Spiritual bullies

SongOnTheWind

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How do you deal with them? I'm dealing with this in the sense of those who twist scripture to what they want and then try to make you think you're going to hell if you don't agree 100% with their supposed 'enlightenment'.

I could ignore it, but it does seem to be happening more and more. How would you answer such folk? Not to shut them down, or invalidate them in anyway, but just speaking the truth in love. Is there even a need? Should I simply turn a blind eye? It may save me a lot of wasted time in the end.

Thoughts?
 

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In Orthodoxy, we have a term for this, "prelest" or self-delusion about your own righteousness. The more devout a Christian becomes, the more he realizes his sin. Remember the publican and the pharisee and keep a watch on your own salvation.

Abba Poemen the Great: 'I prefer a man who sins and repents to one who does not sin and does not repent. The first has good thoughts, for he admits that he is sinful. But the second has false, soul-destroying thoughts, for he imagines himself to be righteous.'
 
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GospelS

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How do you deal with them? I'm dealing with this in the sense of those who twist scripture to what they want and then try to make you think you're going to hell if you don't agree 100% with their supposed 'enlightenment'.

I could ignore it, but it does seem to be happening more and more. How would you answer such folk? Not to shut them down, or invalidate them in anyway, but just speaking the truth in love. Is there even a need? Should I simply turn a blind eye? It may save me a lot of wasted time in the end.

Thoughts?

People came to Jesus twisting the scripture too. Learn from Jesus. Also, read the epistles. Almost all of the apostles faced the same and gave us the instructions in their letters on how to deal with them. First thing, just don't go anywhere near them until you yourself are very strong spiritually so it won't hurt you when they bully. Second, leave them after talking to them once or twice and focus on whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.

It's a game of the devil and you must learn to ignore it. There is no need to answer them over and over. Just pray about it and leave them to God.
 
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SongOnTheWind

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Thank you, I'm not sure I know how to measure how strong I am. I have read the Bible at least once all the way through, I continue to read it, and I am pretty strong in my convictions. I'm not afraid of being won over by false arguments (we all have our weaknesses, but I certainly pray against all lies from the enemy!) but I don't have any clever comebacks or quips to answer with either. I'm not sure I even need that. I'd just rather not have to deal with it, but maybe it's something I have to confront?
 
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Tolworth John

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I'm dealing with this in the sense of those who twist scripture to what they want and then try to make you think you're going to hell if you don't agree 100% with their supposed 'enlightenment'.

remind them that your salvation is depedant on Jesus, not the views of x.

If this person is a church leader or a pastor remind them that they are standing in Jesus's place and like Jesus are a servant to those they are 'serving'.

if they are not prepared to change, leave.
 
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SongOnTheWind

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remind them that your salvation is depedant on Jesus, not the views of x.

If this person is a church leader or a pastor remind them that they are standing in Jesus's place and like Jesus are a servant to those they are 'serving'.

if they are not prepared to change, leave.
Agreed. I would not say that these people are pastors, though they hold themselves in very high regard and esteem.
 
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4UallPraise

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[QUOTE="SongOnTheWind, post: 75971537, member: 434584”] Thank you, <<<<<snip- I don't have any clever comebacks or quips to answer with either. I'm not sure I even need that. I'd just rather not have to deal with it, but maybe it's something I have to confront?[/QUOTE]Truth in as simple terms as possible is always the best answer. Bullies are not interested in truth, so feeding them with their folly is nothing but foolishness oneself. They are there to bottom feed and that is what they do. Get above the food chain by raising above it in mind and spirit.
 
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Norbert L

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How do you deal with them? I'm dealing with this in the sense of those who twist scripture to what they want and then try to make you think you're going to hell if you don't agree 100% with their supposed 'enlightenment'.

I could ignore it, but it does seem to be happening more and more. How would you answer such folk? Not to shut them down, or invalidate them in anyway, but just speaking the truth in love. Is there even a need? Should I simply turn a blind eye? It may save me a lot of wasted time in the end.

Thoughts?
I totally agree with this part of the statement, "[they]try to make you think". Having an idea challenged does provoke a response. What is bothering about the remaining underlined portion of the sentence, comes from a nagging thought in the back of my mind. Will I be stooping so low to likewise reply with a response that will make them believe they are going to hell?

Considering there's been a few times I've been disciplined and gotten spanked on these forums, the answer would be yes!

Generally I try to think of framing anything I type with a perspective from, will this actually help someone? Otherwise to continue with exchanging adversarial comments has a high degree of leading to, who is more intellectually witty at getting underneath the other persons skin. Two Christians with logs in our eye.

