Spiritually DRAGGING

E.C.

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*But ironically, E.C.'s spiritual father doesn't think it's the perfect parish so who knows.
I think my spiritual father knew my American chauvinism three years before it showed :doh:

(though to be fair is there such thing as a perfect parish?)


On a more serious note, I think that in this thread we're discussing what will ultimately be, in my opinion, the downfall of Orthodoxy in America: ethnocentrism and a failure to adapt. Yes, for now an American Orthodoxy seems to be taking hold, but will it last? After all, how much of the American Orthodox laity actually consider the old world home (cradle or convert)? This last weekend I was in Baltimore and went to Liturgy at an Antiochian parish of Arabs who acknowledge that they are Americanizing. Heck I, a Heinz 57 Yank, speak, read and write Arabic better than half the Arabs there! Yet, it was the first time since coming to the East Coast where I actually experienced a positive sense of being and "Thank God I'm Orthodox" gratitude. If not for the price of gas and lack of place to stay, I'd go there every weekend because of the lack of spiritual fulfillment in Hampton Roads.

Threads like this that have me thinking that only with chaplains can true American Orthodoxy be found.
 
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Anhelyna

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EC you said

On a more serious note, I think that in this thread we're discussing what will ultimately be, in my opinion, the downfall of Orthodoxy in America: ethnocentrism and a failure to adapt.

It can also be the downfall of the Eastern Catholic Churches too - and not only in the USA .

Here I do go to the Russian Orthodox Church occasionally - very little English is used there and I don't believe they are all Russian born - some have been in the UK for a loooong time. My own parish - it's very strong on resistance to using English - " we are Ukrainians and we use our language " OK - I don't really have a problem with that - but would they please teach their children the language ? As a gentleman of 40+ said to me on Sunday - "I'm really surprised at the poor grasp of English many of our people have and some have been in this country for over 40 years !!" Many of our people can't actually communicate with me ! Our previous Priest had been in the country for some 20 years - and his English was abysmal - I could not go to him for confession !
 
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~Anastasia~

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Hopefully not the downfall.

Though I do wonder what things will look like, and if they will become more homogenized, or if parishes will segregate into ethnic and non-ethnic ones.

I've visited several parishes that were almost all Americans. And I've visited some that were almost all ethnic. From only visiting, I can't say how well integrated people are, but they were always welcoming to me, and kind. Actually the coolest welcomes I've received have been at the more "Americanized" parishes, in a couple of cases (but certainly not all). Even that was not bad at all, just slightly less warm.

I know my own the best, of course. Which it is Greek, and maybe ... 70% ARE Greeks? Maybe half of those or just over from Greece. Some born in America. We have other ethnicities that have their "own" Churches, such as Ukranians and Ethiopian. And we have others from non-Orthodox countries, like Asians. The 30% non-Greek is mixed, with not that many of us being American. I'd say maybe 10% roughly.

But what will happen overall? I wonder. Many priests seem to say this is the worst problem of Orthodoxy in America.

And maybe my parish works so well for me with my priest being an American, formerly Baptist. The parishioners adore him though, and he's really wonderful. He married a Greek girl is how he came into Orthodoxy (his wife grew up in our parish - which I know is unusual for him to be sent here). So that seems to have worked very well for our parish.

I think my spiritual father knew my American chauvinism three years before it showed :doh:

(though to be fair is there such thing as a perfect parish?)


On a more serious note, I think that in this thread we're discussing what will ultimately be, in my opinion, the downfall of Orthodoxy in America: ethnocentrism and a failure to adapt. Yes, for now an American Orthodoxy seems to be taking hold, but will it last? After all, how much of the American Orthodox laity actually consider the old world home (cradle or convert)? This last weekend I was in Baltimore and went to Liturgy at an Antiochian parish of Arabs who acknowledge that they are Americanizing. Heck I, a Heinz 57 Yank, speak, read and write Arabic better than half the Arabs there! Yet, it was the first time since coming to the East Coast where I actually experienced a positive sense of being and "Thank God I'm Orthodox" gratitude. If not for the price of gas and lack of place to stay, I'd go there every weekend because of the lack of spiritual fulfillment in Hampton Roads.

Threads like this that have me thinking that only with chaplains can true American Orthodoxy be found.
 
