Speaking in tongues?

[Andrei D]

I have been blessed with one of the most beautiful things I could experience.

The Forgiveness Vespers tonight was done by several parishes in the area, all the priests joined at one of the churches. There was English, Greek, Serbian and Romanian. Each of them, performed the service in their own language, for a smooth and perfect flow of the service in spite of that, or better yet made more meaningful because of that.

I'm not sure how common this is in the US, but it is the first time I experienced this. To say it was wondrous would be an understatement.

1 Corinthians 12:12 right there.

Anyone else attends church in multiple languages? How do you feel about it? I know GOArch churches often do mixed language service. Do you feel different emotions for different languages?

I still have some trouble with English in the church. I'm not sure if I am evil for that, but it doesn't feel as right as it should. I'm not sure if it is because the language, at least here, is so sanitized and modern (lacking in the uplifting lexical heaviness of the ages, if I may) or if it is because my brain associates English with Protestantism, but I feel sad about it. On the other hand, I felt the same wonderful grace emanating from the Serbian and Greek just with a different "flavor". I don't speak either, but it didn't seem to matter, perhaps because Romanian church language has an almost equal amount of Greek and Slavonic word imports so it almost felt I could understand (I couldn't, not really).

I do believe there is something special about praying in one's native language, adn I loosely link that to Acts of the Apostles 2:6-12

I do not know if the Greek (and Serbian) used are similar to the day-to-day parlance or, like in Romanian where the liturgical language is almost its own, with many words that are almost never used outside the Church.

The cantors, although they sang in English, were astounding too. Our parish is small, and we have only one usually, and sometimes people join in for the less challenging parts.

At the end, "Waters of Babylon" brought actual tears to my eyes. Here I am, a sojourner in a foreign land, asking for forgiveness and preparing for the great fast with people of many nations, finding a deeper connection with my faith than I have ever had. 1 Peter 2:11

In any event, sorry for the long post and the bait-y title, but I am still shaken by the experience. This was the absolute perfect beginning of the Great Lent. Glory be to God.

 

[abacabb3]

Yeah, I remember thinking when hearing "Christ is risen" is 10 different languages was what tongues in church is supposed to be

 

[ArmyMatt]

we read the Gospel either for Pascha or Agape Vespers in as many languages as possible to show the Good News is to into all the world.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Our Liturgy is typically half Greek, half English, with the halves switching from week to week. Important parts such as the Creed and the readings are in both languages. These are the languages of the people in attendance. We also say the Our Father in as many languages as are present - usually Greek, English, Russian, Romanian, Ukrainian, Spanish, and one more I'm forgetting - frequently a few others.

And as Fr. Matt said, the Agape Vespers in as many languages as we can find people able to read them.

I hope there's nothing inherently "bad" about English. That's my language, and I would not understand very much without it. I am making an effort to learn the Greek, and have appreciation not only for the sound (since it is the language the chant, etc. was written and arranged for - English can get so awkward there). But also I appreciate the deeper meaning and the connections that can be drawn as I learn it more and more. I'm so thankful to be in a parish that still uses it, or else I'd probably have less motivation to learn and no opportunity to appreciate the Liturgy in that way.

But being in the language of the people for the sake of their understanding is essential.

I'm really glad to hear of your experience, btw. That sounds wonderful.

 

[FenderTL5]

Our church is GOArch.
Agape/Paschal vespers will have the Gospel readings in 10-12 languages.

For weekly services our parish is very similar to Anastasia's; the service is split primarily between Greek/English and the parts will vary week to week. The Our Father was in five languages yesterday; Greek, Slavonic, Arabic, Romanian and English.
There was a memorial service for a parishioner's grandmother, who was in the Ukraine. Father recited part of the service in that language.