I wouldn't necessarily conclude it's always the other person who has the problem. Jeremiah 17:9
 
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SongOnTheWind

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Truth in as simple terms as possible is always the best answer. Bullies are not interested in truth, so feeding them with their folly is nothing but foolishness oneself. They are there to bottom feed and that is what they do. Get above the food chain by raising above it in mind and spirit.

Thanks :)
 
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Pavel Mosko

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Thoughts?

I got tons of them. Because I encountered this sort of thing a lot in the Charismatic movement, where a few pastors I met I believed had some form of Narcistic personality, maybe not the full clinical criteria of full blown Narcistic personality disorder, but they had those traits etc.


A) These people often grant themselves special privilege's based on that they claim to be a spiritual authority, and maybe an actual one like a pastor. But you have more dubious cases like people claiming to be "prophets", "apostles" etc. and most of those claims come from their own experience and cannot really be verified.

B) These people tend to talk down to other people. One pastor I knew loved the saying "I'm the shepherd and your the sheep". He tended to do things like scold people like children when he got mad, things didn't go there own way etc.


C) Such people tend to forget that their people if they are pastors belong to God, and not them. e.g. they get offend by people leaving their church, not tithing etc. In general have a sense of entitlement as far as what they should have as ministers. This was true especially with the "Prosperity" movement's influence on the movements practices, theology etc.


But this is what I've learned

1) By and large the Bible doesn't grant special privilege's to people. Sure people in leadership have more authority but it is not an arbitrary one where they get to do more or less anything they want to. So hold such peoples feet to the fire when you see them taking advantage of Bible passages etc. for their own benefit. Our relationships in life, even in the Church are two way streets where both sides need to work on things. That actually is part of the meaning of Covenant. Anyway don't let these people have their way. Of course, if they are a pastor of the church, their is not much you can do but disagree with them, rebuke them and leave.


2) These people like to take special advantage of certain scriptures, while ignoring or rationalizing others. Don't let them do this! A favorite tactic is to quote the passage about "going to brother in secret" to anyone who would criticize them especially in public. Meanwhile these people can be happy to rebuke, correct etc. people publicly.

Anyway if you look at that passage it deals with private/personal sins and not ones done in public!



3) A good rule of thumb for ministry is to mirror the behavior and demeanor of those you encounter. If you notice Jesus in the Bible, or saint Paul etc. they tended to respond in kind to the people they ran across. To the shy they were gentle and meek, but could be very hard nosed and harsh to those to their critics, to false teachers, and people otherwise not behaving. So learn from this, and "go and do likewise"!


4) These people tend to distract from their behavior etc. with other cheap tricks. Probably the biggest one is motive questioning. This in many ways is a red herring, aka distraction. Because if you look at the Bible saint Paul is not bothered by motives.


Philippians 1:15-18
New International Version

15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

Yes, and I will continue to rejoice,


So saint Paul aint bothered by motives. So in the end you need to make this about Truth and make the discussion about that. Of course if you are dealing with a Narcist you won't convince them no matter what you say. But if you are successful things will change. Basically the Narcist will begin whining and claiming that they are the victim. So you should take that as a win, because it doesn't get any better than that when dealing with those people. But of course "take heed the saying to beware when fighting monsters that you become a monster." Which is another reason to be realistic about what you can achieve when dealing with such people (generally not healthy to stay in such situations long unless you are looking out for your children, loved ones, try to move on as soon as you can).
 
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SongOnTheWind

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I totally agree with this part of the statement, "[they]try to make you think". Having an idea challenged does provoke a response. What is bothering about the remaining underlined portion of the sentence, comes from a nagging thought in the back of my mind. Will I be stooping so low to likewise reply with a response that will make them believe they are going to hell?

Considering there's been a few times I've been disciplined and gotten spanked on these forums, the answer would be yes!

Generally I try to think of framing anything I type with a perspective from, will this actually help someone? Otherwise to continue with exchanging adversarial comments has a high degree of leading to, who is more intellectually witty at getting underneath the other persons skin. Two Christians with logs in our eye.

I wouldn't necessarily conclude it's always the other person who has the problem. Jeremiah 17:9

Agreed, I don't like retaliation either, it's not constructive and it lowers the bar of discussion even lower. I don't have a need to have the last word, and I don't actually intend to impose my views on anyone. I just don't like lies being force upon me, with the expected reaction that I salute them. Is that too much to ask? Lol.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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How do you deal with them? I'm dealing with this in the sense of those who twist scripture to what they want and then try to make you think you're going to hell if you don't agree 100% with their supposed 'enlightenment'.