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I've said it before that if Americans REALLY heard what Orthodoxy is all about:

a loving God, not an angry wrathful one full of laws and retribution
Christ dying to crush death rather than dying to appease honor codes
Adam and Eve expelled to protect them rather than in punishment
leavened bread showing fullness rather than unleavened and lacking
sin as missing the mark rather than sin representing legal fall-out
sacraments as medicine rather than sacraments as legalism
no "system" to be "saved," but a WALK with God to be like our Father
worship with our whole bodies meaning something, not obligations
prayers for relationship, not prayers to stave off
being children of Pascha, not children of Good Friday
Jesus' whole ministry saving, not just one moment of it.....

I think if people KNEW what Orthodoxy taught, you'd have skeptics, atheists, people who believe in God but who are FED UP with hypocrisy and harsh teachings, all of them might come home!

But alas, the WORST thing about Orthodoxy is their inability and lack of concern to spread Christ's Church. I marvel at the breath-taking apathy when it comes to missionary zeal. I look at how Anglicans are trying to church-build and how these Mormons want to spread their faith, and I ask what spiritual fruits are NOT being harvested in our Orthodox hearts to make us treat our church like country clubs? It is 100% unacceptable and silly that anybody should have to drive 1, 2, 3, and 4 hours to get to an Orthodox parish. My church is rich, make no mistake. We spend $$$ like we're printing it in the basement. Father won't bat an eye at spending $75,000 on new iconography for our dome, but could we take that $75,000 and spend it on missionary efforts? Our parish temple has TONS of lovely icons already. When is enough enough? I ADORE icons!!! I just love them! And theologically I see them to be powerful tools! But at what point can we back off aesthetics and other less essential things and iconography, etc. and put our money into the kitty to church-build and spread the word? We speak big words about how wrong those Catholics are with their filioque and liturgical errors and fundamental theological missteps, and we talk about the dangers of Protestantism, but do we put our money where our mouth is?

Mostly what I hear from Orthodox is excuses as to why it won't work. "There aren't enough Greeks or Serbs, Russians, or other Orthodox in that town to start a church." Can you imagine if Blessed Paul, or Sts. Cyrill of Methodius had thought like that? Ay yay yay....

When I've complained in TAW, I've had people say, "look, Gurney, what have YOU done to grow the church, mate!" Well, I've made several overtures to Father that sputtered and died. I've contacted a missionary priest and he played this absurd phone tag with me and email tag for about two months straight before it became clear he wasn't serious! In the end, BISHOPS need to be on board, priests, lay folks, and it just seems there isn't the will.

So between a lack of real missionary zeal coupled with the refusal to break out of the ethnic pandering, we are in some trouble. I credit the internet (which everyone bashes!) with more missionary umph than anything in the past few years!

Last year we had this couple come to our parish to speak in front of everyone at coffee hour to seek donations $$$. They are trying to "re-Orthodoxize" Albania. They want to take all our $$$ and use it to bring Orthodoxy back to that country. I'm sitting there astonished thinking, "uh, DUH, guys, I've been asking for help to build an Orthodox parish in VISALIA, 50 miles from y'all here in central California where there are like 10 Orthodox people out of 125,000 and you're worried about Albania? Hello? Anyone?"

I hope things change. I truly do.


I think my spiritual father knew my American chauvinism three years before it showed :doh:

(though to be fair is there such thing as a perfect parish?)


On a more serious note, I think that in this thread we're discussing what will ultimately be, in my opinion, the downfall of Orthodoxy in America: ethnocentrism and a failure to adapt. Yes, for now an American Orthodoxy seems to be taking hold, but will it last? After all, how much of the American Orthodox laity actually consider the old world home (cradle or convert)? This last weekend I was in Baltimore and went to Liturgy at an Antiochian parish of Arabs who acknowledge that they are Americanizing. Heck I, a Heinz 57 Yank, speak, read and write Arabic better than half the Arabs there! Yet, it was the first time since coming to the East Coast where I actually experienced a positive sense of being and "Thank God I'm Orthodox" gratitude. If not for the price of gas and lack of place to stay, I'd go there every weekend because of the lack of spiritual fulfillment in Hampton Roads.

Threads like this that have me thinking that only with chaplains can true American Orthodoxy be found.
 
