Spiritual gifts are for today as scripture shows those who say they are ceased are not accurate.

[LoveofTruth]

What do you think the word "perfect" refers to?

consider these things and hopefully you will agree with the truth here,

"But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." (1 Cor 13:10-12)

To "know" here means -ἐπιγινώσκω epiginṓskō, ep-ig-in-oce'-ko; from G1909 and G1097; to know upon some mark, i.e. recognize; by implication, to become fully acquainted with, to acknowledge:—(ac-, have, take)know(-ledge, well), perceive.

and compare with this similar section

"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus." ( Philippians 3:10-12).

to "apprehend" here means - καταλαμβάνω katalambánō, kat-al-am-ban'-o; from G2596 and G2983; to take eagerly, i.e. seize, possess, etc. (literally or figuratively):—apprehend, attain, come upon, comprehend, find, obtain, perceive, (over-)take.

Paul is clearly in both cases referring to being perfect and the resurrection of the dead, when he gets a glorified body and when he shall see Christ face to face. And be "known, and "apprehended" same general meaning, as he is also known and apprehended. The similarity is very strong in these two sections. So the gifts have not ceased and that which is perfect does not refer to the holy scriptures. They already had the holy scriptures OT that were able to make them wise unto salvation through faith and to make them perfect unto every good work 2 Timothy 3.

 

[rachelrising]

I do like the title of your thread. God's nature is unchangeable. I am not here to get deeply into end time theories. The prophet Joel did however tell us God's spirit will be poured out on us again and they haven't left the earth (Acts 1:8) (Acts 2-17). So at a time to come we will see even more of these gifts in existence. I myself happened to write a witness account on one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit which I linked in the testimony section in this forum

 

[LoveofTruth]

.

 

[GTW27]

That which is Perfect is The Lord(Jesus)." Is come" His return. It is then and only then that these things will pass away. The Gifts remain, as He remains in the true believer.

 

[com7fy8]

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

As we grow in Jesus, each of us grows in all His ability, not only functioning in any gifts He has given each of us. The perfect gifts in us minister His perfect grace (1 Peter 4:9-10) which matures us in His love which has all good ability. And we discover, then, more and more how we have ability to love.

 

[tturt]

Also, from Eph 4 "Therefore He says: “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.” v 8

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;...v11

"For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:..." "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" v 12-13

 

[LoveofTruth]

Also, from Eph 4 "Therefore He says: “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.” v 8

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;...v11

"For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:..." "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" v 12-13

Yes, and so we can safely say that gifts such as apostles and prophets in that list were not referring to the apostles specifically before he rose again or the seventy. We read of apostles like Timothy, Silvanus, Barnabas, Titus, and Paul etc. after Christ rose

 

[tturt]

Your view of those apostles in that position today as well as prophets?

 

[LoveofTruth]

Your view of those apostles in that position today as well as prophets?

Yes, Ephesianbs 4: does indicate that there are all five of these ministries for today including apostles and prophets and nowhere do we see they have ceased in scripture. We read in Ephesians 4

"Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Ephesians 4:8-13 KJV)

Notice here that he gave gifts unto men (the five mentioned in this section) after the resurrection. So these apostles given after the resurrection and prophets were not the original apostles and prophets before he died and rose again. That is the first consideration. The original 12 apostles were eye witnesses of all Jesus did from John till he was risen but the apostles after he was risen are for the church and ministry as gifts.

Also these gifts are needed for the perfecting of the saints and "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ".

also we read of other apostles after Christ rose who were not the first twelve apostles. We read of apostles and prophets clearly in scripture as seen here.

“Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.” ( Acts 13:1)

Notice here that there were certain prophets there, after there was a call from God to send men out, we see that Barnabas was one of the sent ones with Paul. Barnabas was then an apostle after he was sent out. As we see in scripture clearly to the unbiased reader and who have eyes to see.

“Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,”" ( Acts 14:14 KJV)

We also read of other apostles such as Silvanus and Timotheous,

“Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.”" * 1 Thess. 1:1)

with

“Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.” ( 1 Thess. 2:6 KJV)


Also I see Titus and other brethren as apostles also, we read,

"“Whether any do enquire of Titus, he is my partner and fellowhelper concerning you: or our brethren be enquired of, they are the messengers of the churches, and the glory of Christ.” ( 2 Cor. 8:23 KJV)

the word "Messengers" there in Greak means

messengers - ἀπόστολος apóstolos, ap-os'-tol-os; from G649; a delegate; specially, an ambassador of the Gospel; officially a commissioner of Christ ("apostle") (with miraculous powers):—apostle, messenger, he that is sent

 

[LoveofTruth]

Also, from Eph 4 "Therefore He says: “When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.” v 8

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;...v11

"For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:..." "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" v 12-13

Yes, and all those gifts are needed for the edifying as well. That includes apostles and prophets.

 

[Rene Loup]

Simply ask for all the Spiritual Gifts God is willing to give you and see what happens. You can expect better mood, less interest in material possessions, and easier time understanding and applying Scripture, among other things.

Be also sure to crucify the flesh by reading over all the acts of the flesh, genuinely announcing, "It is finished," each time, then ask for forgiveness while forgiving others, while believing The Holy Spirit fills up in you each time.

Living by the Holy Spirit’s Power​

13 My brothers and sisters, you were chosen to be free. But don’t use your freedom as an excuse to live under the power of sin. Instead, serve one another in love. 14 The whole law is fulfilled by obeying this one command. “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.” (Leviticus 19:18) 15 If you say or do things that harm one another, watch out! You could end up destroying one another.

16 So I say, live by the Holy Spirit’s power. Then you will not do what your desires controlled by sin want you to do. 17 The desires controlled by sin do not want what the Spirit delights in. And the Spirit does not want what the desires controlled by sin delight in. The two are at war with each other. That’s why you are not supposed to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the authority of the law.

19 The result of sin’s control in our lives is clear. It includes sexual sins, impure acts and wild living. 20 It includes worshiping statues of gods and worshiping evil powers. It also includes hatred and fighting, jealousy and fits of anger. Sinful desire is interested only in getting ahead. It stirs up trouble. It separates people into their own little groups. 21 It wants what others have. It gets drunk and takes part in wild parties. It does many things of that kind. I warn you now as I did before. People who live like this will not receive God’s kingdom.

22 But the fruit the Holy Spirit produces is love, joy and peace. It is being patient, kind and good. It is being faithful 23 and gentle and having control of oneself. There is no law against things of that kind. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed their sinful desires to his cross. They don’t want these things anymore. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become proud. Let us not make each other angry. Let us not want what belongs to others.

~Galatians 5:13-26 (NIrV)

Make an effort to stay spirit filled afterwards. This really helps me.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

If there are spiritual GIFs there are probably spiritual JPEGs...

 

[ARBITER01]

If there are spiritual GIFs there are probably spiritual JPEGs...

Stop it, you're not allowed to be funny on this site.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

What do you think the word "perfect" refers to? .... Paul is clearly in both cases referring to being perfect and the resurrection of the dead, when he gets a glorified body and when he shall see Christ face to face. And be "known, and "apprehended" same general meaning, as he is also known and apprehended. The similarity is very strong in these two sections. So the gifts have not ceased and that which is perfect does not refer to the holy scriptures. They already had the holy scriptures OT that were able to make them wise unto salvation through faith and to make them perfect unto every good work 2 Timothy 3.

I believe you are correct in your understanding of what "perfect" refers to. It is certainly when Jesus returns. Because we live in a world where the devil twists things, we need an injection of God's Holy Spirit to undo his works. Be the works of unbelief, sickness, etc.

It is rather sad however that Jesus said:

Luke 18:8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?"

God is willing for us to operate in His gifting, but generally, for the most part, people do not have faith to see the gifts working.