 

[Anhelyna]

My previous Parish was Ukrainian, and only Ukrainian was used except for the Gospel which was Chanted in Ukrainian and then English [ if it was not too long ]

My present Community are English usage - but like ~Anastasia~ we have the Our Father in as many languages as possible - Greek, Romanian, Russian, German, Dutch, Cantonese and I ~think~ Danish was used as well this week We are in a city with 4 Universities so have plenty of visiting students from all corners of the globe

 

[All4Christ]

Ours is primarily English, though we use a wide variety of languages for Lord have mercy, etc. Personally, as a convert, I am very thankful to have the services in English! Despite me being good with foreign languages, I would have a much more difficult time becoming Orthodox if it wasn’t in English, or at least a lot of it in English.

The Slavic countries were given a Liturgy that was similar to their language by St Cyril and St Methodius - and were assisted in getting a written language. The Romanians have it in a version of their language, the Ukrainians and the Serbians have a Liturgy similar to their language or even in their language, the middle eastern countries have it in Arabic, the Greek Church has the Liturgy in Greek (though I think it is an older version of the language?), etc. We are new to Orthodoxy here, but I am glad we can still have a service in our native tongue, like the major Orthodox countries have.

 

[FenderTL5]

Ours is primarily English, though we use a wide variety of languages for Lord have mercy, etc. Personally, as a convert, I am very thankful to have the services in English! Despite me being good with foreign languages, I would have a much more difficult time becoming Orthodox if it wasn’t in English, or at least a lot of it in English.

The Slavic countries were given a Liturgy that was similar to their language by St Cyril and St Methodius - and were assisted in getting a written language. The Romanians have it in a version of their language, the Ukrainians and the Serbians have a Liturgy similar to their language or even in their language, the middle eastern countries have it in Arabic, etc. We are new to Orthodoxy here, but I am glad we can still have a service in our native tongue, like the major Orthodox countries have.

I agree with you here. if the services had been in all Greek when we first visited I don;t know if we'd would have stayed.
otoh, I love the other languages being incorporated. I like being stretched intellectually as well as spiritually.
I'm going to our church's "Greek School" and learning, gradually.
One of my favorite parts of the service is the Our Father in all of the languages.. for me it's one of those paradoxes, where hearing all of those different languages enhances the spirit of being connected.

 

[All4Christ]

I agree with you here. if the services had been in all Greek when we first visited I don;t know if we'd would have stayed.
otoh, I love the other languages being incorporated. I like being stretched intellectually as well as spiritually.
I'm going to our church's "Greek School" and learning, gradually.
One of my favorite parts of the service is the Our Father in all of the languages.. for me it's one of those paradoxes, where hearing all of those different languages enhances the spirit of being connected.

I love hearing the other languages, and I have learned some Slavonic to understand the Slavonic choirs and arrangements more (sometimes it is just more beautiful and articulate). I do believe wholeheartedly though that we need to understand the Liturgy. I want our future kids, God willing, to understand the services without having to learn another language. I do love hearing all the languages come together though - as it reminds us that Orthodoxy has no limits culturally and geographically. I especially like it when we incorporate languages beyond just the major Orthodox countries’ languages.

 

[All4Christ]

One of my favorite Wikipedia entries:

• Afrikaans: Here, ontferm U
• Albanian: O Zot ki mëshirë
• Amharic, Ge'ez and Tigrinya: ኪርያላይሶን
• Arabic: يا ربّ ارحم (Yā Rabbu arḥam)
• Armenian: Տէր, ողորմեա (Ter voġormya)
• Basque: Erruki zakizkigu, Jauna
• Belarusian: Госпадзе (Пане), зьмілуйся (Hospadzie (Panie), źmiłujsia, Hospad'zie (Panie), z'miluysia)
• Bulgarian: Господи, помилуй (Gospodi, pomiluj)
• Catalan: Senyor, tingueu pietat
• Chinese: (traditional 求主憐憫 (simplified 求主怜悯 (Mandarin pinyin: qiúzhǔ lián mǐn; Cantonese jyutping: kau4 zyu2 lin4 man5; Min: kiuchu lian bin)
• Church Slavonic: Господи Помилуй (Gospodi pomilui)
• Croatian: Gospodine, smiluj se
• Czech: Pane, smiluj se
• Danish: Herre, forbarm Dig
• Dutch: Heer, ontferm U
• English: Lord, have mercy
• Esperanto: Sinjoro, kompatu
• Estonian: Issand, halasta
• Filipino (Cebuano): Ginoo, kaloy-i kami
• Filipino (Ilocano): Apo, Maasi Ka
• Filipino (Kapampangan): Guinú, pakalulù
• Filipino (Tagalog): Panginoón, maawa ka
• Filipino (Bikol): Kagurangnan, maherak ka
• Finnish: Herra armahda
• French: Seigneur, prends pitié
• German: Herr, erbarme Dich unser
• Georgian: უფალო, შეგვიწყალენ (Up'alo, šegvitsk'alen)
• Gaelic (Scotland): A Thighearna, dèan tròcair oirnn
• Gothic : (Fráuja armáis)
• Ancient Greek: Κύριε ἐλέησον (Kúrie eléêson)
• Modern Greek: Κύριε ελέησον (Kírie eléison)
• Hebrew: אדון רחם נא (Adon raḥem na)
• Hill Mari: Йымы, жäлаемä
• Hungarian: Uram, irgalmazz
• Icelandic: Drottinn, miskunna þú oss
• Indonesian: Tuhan, kasihanilah kami
• Irish Gaelic: A Thiarna, déan trócaire orainn
• Italian: Signore, pietà
• Japanese: 主よ、憐み給え (しゅよ、あわれみたまえ) (Shuyo, awaremi-tamae)
• Korean: 주님, 자비를 베푸소서 (Junim, jabireul bepusoseo)
• Kinyarwanda: Nyagasani, tubabarire
• Latin: Domine, miserere
• Latvian: Kungs, apžēlojies
• Lithuanian: Viešpatie, pasigailėk
• Macedonian: Господи, помилуј (Gospodi, pomiluj)
• Malagasy :Tompo o, mamindrà fo
• Malayalam: Kuriye laayisson
• Māori: E te Ariki, kia aroha mai
• Meadow Mari: Юмо серлаге (Yumo serlage)
• Malti: Mulej ħniena
• Northern Ndebele: Nkosi, sihawukele
• Norwegian: Herre, miskunne Deg
• Persian: پروردگارا ، به ما رحم كن
• Polish: Panie, zmiłuj się.
• Portuguese: Senhor, tende piedade de nós (This is translated as: "Lord, have mercy on us".)
• Romanian: Doamne, miluieşte
• Russian: Господи, помилуй (Gospodi, pomiluj)
• Samoan: Le Ali'i e, alofa mai
• Serbian: Господи, помилуј (Gospodi, pomiluj)
• Shona: Mambo tinzwireiwo tsitsi
• Slovak: Pane, zmiluj sa
• Slovene: Gospod, usmili se
• Spanish: Señor, ten piedad
• Swahili: Bwana utuhurumie.
• Swedish: Herre, förbarma Dig
• Syriac: ܡܳܪܰܢ ܐܶܬ݂ܪܰܚܰܡ (Moran eṯraḥam)
• Tamil: Karthavae Erangum
• Telugu : Prabhuva, kanikarinchumu
• Thai: พระผู้เป็นเจ้า โปรดเมตตาเทอญ
• Turkish: Rabbim, bize merhamet eyle
• Ukrainian: Господи, помилуй (Hospody, pomyluj)
• Vandalic: Froia arme[10]
• Vietnamese: Xin Chúa thương xót chúng con.
• Welsh: Arglwydd, trugarha wrthym

With my heritage:

Arglwydd, trugarha wrthym (Welsh)
A Thiarna, déan trócaire orainn (Gaelic)
Herr, erbarme Dich unser (German)
Lord have mercy (English )

And my husband’s:

Господи Помилуй (Church Slavonic / Ukrainian / Russian)

And my patron saint St Laura of Córdoba:

Señor, ten piedad

 

[FenderTL5]

One of my favorite Wikipedia entries:

• Afrikaans: Here, ontferm U
• Albanian: O Zot ki mëshirë
• Amharic, Ge'ez and Tigrinya: ኪርያላይሶን
• Arabic: يا ربّ ارحم (Yā Rabbu arḥam)
• Armenian: Տէր, ողորմեա (Ter voġormya)
• Basque: Erruki zakizkigu, Jauna
• Belarusian: Госпадзе (Пане), зьмілуйся (Hospadzie (Panie), źmiłujsia, Hospad'zie (Panie), z'miluysia)
• Bulgarian: Господи, помилуй (Gospodi, pomiluj)
• Catalan: Senyor, tingueu pietat
• Chinese: (traditional 求主憐憫 (simplified 求主怜悯 (Mandarin pinyin: qiúzhǔ lián mǐn; Cantonese jyutping: kau4 zyu2 lin4 man5; Min: kiuchu lian bin)
• Church Slavonic: Господи Помилуй (Gospodi pomilui)
• Croatian: Gospodine, smiluj se
• Czech: Pane, smiluj se
• Danish: Herre, forbarm Dig
• Dutch: Heer, ontferm U
• English: Lord, have mercy
• Esperanto: Sinjoro, kompatu
• Estonian: Issand, halasta
• Filipino (Cebuano): Ginoo, kaloy-i kami
• Filipino (Ilocano): Apo, Maasi Ka
• Filipino (Kapampangan): Guinú, pakalulù
• Filipino (Tagalog): Panginoón, maawa ka
• Filipino (Bikol): Kagurangnan, maherak ka
• Finnish: Herra armahda
• French: Seigneur, prends pitié
• German: Herr, erbarme Dich unser
• Georgian: უფალო, შეგვიწყალენ (Up'alo, šegvitsk'alen)
• Gaelic (Scotland): A Thighearna, dèan tròcair oirnn
• Gothic : (Fráuja armáis)
• Ancient Greek: Κύριε ἐλέησον (Kúrie eléêson)
• Modern Greek: Κύριε ελέησον (Kírie eléison)
• Hebrew: אדון רחם נא (Adon raḥem na)
• Hill Mari: Йымы, жäлаемä
• Hungarian: Uram, irgalmazz
• Icelandic: Drottinn, miskunna þú oss
• Indonesian: Tuhan, kasihanilah kami
• Irish Gaelic: A Thiarna, déan trócaire orainn
• Italian: Signore, pietà
• Japanese: 主よ、憐み給え (しゅよ、あわれみたまえ) (Shuyo, awaremi-tamae)
• Korean: 주님, 자비를 베푸소서 (Junim, jabireul bepusoseo)
• Kinyarwanda: Nyagasani, tubabarire
• Latin: Domine, miserere
• Latvian: Kungs, apžēlojies
• Lithuanian: Viešpatie, pasigailėk
• Macedonian: Господи, помилуј (Gospodi, pomiluj)
• Malagasy :Tompo o, mamindrà fo
• Malayalam: Kuriye laayisson
• Māori: E te Ariki, kia aroha mai
• Meadow Mari: Юмо серлаге (Yumo serlage)
• Malti: Mulej ħniena
• Northern Ndebele: Nkosi, sihawukele
• Norwegian: Herre, miskunne Deg
• Persian: پروردگارا ، به ما رحم كن
• Polish: Panie, zmiłuj się.
• Portuguese: Senhor, tende piedade de nós (This is translated as: "Lord, have mercy on us".)
• Romanian: Doamne, miluieşte
• Russian: Господи, помилуй (Gospodi, pomiluj)
• Samoan: Le Ali'i e, alofa mai
• Serbian: Господи, помилуј (Gospodi, pomiluj)
• Shona: Mambo tinzwireiwo tsitsi
• Slovak: Pane, zmiluj sa
• Slovene: Gospod, usmili se
• Spanish: Señor, ten piedad
• Swahili: Bwana utuhurumie.
• Swedish: Herre, förbarma Dig
• Syriac: ܡܳܪܰܢ ܐܶܬ݂ܪܰܚܰܡ (Moran eṯraḥam)
• Tamil: Karthavae Erangum
• Telugu : Prabhuva, kanikarinchumu
• Thai: พระผู้เป็นเจ้า โปรดเมตตาเทอญ
• Turkish: Rabbim, bize merhamet eyle
• Ukrainian: Господи, помилуй (Hospody, pomyluj)
• Vandalic: Froia arme[10]
• Vietnamese: Xin Chúa thương xót chúng con.
• Welsh: Arglwydd, trugarha wrthym