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ArmyMatt

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But alas, the WORST thing about Orthodoxy is their inability and lack of concern to spread Christ's Church. I marvel at the breath-taking apathy when it comes to missionary zeal.

yeah that is a pain, if that is where you want your focus, how about talk to a friend or close family member who might have some interest? I can't tell you how many lines I had to throw at Ft Campbell before I got a buddy to take a bite (over a 4 year period), and even though I am not there, we are still talking.

if you think of anyone you know from where you live, just open something up about something Church wise that they might be interested in.
 
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ArmyMatt

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For the first 1,000 years when Catholic and Orthodox were one, the West never had the Divine Liturgy, and they were fully Orthodox, just Western.

one of my buddies here in school is looking into ancient Western Liturgical traditions, and another is very pro Western Rite. I imagine as more Western Christians become Orthodox, that will happen. Fr Seraphim Rose was very into finding Western Orthodox saints because he was of English, French, and Dutch decent. St John often used the West's Orthodox past as a way to missionize.
 
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Joseph Hazen

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Gurney, I still don't have much advice for you, but I pray for you often. The only thing I've thought of is maybe encouraging you to look at Western expressions of Orthodoxy. This site has lots of resources, including prayers you could say at home (Morning and Evening Prayer, prayers before meals, even something called the Salutations to the Cross which I think are a pre-cursor to the Stations of the Cross). But that's a temporary measure and I'm not sure if it will make you feel more isolated or if it might help satisfy your Western-love (which I get sometimes too. Sometimes the love of Western Expressions is almost an ache. This satisfies it for me though, but everyone is different). Maybe try?

As far as Visalia getting a church goes, at this point I would tell you to be patient, but there's an end in sight. I graduate in a little less than three years now (God willing) and right now the plan, as discussed with Father back home and our Bishop, is for me to try to start a parish in Visalia. Whether I might be ordained sooner rather than later (or ever) when I get back, I don't know - that's up to God and the Bishop. But the plan is to start a parish in Visalia.

That might be worse news than ever to you, I don't know! But I still pray for you and your family.
 
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I've said it before that if Americans REALLY heard what Orthodoxy is all about:

a loving God, not an angry wrathful one full of laws and retribution
Christ dying to crush death rather than dying to appease honor codes
Adam and Eve expelled to protect them rather than in punishment
leavened bread showing fullness rather than unleavened and lacking
sin as missing the mark rather than sin representing legal fall-out
sacraments as medicine rather than sacraments as legalism
no "system" to be "saved," but a WALK with God to be like our Father
worship with our whole bodies meaning something, not obligations
prayers for relationship, not prayers to stave off
being children of Pascha, not children of Good Friday
Jesus' whole ministry saving, not just one moment of it.....

I think if people KNEW what Orthodoxy taught, you'd have skeptics, atheists, people who believe in God but who are FED UP with hypocrisy and harsh teachings, all of them might come home!

:clap:

That's absolutely beautiful, Gurney. See, there you go again, encouraging me! This is why I LOVE the Church - it is only through Orthodoxy that I have learned these things, and it has revolutionized my whole walk.

(And you don't know how badly I need it today - My car is wanting to break down, not sure I can fix it, my daughter's car has been stranded at her school 40 minutes away for almost 2 weeks, my husband is working out of state, and I --- I am supposed to be baptized soon, and I NEED the Church --- but this morning I am feeling at the end of my rope, if I can't get there - so THANK YOU - I guess my problems are "first world" but it's still discouraging.)

See, you don't know how wonderful it is that you see and can articulate these things. And you are SO right!

My priest is very upset about that very thing. And I guess it's not THAT bad here, since within 2 hours' drive there are, I think, 5 Greek parishes and missions, and 1 Antiochian. The reason for changing my Baptism date was that Father is going to be out of town to consecrate a new Church in a week and a half.

If the economy wasn't so terrible here, I'd tell you that you should move here. :p The school system is not as bad as you experience either, as far as I can tell.

I don't know if it's just our priest, or the area, or what, but Fr. M. is very concerned with evangelism. (Having been Baptist may influence that?) Tonight we are having the last of a series of 4-week classes for the community to learn about our Church, as a follow-up from the Greek Festival. We had over a dozen people come at first, and some of them are now bringing friends. Last week over 50 people came (though some were parishioners). In a city of 50K, that's probably not too shabby. :)

(And our parish is NOT rich. We do have an endowment, but it is not liquid, and we operate under a deficit that Father is trying to close. We really have no spendable money to do anything, I think.)

