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Speaking in tongues?

Discussion in 'Friendship Court' started by Quiet Storm, Nov 17, 2002.

  1. Quiet Storm

    Quiet Storm Back in Shepherd's arms

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    This is more of a two-part question:

    #1: Jesus said that one of the signs that lets us know that we are saved is that we speak in new tongues. Being that I'm personally not too vocal with my praise and worship, I've never done so. Is this something that I should be concerned about?

     

    #2: Just what EXACTLY is speaking in new tongues? Some people told me that it's speaking a heavenly language, others said that it's speaking in other languages (maybe Israeli or something else?) :scratch:

    Can someone help me out? All other comments concerning the subject matter are more than welcome.
     
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  2. reeann

    reeann Trust and Obey

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    I know that there are two words for Tongues, one meaning other languages and one meaning a "prayer" language between you and God.  Both are gifts of the Holy Spirit.

    There are some who say you are not saved unless you speak in the Prayer language of tongues.  Others believe it to be a second baptism, a maturing into your inheritance.  Others, believe its just one of the gifts of the Spirit, and valid today, still others say, its not a gift used today.

    As with anything, I would say read the New Testament (as all agree its a gift from the Holy Spirit or post Pentacost).  Prayerfully consider the texts.  As always, God will reveal to your heart what His will for you will be.
     
  3. Gerry

    Gerry Jesus Paid It All

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    Speaking in Tongues has NOTHING at all, whatsoever to do with salvation.

    1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

    There are those who claim that speaking in tongues is the "FIRST" sign of being filled with the Holy Spirit. That too is an error. The FIRST sign of being filled with the Holy Spirit is LOVE!
     
  4. reeann

    reeann Trust and Obey

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    Gerry, i happened to agree with you.  Thank you for the scripture.

    Isn't there two words in the New Testament for speaking in tongues?
     
  5. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    Ephes. 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

    WE know at the tower of babel, everyone was scattered. At pentacost, God began to gather them back together again.

    Baptism in the Holy Spirit is given for ministry. Anyone who does not have the baptism of the Holy Ghost is not going to be used of God. They maybe saved, but they can not be used of God, without being annointed for ministry.
     
  6. Didaskomenos

    Didaskomenos Voiced Bilabial Spirant

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    Jesus said nothing of the sort. If you attend a church that claims that, please consider finding another. Pentecostals teach that tongues are for service - they supposedly help equip you to spread the Gospel. They reject the notion that it has anything to do with salvation (except that you must be saved to do it). Many do, however, say that it is the initial evidence of being "baptized in the Holy Spirit," which I've boiled down to mean approximately, "you can speak in tongues." Charismatics are too diverse for me to limit them - but I'm sure a lot of them expect all Christians to do it.

    It's hard to know from the NT. The reason we call it "tongues" is because the KJV translated it that way from a Greek word that today would be translated "languages." The Greeks called languages "tongues." So is it really a special kind of utterance? Yes, doubtless. One of the earliest cases in the Church of God (Cleveland, TN) was when a lady with the last name Ozman was reported to have spoken in Chinese without ever having learned that language. It makes sense for the first occurrence of tongues at Pentecost to refer to real languages, because of the number of people from different places assembled there who needed to hear the Gospel in their own language. Many missionaries have claimed to have miraculously spoken the language of the people they're evangelizing (not always instantaneously, though - sometimes they just learned the languages quickly). Early cases and still occasionally today we hear that the language someone is speaking is a real human language they never learned.

    But most people who speak in tongues today speak what they think is the language of heaven. Unfortunately, since we don't have a grammar or dictionary for Heavenese, we can't check up on it.

    BTW, the Bible never uses two words for two different types of "tongues." People say there are two types because they think it makes more sense with what Paul says. In 1 Corinthians 14:2, 14-15 he says, “For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God...For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.” They call that a "prayer language." However, he talks elsewhere of tongues used in public settings, in which there must be someone with the "gift of interpretation" to translate. They say this more rare type of tongues is used for prophecy.
     
  7. cougan

    cougan Senior Member

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    No you should'nt be concerned. You must be making reference to the following verses.

    16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;18 "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."19 So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with <I>them </I>and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen.

