Spiritual Growth?

[importunity]

We use the term spiritual growth? Is that a correct statement or is our spirit already made complete? The scriptures used for growth have to do with the mind, so is the term spiritual growth correct?

 

[KingZzub]

I don't think it is - I think we should use the phrase mental development, or renewing the mind or restoring the soul.

Casey Treat preached a brilliant sermon here in London in May which basically said "Christians don't have spiritual problems, just mental ones". I have it on DVD, it is really powerful.

Blessings,
Ben

 

[importunity]

You are absolutely right. 10 years before brother Hagin went to be with the Lord a friend of mind told me that he was going to rewrite that book he wrote on spiritual growth because he really thought the same thing. He said he thought it would be confusing. My friend (Buzzy) has since gone on to be with the Lord.

Blessings to you my friend

 

[IKTCA]

Which Bible passages show that I have a fully grown spirit in me? I am not familiar with this subject.

I have a different view. Let me use myself as an example (but it applies to all believers).

When I pray (more than when I work for bread), my spirit unites with the Holy Spirit. That's the time when the Lord (actually the Holy Spirit) speaks to me most. Sometimes, he gives encouraging words. Other times, he gives messages. Often he makes me remember Bible words as answers. These indicate that I continue to grow prayer after prayer.

If my spirit is complete, I will not need Jesus or the Holy Spirit, because my soul can learn everything from my spirit. Since my spirit and my soul are always communicating, I don't even have to be in prayer for my spirit to talk to my soul. But we all know God speaks to us most often when we are in prayer.

I am curious to know why Hagin said so. I have read his books, and I know he is a believer of sound mind, mightily used by the Lord.

 

[PastorJoey]

We use the term spiritual growth? Is that a correct statement or is our spirit already made complete? The scriptures used for growth have to do with the mind, so is the term spiritual growth correct?

In answer to your question...Yes, our spirit is complete, just as complete as a new born baby is complete. But mature? No. Got some growing to do? Yes. We grow in wisdom, grace, understanding, revelation knowledge, the fruit of the Spirit is developed in us, etc...

To me there is nothing confusing about this. A baby is complete, but there are many things I wouldn't expect a baby to know or understand.

So complete doesn't necessarily mean mature.

1 Peter 2:2 KJV
(2) As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

The "baby" that is mentioned here is not talking about the mind. but the newborn spirit. The bible is God speaking to "us" the spirit being.

This is what I think about it anyways...

 

[ewkenyon2]

You are absolutely right. 10 years before brother Hagin went to be with the Lord a friend of mind told me that he was going to rewrite that book he wrote on spiritual growth because he really thought the same thing. He said he thought it would be confusing. My friend (Buzzy) has since gone on to be with the Lord.

rick, what caused me to stop & take the time to send off a quick reply, is the mention of a mutual friend, pastor buzzy sutherlin.

two days before his passing from here to heaven, he had called me & left a message for me to return his call, to which i was unable, thus my heart was grieved over missing his call.

just today, i was listening to a teaching cd. by pastor buzzy titled "one with god, just like jesus" in which he made the same statement, that we should call it soul growth, & not spiritual growth, to which would be more accurate.

well i have other things to attend to, but i will leave a quote from buzzy's favorite translation,

"salvation for all. salvation supplied by god. god giving to man all that he demands from man. this is good news."
"the distilled bible"
the book of romans
copyright1998

"in christ"
scott

 

[PastorJoey]

...

just today, i was listening to a teaching cd. by pastor buzzy titled "one with god, just like jesus" in which he made the same statement, that we should call it soul growth, & not spiritual growth, to which would be more accurate...

"in christ"
scott

Let me make sure I am understanding. Are you guys saying that the spirit never learns or is any longer receiving revelation knowledge from the Holy Spirit? That at the moment a person is born again, their spirit is fully grown and fully developed in all its capacities?

Technically our mind is a spiritual thing and exists in the spirit realm. Spiritual is not limited to spirit. The soul is as equally a part of the spirit as the spirit is part of the soul. Our mind (soul) is so intertwined with our spirit that they cannot be divided except for by discussion and definition.

Matthew 4:4 KJV
(4) But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Is this food Jesus is referring to food for our soul or food for our spirit? If it is food for our spirit, and this is what I believe, then that means your spirit needs food. What for? To grow and be strengthened thereby.

Ephesians 3:16 KJV
(16) That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

If my inner man (spirit) can be strengthened, it reasons that it can be weakened & or wounded. This means it can grow or be stunted in growth depending on the health of one's spirit.
Luke 2:40 KJV
(40) And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
That pretty much says it all.

What is revelation knowledge? Is it revealed to our spirit or our minds? Revelation knowledge is for the spirit man. It is revealed to our spirit by the Holy Spirit who takes the things of Christ and shows them unto us. God's wisdom doesn't come directly to the intellect but through the spirit to the intellect.