I could ignore it, but it does seem to be happening more and more. How would you answer such folk? Not to shut them down, or invalidate them in anyway, but just speaking the truth in love. Is there even a need? Should I simply turn a blind eye? It may save me a lot of wasted time in the end.

Thoughts?
"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another."
We only know in part.
Be as the Bereans.
Be wise as a serpent and gentle as a dove.
Know the difference between the doctrines of men vs the doctrines of God.
Always stand ready to defend the truth.

My humble advice to stay the course.

Be blessed.
 
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Albion

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How do you deal with them? I'm dealing with this in the sense of those who twist scripture to what they want and then try to make you think you're going to hell if you don't agree 100% with their supposed 'enlightenment'.

I could ignore it, but it does seem to be happening more and more. How would you answer such folk? Not to shut them down, or invalidate them in anyway, but just speaking the truth in love. Is there even a need? Should I simply turn a blind eye? It may save me a lot of wasted time in the end.

Thoughts?
You're seeking a good way to deal with the happening, not a way to rebut whatever theology is motivating that other person. With that in mind, I'd recommend doing this--

be pleasant but don't enter into any kind of discussion. Simply say, "Well, we all have our own religious beliefs and I can see that you are sincere in what you believe." Or something along those lines.

It isn't a defense of your faith, that's for certain, and I recognize the temptation to defend it or point to the errors in the other person's POV and/or to say something about the impoliteness of what she or he is doing, but it's useless to try any of that (which you no doubt already realize). ;)

You also said that you don't like lies being forced upon you. I sympathize with that feeling, but the first order of business is to minimize and hopefully end the preaching on her part, so the tactic I've recommended may be the best way to do that. It wasn't a flat shut-down of the other person and it didn't give them any doctrines or Bible verses to work against in any reply. You were complimentary, not insulting, and you expressed no particular religious POV in your reply, so if she does persist, it will be frustrating for her in short order if you stay with the "We all have our own beliefs" kind of response.
 
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SongOnTheWind

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You're seeking a good way to deal with the happening, not a way to rebut whatever theology is motivating that other person. With that in mind, I'd recommend doing this--

be pleasant but don't enter into any kind of discussion. Simply say, "Well, we all have our own religious beliefs and I can see that you are sincere in what you believe." Or something along those lines.

It isn't a defense of your faith, that's for certain, and I recognize the temptation to defend it or point to the errors in the other person's POV and/or to say something about the impoliteness of what she or he is doing, but it's useless to try any of that (which you no doubt already realize). ;)

You also said that you don't like lies being forced upon you. I sympathize with that feeling, but the first order of business is to minimize and hopefully end the preaching on her part, so the tactic I've recommended may be the best way to do that. It wasn't a flat shut-down of the other person and it didn't give them any doctrines or Bible verses to work against in any reply. You were complimentary, not insulting, and you expressed no particular religious POV in your reply, so if she does persist, it will be frustrating for her in short order if you stay with the "We all have our own beliefs" kind of response.
Thank you :)

While I agree, and even have gone the route of politely agreeing to disagree, they just keep on going, lol. There's definitely something wrong somewhere, but if I show compassion and ask them if they have something to sort out, my guess is that they would get even more defensive, and no one would get anywhere even faster.

I have left things as they are for now, hoping it'll give them time to cool off. The thing is, that isn't working either. It's getting really tiring. I really want to tell them to just shut up and go bother someone else, but that would be unkind, I guess. :scratch:
 
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Albion

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Hmm. It seems that your friend is more determined than most people of that kind would be. Or should we say that she can't take a hint?

The one thing I would avoid is suggesting in any way that she is wrong in her beliefs. Even saying that you two should 'agree to disagree' is likely to be received by her that way.

Maybe there's some way of saying, inoffensively, that you of course heard her advice when it was given before, so there's no need to state it again. But you couldn't allow her also to think you are giving it your consideration or you'll really be in this for the long haul!
 
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Rene Loup

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First, read 2 Timothy 3. Having a form of Godliness, but denying its power. Some translations say, "appearing to be religious." This is inevitable in the end times. Selfish ambition is an act of the flesh, and the end times will wax worse and worse as the love of many grows cold (Galatians 5:19-26, John 16:1-4, Luke 17, 21, Mark 13, Matthew 24).