    First off people like to claim they can speak in tongues which is a language and not some sort of gibrish that is deemed a heavenly language as I will discus more later. But when you try and get them to take up a serpent or drink something deadly they won't do it. In&nbsp;fact some have tried and died. Speaking in tongues and the like are miracleous gifts that were limted to the 1st century. The church was in its infant stage and the word of God had not yet been fully revealed. This is&nbsp;why these belivers being either the apostles which were baptized by the HS on the day of Pentacost or those that the apostles laid their hands on and passed on the miracleous gift are the ones being spoken of here. The purpose of these miracles were to confirm the word being spoke by these people to show what they were saying was coming from God and not from themselves. This is another thing that people can't seem to show today. If you ask them to confirm what they are saying is from God they can not do it. They will just give you some lame excuse why they wont or cant do it. Speaking in tongues was one of the least of the gifts of the HS 1cor 14:5

    1 Corinthians 14:5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies <I>is </I>greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

    I also want you to notice that Paul said I wish you ALL spoke with tongues which means that not everybody in the 1st century spoke with tongues. In fact not everone had a miracleous gift at all.

    1 Corinthians 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another <I>divers </I>kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

    1 Corinthians 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

    1 Corinthians 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

    So you see even those in the 1st century did not ALL have a mircleous gift nor did ALL of them speak in tongues. When the Word was fully revealed Miracles which includes speaking in tongues ceased 1Cor 13:8-13. When we came to the unity of THE FAITH (the revealed word of God and not the unity of everyone beliving the same thing. See Jude 3) the purpose of the miracles ceased since the word of God was fully revealed. Eph 4:11-14. We do not have apostles or prophets today because they fully revealed the word in the 1st century. We know have that revealed word all in one book and we have everything we need to know to be saved (Jn 20:31) and and assurance that we are saved.(eph 3:12)&nbsp;We are fully furnished and complete with the word of God that we have know. 2Tim 3:16-17. We don't have to have a sigh today to show we are saved it is by our faith in our God that we know that we are saved when we humble ourselves and and obey God and try to be good servents. This would include having our sins washed away just like Paul did in acts 22:16.

    Speaking in a new tongue is speaking in a language that you have never spoken before. This is what happened on the day of Pentacost in act 2. The apostles were HS baptized and began speaking to each group in their own language. acts 2:6-8. What an awsome demonstration to the unbeliver to hear someone teaching Jesus crucified in their own language when they know the person could'nt possible know their language. 1cor 14:22. The word in greek for "tongue" and "tongues" is as follows.<B>1100 glw/ssa </B>glossa {gloce-sah'} • of uncertain affinity; TDNT - 1:719,123; n f • AV - tongue 50; 50 • 1) the tongue, a member of the body, an organ of speech 2) a tongue 1a) the language or dialect used by a particular people distinct from that of other nations

    so when the bible talks about tongues or tongue you can determine from the context wheather or not it is talking about the actual tongue or speaking in another language. The bible does not say that speaking in tongues is a heavenly language to the best of memory. Where the confusion comes in&nbsp;is in 1cort 14. First you should understand that this chapters is comparing prophecy to speaking in tongues. It talks about how prophecy is for the beliver and tongues for the unbeliver. Here is one of the verses I think that they use to say they are speaking a heavenly language.

    1Cor 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands <I>him; </I>however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.

    Again remember in this chapter it comparing prophesy to tongue speaking. If someone is speaking in an unknow language like spainsh to english speaking folks they wont have a clue what he is saying. The reason why it says he is speaking to God is because God can understand all of our languages and he is the only one that can. This is not saying that those speaking in tongues are speaking some type of angle language or heavenly language. This chapter gives very strong proof that the tongues being spoken are languages that are in the world and not a heavenly language.

    10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them <I>is </I>without significance.

    18 I thank my God I speak with <B>tongues </B>more than you all;

    19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

    21 In the law it is written: "With <I>men of </I>other tongues and other lips I will speak to this people; And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me," says the Lord.