With my heritage:

Arglwydd, trugarha wrthym (Welsh)
A Thiarna, déan trócaire orainn (Gaelic)
Herr, erbarme Dich unser (German)
Lord have mercy (English )

And my husband’s:

Господи Помилуй (Church Slavonic / Ukrainian / Russian)

That's fantastic.
and I like this page as well (Paschal Greeting)

 

[All4Christ]

That's fantastic.
and I like this page as well (Paschal Greeting)

I was thinking about that greeting...and held back since it is the first day of Lent I have an awesome quote / image with all of the Paschal Greetings and an icon of the resurrection!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Our liturgy (I’m in a Serbian diocese) is in English, but 90% of the time the Dostoyno Yest is in Slavonic. The Our Father 80% of the time is English, but during big feasts it is Slavonic like Sunday. Blessings are mostly in English, but sometimes Slavonic.

Father loves to say Christ is Born or Christ is Risen in every language of our congregants.

For me, I’m so accustomed to the Dostoyno Yest in Slavonic that the English sounds lousy!!

 

[Andrei D]

I hope there's nothing inherently "bad" about English. That's my language

I am very thankful to have the services in English!

I do believe wholeheartedly though that we need to understand the Liturgy.

Absolutely! That is exactly how I feel - I am thankful for and fearful about losing the ability to have Church in my native language. Which leads to a contradiction, because, on the other hand, I do not particularly like the "ethnic parish" concept. I have no solution, obviously.

... the English sounds lousy!!

My question remains - is it just because one is used to something else, or is it really an issue with the use of such "casual" English? This is far from a theological issue, but I am of the odd opinion that it is more than a purely aesthetic one. Occasionally, it doesn't fit to my ingrained understanding.

I will ask a question that is also an example. I was wondering if anyone actually speaks Greek and could enlighten me on something: what kind of word is ελέησον? How does it translate most literally? "Lord, have mercy", to me, almost sounds as if we pray for God to experience the emotion of mercy or change His mercilessness. The subject is God, and the object is "mercy". Whereas in Romanian and the Slav languages (Господи помилуй, etc.) and Latin (miserere nobis), unless I'm mistaken, mercy is the verb, a transitive verb in imperative whose object is "us". As it were: "God, mercy us / en-mercy-ate us" (or at the very least, "God, give mercy") which is a bit different and closer to my core ineffable understanding of God's mercy as an action rather than an emotion. Mercy then feels like an immaterial manna that you receive in that action of God and is almost perceptible and you have it within you at the end. Also, it God feels kinder and sweeter, whereas "have mercy" seems (to me) more like the invocation towards a cruel being. Does it make any sense? Or does it have the same meaning for a native English speaker?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

When I was a Roman Catholic, hearing Ave Maria in the original Latin brought tears to my eyes. It is a moving experience. Sometimes language is an emotional and sentimental spiritual thing at a level you just can't explain. The Latin Mass was so much more beautiful than the banal and plain, modern mess of the Novus Ordo Mass. For me the "It is Truly Meet" (Dostoyno Yest) is just more lovely in that Slavonic tongue. It might be just my having been accustomed to it. But it struck me early on when I visited my parish.