But you are right - Orthodoxy needs to do outreach. As for America, most people here are Americans, so it ought not be an ethnic thing, and it's a barrier that people see it as such.

And those that are held in the status quo that aren't interested in going out - well, I've also heard that as being a great weakness of the Orthodox Church, and see it as so.

Your list is wonderful. If we could just get THAT in people's hands, or help them understand. I may talk to Fr. M. about it, since he has been looking for suggestions.

You remain in my prayers, dear brother. I'm so very sorry that you are having such difficulties, but in reading your post here - you are so right that THIS is what Orthodoxy has to offer. I hope you can reach some spiritual level of comfort without having to give up Orthodoxy.



But alas, the WORST thing about Orthodoxy is their inability and lack of concern to spread Christ's Church. I marvel at the breath-taking apathy when it comes to missionary zeal. I look at how Anglicans are trying to church-build and how these Mormons want to spread their faith, and I ask what spiritual fruits are NOT being harvested in our Orthodox hearts to make us treat our church like country clubs? It is 100% unacceptable and silly that anybody should have to drive 1, 2, 3, and 4 hours to get to an Orthodox parish. My church is rich, make no mistake. We spend $$$ like we're printing it in the basement. Father won't bat an eye at spending $75,000 on new iconography for our dome, but could we take that $75,000 and spend it on missionary efforts? Our parish temple has TONS of lovely icons already. When is enough enough? I ADORE icons!!! I just love them! And theologically I see them to be powerful tools! But at what point can we back off aesthetics and other less essential things and iconography, etc. and put our money into the kitty to church-build and spread the word? We speak big words about how wrong those Catholics are with their filioque and liturgical errors and fundamental theological missteps, and we talk about the dangers of Protestantism, but do we put our money where our mouth is?

Mostly what I hear from Orthodox is excuses as to why it won't work. "There aren't enough Greeks or Serbs, Russians, or other Orthodox in that town to start a church." Can you imagine if Blessed Paul, or Sts. Cyrill of Methodius had thought like that? Ay yay yay....

When I've complained in TAW, I've had people say, "look, Gurney, what have YOU done to grow the church, mate!" Well, I've made several overtures to Father that sputtered and died. I've contacted a missionary priest and he played this absurd phone tag with me and email tag for about two months straight before it became clear he wasn't serious! In the end, BISHOPS need to be on board, priests, lay folks, and it just seems there isn't the will.

So between a lack of real missionary zeal coupled with the refusal to break out of the ethnic pandering, we are in some trouble. I credit the internet (which everyone bashes!) with more missionary umph than anything in the past few years!

Last year we had this couple come to our parish to speak in front of everyone at coffee hour to seek donations $$$. They are trying to "re-Orthodoxize" Albania. They want to take all our $$$ and use it to bring Orthodoxy back to that country. I'm sitting there astonished thinking, "uh, DUH, guys, I've been asking for help to build an Orthodox parish in VISALIA, 50 miles from y'all here in central California where there are like 10 Orthodox people out of 125,000 and you're worried about Albania? Hello? Anyone?"

I hope things change. I truly do.
 
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Dorothea

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Anybody left on TAW who is a happy Orthodox Christian?
I don't think it has to do with not being happy that we're Orthodox Christians. I love my faith and Church. I just am in a spiritual funk like gurney is. I still pray and go to church and read periodically spiritual books such as lives of Saints and the Bible. It's just that I am struggling with the same thing gurney is. No surprise though for what's going on in our lives at this time. I just keep contact with God no matter my feelings of being sick of talking about Orthodoxy. I don't feel the need to talk about it anymore or have debates with people. I don't care to anymore.
 
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Dorothea

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I'm sorry if my frustrations, spiritual funk, and burned-out journey lately has affected this forum or you, Xenia. I guess I just didn't know who to turn to. I'm on my own a lot, and in my "real life" I don't know ANY Orthodox Christians! The only ones I know are an hour away. Around my town, if you tell someone you're Orthodox, they say, "Oh wow, didn't know you were Jewish! Cool!" So I came on here to vent a bit and just bounce my thoughts off people, try to relate or, heck, I don't know.

