Spin off thread: those feelings and 2nd wave feminism

chaz345

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The websites are out there. If I can find them, anyone can.

And I can find dozens of websites with pure unadulterated man hatred. They would be no more relevant to this thread than yours would be so what was your point again?
 
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JanniGirl

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http://www.christianforums.com/t7616142/

Right here in the thread I'm quoting you see the concept: if a MAN complains he is not getting enough sex, maybe he should just accept it. If it were a woman posting you'd see sympathy. Double standard.

Supporting feminism is not in the interest of any man or woman who advocates good relations between the genders. It is not in the interest of people who are interested in freedom for all people, not just women.

I think there was alot of sympathy in the responses. A couple of the responses were actually things that the poster could do -- such as changing his expectations. That's realistic. And compassionate.

I'm not sure how this is feminist at all -- (especially since you had a pretty even divide of men & women who advocated: 1. him accepting the love that his wife does offer 2. telling her to "just do it" and that its owed to him.)

And, No, not going to agree that all the advice should be "just tell her to do whatever you want her to do & she'd better do it!" -- That's not my definition of equality.

I also didn't see anywhere listed in that thread, a wife complaining that she wasn't getting enough sex and people telling her ..... anything
 
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JaneFW

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I think there was alot of sympathy in the responses. A couple of the responses were actually things that the poster could do -- such as changing his expectations. That's realistic. And compassionate.

I'm not sure how this is feminist at all -- (especially since you had a pretty even divide of men & women who advocated: 1. him accepting the love that his wife does offer 2. telling her to "just do it" and that its owed to him.)

And, No, not going to agree that all the advice should be "just tell her to do whatever you want her to do & she'd better do it!" -- That's not my definition of equality.

I also didn't see anywhere listed in that thread, a wife complaining that she wasn't getting enough sex and people telling her ..... anything
Well, it's interesting. In the past, when I posted about this same topic, I was told, let's see -

wear lingerie
lose weight
smell nice

Even though people did not know what I wore, what I weighed, or how I smelled. So, the assumption was that I was not working hard enough to 'earn' sex from my husband.

LOL.
 
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Athene

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Unless men here are saying that, I'd like to take exception to that remark. Where have I or other men in this thread said that they liked things 'the way they were' assuming that what is meant is pre-2nd Wave feminism?

I'm pretty sure that the men in this thread, including your good self, were either not even born during the big political struggles 2nd wave feminists had to endure, or were too young to really care.
 
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chaz345

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The suggestion being that ... if a husband doesn't want to have sex, it's his wife's fault.


Which is exactly the overwhelming response when the wife doesn't want sex. It's always all about how it must be because he's doing something wrong. The possibility that she's just being selfish is dismissed at best and attacked as woman hating at worst.
 
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k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe

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I'm pretty sure that the men in this thread, including your good self, were either not even born during the big political struggles 2nd wave feminists had to endure, or were too young to really care.

Very true! I suppose my relevant question to this is why then, since I'm 25 years old and have never sexually or racially discriminated against anybody, am I supposed to take a backseat to racial minorities and women? I didn't do anything to oppress either group so why should I have to pay for oppressions well before my lifetime?

Is this equality?:

Why should I have to overcome affirmative action against me in certain facets of life because I'm a white male?

Why should I have to pay the price of losing my kids to a court system which heavily favors women because many years ago women couldn't vote?

Why should I have to endure violent outbursts from women who are close to me because my hands are tied in all corners to stop it?

Why do we consider it politically incorrect when a white male says racist or sexist things but it's completely fine and may even be Grammy worthy when a black male says racist things or a female says sexist things?

Why do Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton hate black Republicans and Libertarians so much? Are they racist to believe that all Black people have to be Democrats?

Why, even though men make up only 41% of those attending college, does a White House Executive order conclude that "A record number of women are attending college and graduate school. The challenge of ensuring equal educational opportunities for women and girls endures."? Even with this factual discrepancy the White House not only reaffirms and supports affirmative action for women for college, but they provide funding and additional programs as well as increasing STEM funding for women. To this day there still is not one male only federal funding grant.

Why, even though women make up the majority of the workforce and men suffer from a 3.2% higher unemployment rate, does the White House make the misleading statement that "Women make up a growing share of our workforce"? Not only do they make up a "growing" share, they make up the majority share. Women do not need any help to get jobs because they already make up the majority of the workforce! Why is it still implied by those in power that women are in the minority in the workplace?

Why does does the wage gap myth still even exist when it's been debunked numerous times in numerous ways? If you really could pay women less, wouldn't those greedy corporations only hire women since they can supposedly pay them 78% of what a man would make? Where's occupy wall street when I need them?

Why are women continually touted as being disenfranchised in the form of healthcare when it is a verifiable fact that women obtain more healthcare dollars than men even when accounting for pregnancy. Furthermore, federal and state governments have dozens of programs for women's health only, but little to none for men.

Why does the a White House executive order mislead us with the statement that "as the current economic crisis has swept across our nation, women have been seriously affected"? The fact of the matter is that men have been MORE economically affected ("
Men lost more jobs, and worse, in the jobs creation package recently passed by Congress in 2011, women obtained a much higher level or benefit than men") by the economic crisis and we don't see any White House inquiries into the state of men...

Why does the White House executive order conclude that "
When our daughters do not have the same educational and career opportunities as our sons, that affects entire communities, our economy, and our future as a Nation" when it is just flat out wrong? "Women make up almost 60% of college students and enjoy over two dozen female only government educational programs, hold 51% of the high-paying management and professional jobs, have a 3.2% lower unemployment rate and are 12 times less likely to be gravely injured or killed on the job." Of the two genders, it doesn't sound like women are the ones who have it worse.