Second, know when to walk away (Matthew 10:11-25, 1 Thessalonians 4:11-12). Do not cast pearls before swine (Matthew 7:6). Avoid politicized churches that put more faith in human leaders and political parties than in God and His Holy Word (Psalm 146). I have made these mistakes before and got hurt as a result. In the words of a clown, "I don't think so. Homey don't play that!"[1][2]

I also want to throw in this Public Service Announcement about bullying and the importance of walking away, like what 2 Timothy 3:5 says. If you grew up in Canada during the 1990s, 2000s, and 2010s, chances are, you have seen these Concerned Children's Advertisers PSA's on television (1 Corinthians 13:11):


Third, serve God, NEVER Mammon (James 5:1-6, Luke 6:24, 16:1-15, Matthew 6:19-24, 1 Timothy 6:1-10)! Serve God out of love for Him, not for money, power, and/or prestige like the Pharisees did (1 Peter 5:1-10, Luke 16:13-15, John 11:45-48, Matthew 23:1-12).

Fourth, read, study, and KNOW Scripture daily. Wolves in sheep's clothing are heavily reliant on your ignorance of Scripture to hurt and control you (John 10:25-30, Matthew 7:15-23, 2 Timothy 3:15-17, Proverbs 12:1, 15:5). Counter lies with the truth when needed (John 8:31-32, 14:6, Psalm 101, Proverbs 6:16-19). Bullies do NOT like to be challenged, so be sure to ask them questions to expose if they truly know what they are talking about (1 John 4:1-6, Luke 14:1-6, Matthew 21:23-27). Do so gently, respectfully, and without hypocrisy (Luke 6:37-42, Matthew 7:1-6, 1 Peter 3:12-17, Proverbs 15:1). You will be known by your fruits, and people are watching (Luke 6:43-45, Matthew 7:13-29, Proverbs 16:18, 18:21, 27:17, 1 Thessalonians 4:11-12).

Fifth, Pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel for wisdom, discernment, guidance, protection, and effective communication. Psalms 91, 40, 131, and the Lord's Prayer every day after 6:00 AM and 6:00 PM are excellent ways of doing so, but prayers from the heart are especially pleasing to God (Ephesians 6:10-20, Matthew 6:5-15, 1 Peter 5:1-10, 1 Thessalonians 5:16-22). Additional Psalms I recommend are 69, 61, 101, 23, 39, 41, 5, 146, 150. Pray them over all the nations by saying, "And over all God's children" (Ephesians 6:18). Anna the prophetess, a woman who saw the Lord Jesus Christ as a baby, served God by praying and fasting at the temple, despite her spiritual status as a prophet of God (Luke 2:36-38).

God bless!
  1. Homey D. Clown, a character from In Living Color.
  2. IMDB.com - In Living Color (TV Series 1990-2006).
 
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GirdYourLoins

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Ivr had 2 pastors like this, one after the other. The first got caught up in a situation that led him to his old, pre-Christian ways. His fall was gradual but while it was happening he was using scripture to manipulate people and threatening people. He used divide and conquer. He was getting people by themselves and making them agree with him. I was the only one who really stood up to him, but there wasnt a lot I could do by myself. At that time I elt very much that God wanted me at the church and to be strong.

Then he was removed from his job as pastor and the one who came in after him was just as bad but in a different way. He surrounded himself with yes men and when I suggested anything he didnt like he would arrange to meet me with his yes men in tow who had been briefed to back him up. At the time I thought it was just me as he had other people saying the same things as him. The church is now about half the size it was when he took over and I dont go any more, in fact it left me and others so we dont go to church at all any more.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Thank you, I'm not sure I know how to measure how strong I am. I have read the Bible at least once all the way through, I continue to read it, and I am pretty strong in my convictions. I'm not afraid of being won over by false arguments (we all have our weaknesses, but I certainly pray against all lies from the enemy!) but I don't have any clever comebacks or quips to answer with either. I'm not sure I even need that. I'd just rather not have to deal with it, but maybe it's something I have to confront?

Pray for the discernment between temptation and appointment...
 
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SongOnTheWind

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Thank you all for your input, I really appreciate it. After thinking about it I've realised that it all comes down to two things. A: their insecurities, and B: their need for attention. I can't keep giving them my attention, it's a drain on the pep in my step :( I'm just going to walk away and commit them into God's hands. I've got my own issues to deal with, I don't feel equipped to take on theirs either. It's definitely for the best. Will let you guys know how it all turns out :oldthumbsup:
 
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