Here are some direct quotes from E.W. Kenyon:

"it is almost an unknown fact that the Holy Spirit does not communicate knowledge to the intellect, except in rare cases where one is so dense spiritually that He must communicate to the senses". E.W. Kenyon

[FONT=&quot]I[FONT=&quot] h[/FONT][FONT=&quot]a[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ve [/FONT][FONT=&quot]co[/FONT][FONT=&quot]m[/FONT][FONT=&quot]e [/FONT][FONT=&quot]to b[/FONT][FONT=&quot]e[/FONT][FONT=&quot]li[/FONT][FONT=&quot]e[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ve, as I have [/FONT][FONT=&quot]s[/FONT][FONT=&quot]tudied the subject of the[/FONT][FONT=&quot]spirit[/FONT][FONT=&quot], [/FONT][FONT=&quot]that wh[/FONT][FONT=&quot]e[/FONT][FONT=&quot]n G[/FONT][FONT=&quot]o[/FONT][FONT=&quot]d imparts t[/FONT][FONT=&quot]o [/FONT][FONT=&quot]us His n[/FONT][FONT=&quot]a[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ture[/FONT][FONT=&quot], [/FONT][FONT=&quot]there comes w[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ith [/FONT][FONT=&quot]it [/FONT][FONT=&quot]a[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ll of the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]a[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ttribut[/FONT][FONT=&quot]es [/FONT][FONT=&quot]of Himself. Th[/FONT][FONT=&quot]e[/FONT][FONT=&quot]y [/FONT][FONT=&quot]a[/FONT][FONT=&quot]re undev[/FONT][FONT=&quot]e[/FONT][FONT=&quot]l[/FONT][FONT=&quot]ope[/FONT][FONT=&quot]d, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]but [/FONT][FONT=&quot]th[/FONT][FONT=&quot]e[/FONT][FONT=&quot]y are there lying l[/FONT][FONT=&quot]a[/FONT][FONT=&quot]tent in [/FONT][FONT=&quot]o[/FONT][FONT=&quot]u[/FONT][FONT=&quot]r [/FONT][FONT=&quot]hum[/FONT][FONT=&quot]a[/FONT][FONT=&quot]n spi[/FONT][FONT=&quot]r[/FONT][FONT=&quot]it[/FONT][FONT=&quot]s[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]. E.W. Kenyon[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Faith is a product of the human spirit and we are to grow in faith. My spirit, yes my spirit has more faith in God today than it did 6 months ago. Why? Because I fed my spirit the Word of God.Gods Word is spiritual food, not of the mind. It is not a state of mind, but it will cause a state of mind.[/FONT]

The cultivation of our spirits come through our giving this spirit right of way in our daily walk. E.W. Kenyon


There are some things no matter how renewed our minds may be that our minds will never fully comprehend. It can be renewed to accept them but not to understand or comprehend them.

We understand with our hearts, this is what faith is, what is understood with the heart (heart knowledge) - not the mind.
Ex. You don’t "believe" with your mind that there is a heaven and have a heavenly mansion- no, you have "accepted" that in your mind through the renewing process. Otherwise it is to say that faith is nothing more than something that can be learned or taught. It is our spirit that we believe with period. "If you shall believe in your heart…"
Our minds were not built to contain revelation knowledge. It is for our spirit. This means that there are things our spirit doesn't know. As the Holy Spirit reveals the things of Christ to us, our spirits develop in them and we as a result we grow spiritually.
The word is not just for the purpose of educating or renewing our mind. It is food for our spirit (wisdom, strength, revelation knowledge, etc…).

God's Word is first revealed to my spirit, then it is conveyed to my intellect (mind).

God does not speak to our mind, He speaks to our spirit by His Spirit (deep calls to deep; spirit calls to spirit).

Just some of my thoughts...

 

[IKTCA]

I have been thinking about this on and off. I see a little better now why some leaders of the pentecostal movement (correct term to use?) thought we are born complete. I can list a few things that indicates our spirits are significantly more complete than we think.

1. As soon as the Holy Spirit descended on the disciples, they became filled with power and raised a lame man. It didn't take them years of growth. (Acts)

2. God calls those who are reborn holy (Ephesians 1)

3. We received everything for holy living (1 Peter 1). Even the Psalms declare we lack nothing in the Lord.

4. My personal testimony: The first person I prayed for healing and was healed was not much after I received the Holy Spirit. (I am not saying I didn't grow at all since then.)

The Bible clearly commands us to grow. The word grow is used at more than one place. But there are also passages/testimonies that we are fully functional at the moment of rebirth, a lot more complete than we think we are.

Since the church puts so much emphasis on growth and ignores fully functional reborn spirit, making us believe utterly powerless, unable to command a demon (to come and go), it might be wise that we emphasize the latter in the church for now.

Rupert

 

[Optimax]

If our spirits are mature when we are born again, why would they then need cleansing?


2 Cor 7:1
7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
KJV

2 Cor 7:1
7:1 THEREFORE, SINCE these [great] promises are ours, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from everything that contaminates and defiles body and spirit, and bring [our] consecration to completeness in the [reverential] fear of God.
AMP

2 Cor 6:14
Having therefore these promises, beloved ones, let us cleanse ourselves from all contamination which may defile the flesh [the human body] and the [human] spirit, progressively accomplishing holiness in the fear of the Lord.
(from The New Testament: An Expanded Translation by Kenneth S. Wuest Copyright © 1961 by Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co. All rights reserved.)

2 Cor 7:1
Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
NASU

 

[Forge3]

Growth is an adequate term if it is compared to human growing into adulthood and maturity. Spiritual growth or progress in sanctity is outlined in many treatises on the mystical life. Through prayer and works or the contemplative/active life one opens up to the work of the Holy Spirit more and more being filled by grace after grace. Little by little one turns their whole being over to God in trust and surrender, leaving the old self and the world behind. Such transformation is seen in Saint Francis of Assisi who was once seen praying through the night to the Lord "My God and my All!"

As my Spiritual director once told me we all resist grace at times. We resist change, and our egos cling to creature comforts and other attachments. The 'process' of surrendering to God in love has us facing our sinfulness layer after layer and yes this is a process of change/transformation or 'growth' in grace and sanctity.