    Notice vrs 10 within this context of this chapter is saying that the languages are in the world. Paul who had to go around and preach to different speaking people was glad that he used tongues more but in the church where the beliver were and the same speaking people were he would rather speak 5 words with his understanding than 10,000 words in a tounge. Finally verse 21 again tells us that it was going to be languages that people spoke. Just look at the word tongue or tongues and you will see that it is used throughout the NT speaking or a language that one nation or another speaks or understand. Again, it is the same greek word for all of them as far I have found. Just look at Rev 7:9, 10:11, 11:9 and you see here it talking about different languages that are spoke on the earth. I hope this is helpful.

    God Bless,

    Cougan
    &nbsp;
     
  8. Didaskomenos

    Didaskomenos Voiced Bilabial Spirant

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    What a ridiculous thing to say. Billy Graham has never been "baptized in the Holy Ghost [sic]," and yet I daresay he has been more used of God than you or I. Don't make ridiculous claims unbacked by the NT.
     
  9. Quiet Storm

    Quiet Storm Back in Shepherd's arms

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    Thanks, all, for your replies and scriptural backup. It's really helped me a lot. :)
     
  10. rapturefish

    rapturefish Kingdom Citizen, Spiritual Nomad

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    1 Corinthians 13:1 suggests the possibility of more than one kind of tongue, and the possibility of one being a heavenly language - though this passage is written in a hyperbolic manner the other examples given suggest this is not exaggeration on the level of the impossible (e.g. "even if I could climb the Eiffel Tower..." vs "even if I could climb all the way to Mars").

    Other references in 1 Corinthians 12-14 suggest the mysterious nature of the language, hence the need for someone with a spiritual enabling to interpret rather than a known language translator whose ability is a natural one. This would also suggest the language is an unknown one to the human civilization, maybe it's an extinct language or perhaps a heavenly one. The text does open the possibility of it being a heavenly language.

    In the end though it's a moot point since whatever the language, it is foreign to everyone unless the Spirit enables an interpretation. And in the church setting Paul outlines ways of doing so in a loving way,for the encouragement of the church and avoiding the chaotic manner the Corinthian church had been using it. Whatever the manner they were using it's clear they were going overboard with the gift and forgetting to include those who couldn't understand the spiritual language in being edified by not having some interpretation.

    blessings,
     
  11. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    1 Cor. 12:13&nbsp; For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    Acts 1:5&nbsp;for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

    To be baptized with the Holy Spirit is to be full of the Holy Spirit or filled with the Holy Spirit. Even under the law, the craftsman and artists who built the temple were filled with the Spirit.

    Exodus 28:3&nbsp; So you shall speak to all who are gifted artisans, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments, to consecrate him, that he may minister to Me as priest.

    Exodus 31:3&nbsp;And I have filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

    You do not have to be FULL of the Holy Spirit as Stephen, Paul and many of the others were. But&nbsp; you do have to be FILLED with the Holy Spirit to be used by God.

    Those who have the Holy Spirit UPON them, are saved, and God maybe calling them. But they can not be used by God, 'tell they are filled with the Holy Spirit.

    As far as Billy Graham if he is baptized in the Holy Spirit or not. If he is used of God or not, I am not going to judge. I have a ministry that I am a part of, and I know what we have to do, in order to be used of God. My pastor is about the same age as Billy Graham and still going strong, while Billy Graham is starting to slow down and do less then what he was doing.


    Just what standard are you going by to judge that Billy Graham is "used of God"? The ministy I am a part of reaches just as many people as Billy Graham.&nbsp;One difference between our ministry and his is we see a lot more miracles and healings. How many people are healed of Aids when Billy Graham goes to Africa and preaches?




    Perhaps the problem was I used the word IN the Holy Spirit rather then the word WITH the Holy Spirit. I will try to be more careful about that, if it will make it more clear for people. Thanks, JohnR7
     
  12. Didaskomenos

    Didaskomenos Voiced Bilabial Spirant

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    Good grief! Speaking of inane babbling...

    This does not dignify a response. Everyone understands you loud and clear, John.
     
  13. Walks~with~Spirit

    Walks~with~Spirit ~I know the Truth~

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    I always have and always will speak in tongues. It makes me feel better.
     