I cannot see where women are being "held back" or discriminated against by men. If anything, the opposite is true and more opportunities are given to women by federal, state, and local governments in the name of affirmative action.

When have we reached what you modern day feminists would consider "equality"? Where I'm sitting, things are looking less and less equal, in favor of the female, every single day, yet people are still crying that women haven't achieved equality yet. I honestly don't get it.


 
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JaneFW

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Which is exactly the overwhelming response when the wife doesn't want sex. It's always all about how it must be because he's doing something wrong. The possibility that she's just being selfish is dismissed at best and attacked as woman hating at worst.
Not that I have noticed.
 
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Created2Write

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Which is exactly the overwhelming response when the wife doesn't want sex. It's always all about how it must be because he's doing something wrong. The possibility that she's just being selfish is dismissed at best and attacked as woman hating at worst.

Exactly. In a recent thread where a man is asking about his sexual relationship with his wife, aside from me and McScribe, the responses were about his self-control and whether or not he views inappropriate content or lusts after other women. Certainly the issue couldn't be with his wife...Unthinkable.
 
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Luther073082

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McScribe,

Honestly, your complaints seem to be that men don't feel "good" about feminism and don't feel like they can talk about not feeling good. I'm asking, reasonably, why they don't feel "good". You wanted to discuss the ideology of certain feminists -- and I'm okay with that, buy I'm not sure why their (minority) views matter so much to you. That's not what feminism looks like -- so even if they wanted all men dead, it certainly hasn't come true AND the vast majority of feminists hold no such views.

So, what's your real beef with feminism, in practice today?

Abortion, which of course the man gets no choice. -- If he doesn't want the child and she does. . . he has to pay up child support. If he wants the child and she doesn't she has the child summarily executed for being inconvient.

My radical solution is to just make abortion illegal.

Removal of man's presumption of innocence in when the crime is in regards to any act of violence against a woman. --See Violence against Women act

Constant lobbying for more education dollars despite the fact that women are the clear majority in Univerisities.

Constant lobbying for more non-pregnancy related health care dollars despite the fact that women live far longer then men on average and command the vast majority of the health care dollars already.

Applauding acts of violence against men see and defending any woman who claims to be abused no matter what the evidence says to the contrary.

In a rape case her name is a big secret but his face and name are all over the paper.

The constant and consistent blaming of men and only men for single motherhood.

Taking any criticism of their movement, their tatics, or their views and accusing anyone who disagrees with any of these as "hating women". Or supporting the mythical patriarchy. Which is exactly what you are doing, you are very well versed in their tatics.

Claiming to want equality but never pushing for equal responsibilities. I don't see any women out there pushing for women to be responsible for signing up for selective service. . .

No fault divorce which allows a woman to divorce a man for any reason she feels like, take the house, take the kids, and often force him to pay alimony and child support. Of course women find divorce courts to be fair, they get everything thats important!!
 
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Athene

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Claiming to want equality but never pushing for equal responsibilities. I don't see any women out there pushing for women to be responsible for signing up for selective service. . .

Do you think that women should be allowed to take part in active combat?
 
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Luther073082

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Do you think that women should be allowed to take part in active combat?

Yes I do. . .

If we're gonna be equal then fine lets do it. The women can get out there on the front lines and can be conscripted to do it too.

I'm tired of this "equal" country holding men's lives cheaply.

But of course the reason we don't allow it is simple. For some reason the people take 1 woman's death harder then they ever do a man. Most in this country wouldn't even notice if 10 men died in combat. 1 woman dies and it becomes a national tragedy.
 
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JaneFW

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Yes I do. . .

If we're gonna be equal then fine lets do it. The women can get out there on the front lines and can be conscripted to do it too.

I'm tired of this "equal" country holding men's lives cheaply.

But of course the reason we don't allow it is simple. For some reason the people take 1 woman's death harder then they ever do a man. Most in this country wouldn't even notice if 10 men died in combat. 1 woman dies and it becomes a national tragedy.
Actually, what most people say is that women on the front line would be distracting to men, and also it has been said that women should be at home looking after children. Literally, I have read that.

I dunno, the Israeli army manages to have mixed frontline soldiers fine.

If I were inclined to be in the military, I would be hacked that I couldn't fight like everyone else. But I'm not.
 
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Athene

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Yes I do. . .

If we're gonna be equal then fine lets do it. The women can get out there on the front lines and can be conscripted to do it too.

I'm tired of this "equal" country holding men's lives cheaply.

But of course the reason we don't allow it is simple. For some reason the people take 1 woman's death harder then they ever do a man. Most in this country wouldn't even notice if 10 men died in combat. 1 woman dies and it becomes a national tragedy.

From what I've read it seems that the reason women aren't allowed is because it's automatically assumed that women won't be physically up to it, and even if they were they might distract the men by being sexy and all that.
 
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JaneFW

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From what I've read it seems that the reason women aren't allowed is because it's automatically assumed that women won't be physically up to it, and even if they were they might distract the men by being sexy and all that.
LOL.
 
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chaz345

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From what I've read it seems that the reason women aren't allowed is because it's automatically assumed that women won't be physically up to it, and even if they were they might distract the men by being sexy and all that.

Actually a major part of it is concerns that they would be raped as part of torture if they were to be captured.
 
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