If my sharing has hurt anyone or caused a damper to be laid down on anyone, a veil of bad feelings, I truly do apologize.

People, yourself included, have been VERY kind to me in this thread. For that, I'm most grateful. I'm not sure where I'm headed or what I'll do. I'm just sick of this whole thing right now, but I'm hungry for God and anxious to quit feeling this way. But the minute I think of my parish, the whole dynamic, I just want to sign and hang my head. And the Greek parish is ultra drab, uninspiring, super quick and unengaging liturgy, and I'd still have to drive and be Mr. Mom.

Please accept my apology if I've spread a negative vibe. I'm not trying to do so, just trying to discuss my own funk. You're a great Orthodox Christian. I wish I could be more like you.

God's blessings in ICXC.
I don't mean to sound selfish, but I'm glad you shared your feelings. For how I've been feeling, it's nice to know I'm not alone and that it's relatively normal to feel like this at times. :hug:
 
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Dorothea

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There are moments when I go to coffee hour and see these girls dressed in Serbian getups, hear Russian all around the place, hear my priest speak Slavonic in the liturgy for blessings, watch Anglo Western red-blooded Americans trying to act Russian, and I just shake my head saying, "Lord, return me to St. Patrick, St. Francis, and the West! What am I doing here!?" then I calm down, put my feelings to the side, suck it up, and keep on truckin'....but I still have those nagging "these aren't my saints. I'm not Russian or Serb, Greek or Bulgarian. I'm Western." I can't help it. I just fight those feelings off.

Sometimes we can't help the way we feel I guess. Like I said, I'll take Ash Wednesday ANYDAY over Forgiveness Vespers. That was something even my wife didn't like at all. Yet 9 out of 10 Orthodox tell me it's absolutely Earth-shattering, moving, touching, and really powerful for them. So, it must be ME! When people were thrilled at Pentecost, I was about ready to fall over dead from the 3.5 hour liturgy. I was told Pascha was the ULTIMATE liturgy. It was ok, but I didn't think it meant any more to me than Easter Morning Mass as a Catholic. I actually liked Mass better for Easter because it was short enough that I could feel the power of the Resurrection and the excitement of it all and hear and understand the readings and sermon. At my parish, John's blood-curdling yelling overpowers all listening for me, and the sermons are so long I get glazed in the eyes and zone out. And the length of Pascha, the lateness of it, the exhaustion, I didn't feel what others feel. I personally think I'm just a bad guy for not having the same reaction. It's not Orthodoxy, it's me.

So please know that these ARE my feelings, but I'm 100% willing to say that I'm just a bad dude with a bad heart who is not as receptive as the rest of you good folks. I'm just not reacting as I should. I'm VERY much more intellectual about Orthodoxy, and not as emotional or excited about it. What has kept me grounded is seeing my two handsome little boys wearing their robes being altar boys. I have tried to hang in there for them. As for me, I'm just a religious failure....
Aww, gurney, don't feel that way about yourself. I can see it was a great adjustment, commitment, and change for you and your family to Orthodoxy. You haven't been in the Church very long, and it's normal to have all these feelings, I think.

I do think the ethnic stuff really does cause problems for people who are not from whatever said ethnic background that its name is connected to the church and came from that Orthodox country's background. I felt like that two Sundays ago at the Greek Church we go to. While listening to everything half in English and half in Greek (including the homily) and then the singing the Greek National Anthem in the Church and kids practicing Greek poems and doing the presentation in the Church.... even before it got to all of that, during the liturgy, I found myself saying "This is not Greece." This coming from a person who's 50% Greek, but I didn't grow up in the Greek Orthodox Church, nor in Greece, so I'm basically more of a military brat really. It's a lot more ethnic here in the New England area, and that was quite an eye opener when we moved here in the summer of 2013. It's taken a while to acclimate and still, we feel Orthodoxy would spread much better if there was an American Orthodox Church and just a small part of the ethnic roots. I know that probably bothers many here, but that's just how I have felt since confronted with it. This is America and every country that has Orthodoxy as their national or whatever religion, it's done in their language and their traditions. Just wish it was like that here more.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Funny, the older Greeks at our Church say it should be American. I almost hated to hear that, because I do love the sound of the Greek chanting, and some of the singing. Then again, that may be because one of our chanters (the one who is Greek) is first-rate.