  14. nickyandersonuk

    nickyandersonuk Follower Of Jesus

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    Interesting never heard the teaching that if you can't speak in tongues your not saved. Sounds a little extreme,

    Interesting that you need to be baptised for service, can you define service has i know many people that arn't baptised and their service to many fellow followers of Jesus is brilliant they help the poor and needed they visit widows and do all kinds of service for mankind.

    It says that this people have been baptised for service but dosn't mean that is the actual fact and categorically the absoulte truth. unless this baptism is relating to people that are sent out to do full time ministry.

    I just want to see positive scripture that makes people more like Christ not scritpure that condems people or makes them feel guilty.

    remember we can let our good be spoken has evil somtimes

    Speaking in tongues is interesting, and amzing and it takes faith, when i spoke in tongues i didn't believe it so i went up to a stranger asked him the time he looked europeon so i spoke in tongues to him and asked if he know what i was saying his answer was i have many friends who are greek and what you are saying sound greek.

    I also use praying in tongues to give me strength

    If you eagerly desire to speak in tongues at Gods will you shall have it but don't fall into any kind of anguish over it remember Gods yoke is light and not a burden

    Tons of Love

    Nick
     
  15. MichaelFJF

    MichaelFJF Well-Known Member

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    Back to the original question, Fr. Fio Mascarehnhas, SJ, in his book "The Holy Spirit" describes the 3 types of 'tongue' gifts.

    1 - Miraculous -&nbsp;speaking a real language not known to the speaker, rare, and meant as a sign to the unbeliever.

    2 - Message&nbsp;for the believers - unintelligible in itself, needing another charismatic gift, interpretation of tongues.

    3 - Prayer - the most common, with two characteristics; it must be vocalized (not meant to be silent prayer), but is unintelligible in itself.

    Nowhere is it written that it is a condition of salvation.
     
  16. reeann

    reeann Trust and Obey

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    I have the Holy Spirit indwelling within me and I have friends who both speak in tongues and those who do not. I witness to God using both types. I also have seen sin amongst both tongues speaking and non tongues speaking. It seems to me, there is not difference in the Saint. As far as being used of God, God uses even the unsaved to further His perfect will.

    Careful, and heed the measuring stick you use, for the same will be used to measure you. Matthew 7 Things That Count with God
    (1) 1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.

    And, seek first spirit fruits, instead of spirtual gifts, because in the end, that is what will matter:

    1 Corinthians 13
    Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbals.....
    13And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
     
  17. reeann

    reeann Trust and Obey

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    Cougan:

    I just wanted to say, your post was like a feast.&nbsp; I have cut and pasted it to study at a later time, thank you for the hard work put into that post.
     
  18. waterwizard

    waterwizard Senior Veteran

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    Nicky,

    Are you stating here that you can speak in tongue any time you wish?&nbsp; On demand?

    I haven't studied the subject that much, but it seems to me that the gift of speaking in tongue is not one you can turn on and off like a faucet.&nbsp; The ones I have seen that were truly speaking in tongue were deep in worship and praise, and I don't believe they could do it on the street if anyone asked them to.&nbsp;

    Just my observation, though....
     
  19. Knight

    Knight Knight of the Cross

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  20. EJO

    EJO Hellafreak

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    I have not read the other notes and posts on your thread, but I want to know from you- what is your scriture that shows that Jesus said these things.

    Paul teaches in 1 Corinthians 13:5-6 that the speaking of tongues if it is for the church, than there must be an interpritation because it is to build up and edify the church. in vs6-9 " what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching?
    7 Yet even lifeless things, either flute or harp, in producing a sound, if they do not produce a distinction in the tones, how will it be known what is played on the flute or on the harp?
    8 For if the bugle produces an indistinct sound, who will prepare himself for battle?
    9 So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.

    Which is to say- we who have the gift of tongues- which no every one has per se(see 1Cor ch12) We should only speak in it if there is a interpritation(11 If then I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be to the one who speaks a barbarian, and the one who speaks will be a barbarian to me.
    12 So also you, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek to abound for the edification of the church.). If we want to edify the church, say it in your own language- english if you are in the u.s..

    But we should speak in tongues in our prayer closets that they may interpret it themselves(1cor13:13 Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.).


    God Bless ~ EJO
     
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