Discussion Spiritual Warfare

[Carl Emerson]

Okay.

But it says "We wrestle NOT flesh and blood..."
So, I'm confused by your answer.

It seems Sunlover is struggling to be in agreement with you.

I see no scriptures that contest the principle established in Job that refutes Satan and his kingdom are free agents to do whatever they propose.

 

[ARBITER01]

In fact, maybe you're right, we need some scripture on this. Old Testament first,...

Exo 22:18 "You shall not permit a sorceress to live.

- Original: כּשׁף
- Transliteration: Kashaph
- Phonetic: kaw-shaf'
- Definition:
1. (Piel) to practice witchcraft or sorcery, use witchcraft
a. sorcerer, sorceress (participle)
- Origin: a primitive root
- TWOT entry: 1051
- Part(s) of speech: Verb

- Strong's: A primitive root; properly to whisper a spell that is to inchant or practise magic: - sorcerer (use) witch (-craft).

Now let's look at NT examples of this,...

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

- Original: φαρμακεία
- Transliteration: Pharmakeia
- Phonetic: far-mak-i'-ah
- Definition:
1. the use or the administering of drugs
2. poisoning
3. sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it
4. metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry
- Origin: from G5332
- TDNT entry: None
- Part(s) of speech: Noun Feminine

- Strong's: From G5332; medication (pharmacy) that is (by extension) magic (literal or figurative): - sorcery witchcraft.

Similar definition!!!

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

There are a couple other instances mentioned in the NT, but it is identified as something obviously GOD is against, and rightfully so.

 

[ARBITER01]

It seems Sunlover is struggling to be in agreement with you.

I see no scriptures that contest the principle established in Job that refutes Satan and his kingdom are free agents to do whatever they propose.

I think you're under the delusion that these people are limited in their endeavors, they are not. Satan might be, but these people have no limitation imposed upon them.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The same principle is confirmed in 1 Cor 10

13
No temptation has overtaken you except something common to mankind; and God is faithful, so He will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I think you're under the delusion that these people are limited in their endeavors, they are not. Satan might be, but these people have no limitation imposed upon them.

Who is their father and where does their power come from?

 

[Carl Emerson]

I think you're under the delusion that these people are limited in their endeavors, they are not. Satan might be, but these people have no limitation imposed upon them.

Really...

The power encounters recorded concerning Moses and Elijah suggests the opposite.

 

[ARBITER01]

The same principle is confirmed in 1 Cor 10

13
No temptation has overtaken you except something common to mankind; and God is faithful, so He will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

I don't disagree with this scripture, GOD does make a way for us, and has every time, but if you think they can't ever touch you or impact your job and the people around you,...... you're being very naïve.

 

[ARBITER01]

Really...

The power encounters recorded concerning Moses and Elijah suggests the opposite.

Really,...

GOD was just more powerful through them, but they had no limitations upon them that satan might have.

 

[ARBITER01]

Who is their father and where does their power come from?

Everyone born into this world is attached to satan being that we are a fallen race like he is,... that is until a person becomes born again.

This world was given to mankind for dominion, not angels.

 

[Carl Emerson]

So Satan being their father says nothing about what authority they have to act?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Paul certainly records limits being placed on those practicing spiritual wickedness...

Acts 16
16 It happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a slave woman who had a spirit of divination met us, who was bringing great profit to her masters by fortune-telling. 17 She followed Paul and us and cried out repeatedly, saying, “These men are bond-servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you a way of salvation.” 18 Now she continued doing this for many days. But Paul was greatly annoyed, and he turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!” And it came out at that very moment.

 

[ARBITER01]

So Satan being their father says nothing about what authority they have to act?

No.

Most people that get involved in witchcraft are learning it for personal advantage, whether it be in their finances, love life, etc. They are complete individual agents just learning certain skills for selfish gain. Satan is not in the picture of this at this point. Demonic beings can be leading a person along this path, yes, but people involved in this are only out for their own ambitions.

Later on, a person involved in this could possibly get wise to satan's influence and presence, but sorcery/witchcraft are personal endeavors for the most part, as is depicted in the NT. It's only a certain few that become dedicated enough to think they can come against GOD's elect.

 

[ARBITER01]

Paul certainly records limits being placed on those practicing spiritual wickedness...

Acts 16
16 It happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a slave woman who had a spirit of divination met us, who was bringing great profit to her masters by fortune-telling. 17 She followed Paul and us and cried out repeatedly, saying, “These men are bond-servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you a way of salvation.” 18 Now she continued doing this for many days. But Paul was greatly annoyed, and he turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!” And it came out at that very moment.

You need to do better than that.

 

[Carl Emerson]

You need to do better than that.

I already have - I cited Moses and Elijah - in fact the Bible of full of examples of the wicked being frustrated by God and His servants - not just spiritual powers as you suggest.

 

[ARBITER01]

I already have - I cited Moses and Elijah - in fact the Bible of full of examples of the wicked being frustrated by God and His servants - not just spiritual powers as you suggest.

Did I say that?

 

[ARBITER01]

General question...

If The Holy Spirit used the discerning of spirits gift to reveal the outline of a big evil spirit in your church, what would you do? How would you handle that?

 

[Carl Emerson]

General question...

If The Holy Spirit used the discerning of spirits gift to reveal the outline of a big evil spirit in your church, what would you do? How would you handle that?

Depends on the Church...

Last time I was given some discernment about a church I prayed about it for 12 months then delivered the insight in writing.

The matter was not resolved so we had to leave.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Did I say that?

This is what you said....

I think you're under the delusion that these people are limited in their endeavors, they are not. Satan might be, but these people have no limitation imposed upon them.

Sorry but this is just wrong...

No Sodom and Gomorrah then...

No Ananias and Sapphira then...

God can and does soveriegnly act against the endevours of the wicked when He so chooses.

 

[ARBITER01]

This is what you said....



Sorry but this is just wrong...

No Sodom and Gomorrah then...

No Ananias and Sapphira then...

God can and does soveriegnly act against the endevours of the wicked when He so chooses.

I think you and I are talking past each other, and it's best that we agree to disagree on this particular viewpoint.

 

[Francis Drake]

It seems Sunlover is struggling to be in agreement with you.

I see no scriptures that contest the principle established in Job that refutes Satan and his kingdom are free agents to do whatever they propose.

Lots of people like to use Job as a comparison, yet forget what God said about the man.
Job1v8Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?”

As God said, "there is none like him on the earth!" As such, Job was the prime target that Satan had to destroy if he was to dominate the earth. Despite the disastrous effect on his family, God chose to use Job to demonstrate that the earth did not belong to Satan as long as there were people like Job around.
That does not mean God does the same with all Christians, any more than he demands all Christians to sacrifice their sons on the mountain top.