But for the sake of the Church itself, and those who would join, and not my own preference .... I am thinking they are right. I see nothing wrong with small "pockets" for those who wish to keep their ethnic roots. But the Church for the most part, in America, should probably BE Americanized.

If it happens though, I admit that I hope there is a Greek parish or mission close enough that I can visit. I would miss it if I never got to hear it again. (And our parish is oh-so-slowly converting to slightly more English - VERY slowly)
 
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Dorothea

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Funny, the older Greeks at our Church say it should be American. I almost hated to hear that, because I do love the sound of the Greek chanting, and some of the singing. Then again, that may be because one of our chanters (the one who is Greek) is first-rate.

But for the sake of the Church itself, and those who would join, and not my own preference .... I am thinking they are right. I see nothing wrong with small "pockets" for those who wish to keep their ethnic roots. But the Church for the most part, in America, should probably BE Americanized.

If it happens though, I admit that I hope there is a Greek parish or mission close enough that I can visit. I would miss it if I never got to hear it again. (And our parish is oh-so-slowly converting to slightly more English - VERY slowly)
It's pretty, but it's not helpful for those who don't speak or understand the language...Greek, in this case, for here in America.

My sons and I attend the local Antiochian Church at times since it's all in English except for a couple of lines in Arabic for the Holy God, Holy Mighty hymn.
 
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~Anastasia~

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It's pretty, but it's not helpful for those who don't speak or understand the language...Greek, in this case, for here in America.

My sons and I attend the local Antiochian Church at times since it's all in English except for a couple of lines in Arabic for the Holy God, Holy Mighty hymn.

Just my own idiosyncrasy.

I love languages, and Greek has been the one I've been most interested in learning next (and maybe the last one - I'd add Hebrew after that, but I don't feel up for it anymore - and I still need to work on Vietnamese).

But for years I've been looking up words in the Greek in the Bible, and trying to be sure I understand as well as I can from that. As well as having taught some basic Greek (along with Latin - roots only, no grammar) to my daughter when I homeschooled her. So I have a starting vocabulary, but my grammar is pathetic, LOL.

But I probably have much more appreciation and desire for it than the average person would. I just love languages. But I'm starting to wind down on that somewhat.

Especially ones that require their own alphabet. I've forgotten too much Japanese. My head only holds so much, I think. ;)
 
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Thanks, Dot. You know, I was afraid to say anything in here for fear of a royal smack-down, but it didn't happen, and actually I'm STEADILY, SLOWLY feeling better. I think the support has helped, and ESPECIALLY the prayers! I truly believe in prayer, and the prayers people have offered up for me are FELT. Matt is right that we're all a mystical family, and our prayers and concerns for one another DO mean something.

I think you and I'll survive this, just have to accept the reality that we can't feel perky-lerky about things all the time. It's nice to know that if we vent a little or say we're fried on something, we won't get beheaded! ^_^ I think that speaks well of TAW these days.

I don't mean to sound selfish, but I'm glad you shared your feelings. For how I've been feeling, it's nice to know I'm not alone and that it's relatively normal to feel like this at times. :hug:
 
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I teach a LOT of Greek and Latin in my sixth grade class. I was doing it a decade before Common Core mentioned it! My kids usually know about 40 Greek and 40-50 Latin roots and phrases by the end of the year. It really opens their eyes to building words in our English language.

Personally, I am fluent in Spanish. I have a bilingual Spanish BCLAD teaching credential and am licensed to teach in Spanish in 50 states. I know a touch bit of Tagalog, my wife's language (which is NIGHTMARISH to learn!), and now my real interest is Russian! Very cool language. I dig it completely.

I think for me, the languages of Orthodoxy ROCK! I love them! Like I said, I like some of the old Slavonic, but for me, the ethnic stuff that I find off-putting is the "there were no Serbian war crimes WHATSOEVER" and "Putin is always right, standing up to NATO! Good for him!" That total leap before you look wholehearted adoration of anything Eastern and the West is always the baddie, that bugs me. The languages I find awesome! I like Russian people. Our parish has more of them than anything. The food is great, the women are beautiful, they are funny, good listeners, and very very friendly, religious folks. I like 'em. I just don't like the political apologetics stuff. Weird!

