicts who embrace the idea. There are others, who have no use for learning anything other than who to get revenge on, once released.

    The fact that convicted murderers continue to kill while serving life sentences in prison, shows this philosophy to be unreasonable.

    Heck, there have been cases where gang leaders ordered contracts on people outside of prison.

    Until these people come to realize that killing is wrong, we'll have to have a system that defends innocent people, and in some cases, the death penalty may be required.

    Jim
     
  16. S.ilvio

    S.ilvio Newbie

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    Of course not...
     
  17. Rhamiel

    Rhamiel Member of the Round Table

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    the point of my telling the story of the men working on cutting up sides of beef was to show that not all prisoners have to be treated the same

    those who are violent can be cut off from all contact with others, we have the technology and the means and the structure to make it so.
    we just need the will to do it
     
  18. Rhamiel

    Rhamiel Member of the Round Table

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    I think he was objecting to your use of equating the execution of violent criminals with "state murder"

    when we look at Church history, even the history of biblical Israel
    there has been the use of the death penalty when needed

    it is not intrinsically evil.
    but in a modern nation that has rule of law, it is evil
     
  19. JimR-OCDS

    JimR-OCDS God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love

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    Well the only moral use of the death penalty, is to protect innocent life from a violent person, who has nothing to lose by hurting other people, which is the case for a person convicted for life.


    Jim
     
  20. MikeK

    MikeK Traditionalist Catholic

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    The only reason we are not able to defend guards and other inmates from dangerous inmates is that we have elected not to. If we vallued human life, we would not be allowing inmates to kill other inmates or guards nor would we be executing them. Putting someone in a permanent cell alone with their only acces to the outside word an endless supply of books might seem cruel, but it might be needed in some cases and is less cruel than state-sponsored murder.
     
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