I don't have an answer for your other question. I hear a loving God granting mercy to His children in all of these languages. I don't see a beckoning to a merciless god to change his mind. Lord have mercy in Greek, Slavonic, Arabic, or English is lovely.

Absolutely! That is exactly how I feel - I am thankful for and fearful about losing the ability to have Church in my native language. Which leads to a contradiction, because, on the other hand, I do not particularly like the "ethnic parish" concept. I have no solution, obviously.



My question remains - is it just because one is used to something else, or is it really an issue with the use of such "casual" English? This is far from a theological issue, but I am of the odd opinion that it is more than a purely aesthetic one. Occasionally, it doesn't fit to my ingrained understanding.

I will ask a question that is also an example. I was wondering if anyone actually speaks Greek and could enlighten me on something: what kind of word is ελέησον? How does it translate most literally? "Lord, have mercy", to me, almost sounds as if we pray for God to experience the emotion of mercy or change His mercilessness. The subject is God, and the object is "mercy". Whereas in Romanian and the Slav languages (Господи помилуй, etc.) and Latin (miserere nobis), unless I'm mistaken, mercy is the verb, a transitive verb in imperative whose object is "us". As it were: "God, mercy us / en-mercy-ate us" (or at the very least, "God, give mercy") which is a bit different and closer to my core ineffable understanding of God's mercy as an action rather than an emotion. Mercy then feels like an immaterial manna that you receive in that action of God and is almost perceptible and you have it within you at the end. Also, it God feels kinder and sweeter, whereas "have mercy" seems (to me) more like the invocation towards a cruel being. Does it make any sense? Or does it have the same meaning for a native English speaker?

 

[All4Christ]

For me the "It is Truly Meet" (Dostoyno Yest) is just more lovely in that Slavonic tongue.

Thanks for the translation of the title of Dostoyno Yest! I had no clue what it meant. Now if you said Bogodoritsa, Bozhe or Otche Nas (don’t ask me to spell it in Slavonic...I’m probably butchering the transliteration), I’d know what that is. That said, 10 years ago, I’d have no clue on that either. I’ve been picking up a few things from my hubbie’s family. Little expressions enter their every day speech, so I pick it up from context. Otche Nas...well, that’s one song in Slavonic that is absolutely beautiful, especially with Kedrov. I have a lot of Slavonic choral albums.

Personally though, hearing the congregation join together in song with the Lord’s Prayer is one of the most beautiful sounds possible.

ETA: I think I should stop posting this morning. I’m still half asleep and it looks like my grammar is atrocious right now I’ve made a lot of edits and it still isn’t great.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I hear ya, Laura. The Otche Nash is lovely. For some reason I just haven’t memorized that prayer like some others!?!

Thanks for the translation of the title of Dostoyno Yest! I had no clue what it meant. Now if you said Bogodoritsa, Bozhe or Otche Nas (don’t ask me to spell it in Slavonic...I’m probably butchering the transliteration), I’d know what that is. That said, 10 years ago, I’d have no clue on that either. I’ve been picking up a few things from my hubbie’s family. Little expressions enter their every day speech, so I pick it up from context. Otche Nas...well, that’s one song in Slavonic that is absolutely beautiful, especially with Kedrov. I have a lot of Slavonic choral albums.

Personally though, hearing the congregation join together in song with the Lord’s Prayer is one of the most beautiful sounds possible.

ETA: I think I should stop posting this morning. I’m still half asleep and it looks like my grammar is atrocious right now I’ve made a lot of edits and it still isn’t great.

 

[ma2000]

Hello, Andrei! Welcome back!

I have experienced services in Romanian/Bulgarian and Romanian/Greek and it always was a moving experience.
For me it is very interesting how was able to recognize by the chanting the specific moment in the Divine Liturgy held in Greek or Salvonic where the service was at.
Have a blessed Lent!