Just my own idiosyncrasy.

I love languages, and Greek has been the one I've been most interested in learning next (and maybe the last one - I'd add Hebrew after that, but I don't feel up for it anymore - and I still need to work on Vietnamese).

But for years I've been looking up words in the Greek in the Bible, and trying to be sure I understand as well as I can from that. As well as having taught some basic Greek (along with Latin - roots only, no grammar) to my daughter when I homeschooled her. So I have a starting vocabulary, but my grammar is pathetic, LOL.

But I probably have much more appreciation and desire for it than the average person would. I just love languages. But I'm starting to wind down on that somewhat.

Especially ones that require their own alphabet. I've forgotten too much Japanese. My head only holds so much, I think. ;)
 
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I feel your pain. While our liturgy is 95% in English with some Slavonic thrown in here and there, I get a little tired of us praying for Kosovo y metohija each week. Uh, hello, there are other countries out there than SERBIA!!!! We had this ongoing $$$$ aid request going on to help when there was flooding in Serbia. What about flooding in the Philippines? Flooding in Thailand? What about $$$$ to help our poor Orthodox brethren in the Middle East being slaughtered like cattle...or Copts in Egypt? What about $$$ to go to Africa to fight ebola? Why just Serbia? There is a Serbian flag in our church, too.

The funny thing is, Father will even bring it up, that there are only A TINY HANDFULL of Serbs left in our parish! Father says most became atheists or Protestant or fell away completely to apathy! The Russians and Anglo converts are the vast majority. It's hilarious! And yet Serbia this, Serbia that! LOL

Aww, gurney, don't feel that way about yourself. I can see it was a great adjustment, commitment, and change for you and your family to Orthodoxy. You haven't been in the Church very long, and it's normal to have all these feelings, I think.

I do think the ethnic stuff really does cause problems for people who are not from whatever said ethnic background that its name is connected to the church and came from that Orthodox country's background. I felt like that two Sundays ago at the Greek Church we go to. While listening to everything half in English and half in Greek (including the homily) and then the singing the Greek National Anthem in the Church and kids practicing Greek poems and doing the presentation in the Church.... even before it got to all of that, during the liturgy, I found myself saying "This is not Greece." This coming from a person who's 50% Greek, but I didn't grow up in the Greek Orthodox Church, nor in Greece, so I'm basically more of a military brat really. It's a lot more ethnic here in the New England area, and that was quite an eye opener when we moved here in the summer of 2013. It's taken a while to acclimate and still, we feel Orthodoxy would spread much better if there was an American Orthodox Church and just a small part of the ethnic roots. I know that probably bothers many here, but that's just how I have felt since confronted with it. This is America and every country that has Orthodoxy as their national or whatever religion, it's done in their language and their traditions. Just wish it was like that here more.
 
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Of course it's not worse news for me, you goofball!!! LOL....My prayers for you, Joseph, that seminary is a blessing, you can weather the tough storms of it, and come out the other end ordained, blessed, and happy! Keep on truckin'....

Thanks for the prayers. You'll have one supporter for the Visalia mission when you DO get going on it!

Gurney, I still don't have much advice for you, but I pray for you often. The only thing I've thought of is maybe encouraging you to look at Western expressions of Orthodoxy. This site has lots of resources, including prayers you could say at home (Morning and Evening Prayer, prayers before meals, even something called the Salutations to the Cross which I think are a pre-cursor to the Stations of the Cross). But that's a temporary measure and I'm not sure if it will make you feel more isolated or if it might help satisfy your Western-love (which I get sometimes too. Sometimes the love of Western Expressions is almost an ache. This satisfies it for me though, but everyone is different). Maybe try?

As far as Visalia getting a church goes, at this point I would tell you to be patient, but there's an end in sight. I graduate in a little less than three years now (God willing) and right now the plan, as discussed with Father back home and our Bishop, is for me to try to start a parish in Visalia. Whether I might be ordained sooner rather than later (or ever) when I get back, I don't know - that's up to God and the Bishop. But the plan is to start a parish in Visalia.

That might be worse news than ever to you, I don't know! But I still pray for you and your family.
 
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