Speaking in tongues -- revisited -- your thoughts?

[Mountainmanbob]

Agree for the most part.
M-Bob

 

[Lost4words]

What are the key points as i cant view the video as my data allowance would be swallowed up.

Thank you

 

[Mountainmanbob]

What are the key points as i cant view the video as my data allowance would be swallowed up.

Thank you

One of the key points would be that a person does not need to be able to speak in tongues to be filled or as we hear often extra filled with the Holy Spirit.

I'm sure more will chime in.

M-Bob

 

[Lost4words]

For me, speaking in tongues was done by the Apostles to spread the Gospel to all nations, where, they could hear it in their very own 'Language'.

What we hear today is babbling. I don't believe it is from God.

 

[A_Thinker]

What are the key points as i cant view the video as my data allowance would be swallowed up.

Thank you

The speaker make (4) basic points ...

1) The gift of tongues is "speaking in a known language"
2) The gift of tongues is not an indicator of spiritual superiority
3) The gift of tongues depends upon the gifting of the Holy Spirit
4) There is no incidence of the "praying in tongues" in the scripture.
5) If tongues are expressed in a public setting, there should be an interpreter.

I pretty much agree with what he says, but I do think that Paul speaks of praying in tongues in 1 Corinthians 14

 

[HTacianas]

Whatever "speaking in tongues" was, it disappeared from the church a very long time ago. There are no accounts of it anywhere in the history of the church.

 

[Dave L]

Here are some points to consider;

At Pentecost, the Apostles did not speak in human languages as many assume. They spoke in a heavenly language understood only by those with the gift of understanding, the devout Jews. Others heard only gibberish.

Besides the two outpourings, only an apostle could transfer the gift through the laying on of hands.

The gifts were temporary, ending when the last apostle, John, died, after sealing up the vision and prophecy with the publishing of Revelation.

All prophecy since then is false along with tongue speaking.

Originally, the tongue speaker was edified because they knew what they were saying. Paul says understanding is the basis for edification. Today's tongue speakers know not what they say.

 

[LoricaLady]

Since you asked for an opinion on the vid, I will be frank. To me the speaker is just one of endless people on YT who really don't know what they are talking about, but feel sure they do!

However, in case anyone is curious, I will tell the story of how I got that gift. Actually, I didn't even really want it. I was a new Christian, and in a Bible study I heard about something called the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. It wasn't real clear to me what that was, but it seemed to maybe, maybe, involve speaking in tongues. Now I wanted the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but not tongues, really. Tongues just seemed too weird.

Well, I got a little book called The Holy Spirit And You. Now before reading it I had tried to kind of experience what speaking in tongues might be like, by making some sounds with my mouth. That was an embarrassing effort.

When I was reading the book, I read out loud, without thinking what I was doing, the prayer to receive a "heavenly language." Well, maybe I didn't take the prayer seriously, but the Father sure did.

Suddenly to my surprise, after that prayer, my jaw dropped of its own accord and I could speak in tongues, even sing in tongues! It sounded like another language! Now I don't want to be crude, but this is the best analogy I can think of. There was kind of a pressure to speak that way that reminds me of when you have to go to the potty, but you can "hold it" if you want to do so. I chose not to "hold it" but went on speaking and singing in tongues for several hours.

Since then I've never felt that sense of gentle pressure, but still use tongues voluntarily often. One result of that first experience was that in a few days I noticed a greater peace. I always had a pretty bad temper. Not that I never have to watch my temper now, but things are way, way better. For example, a lady who had been working with me for some years was quite surprised that I had ever had a temper, though the people in my previous work place, before I got the gift of tongues, knew I had a temper!

The Bible does say there is a kind of tongues where "no man understands", but that you "speak unto the Father" so that leaves out the kind where you speak in a foreign language you do not know. That also invalidates what the vid guy says about there being no reference to such a gift. I couldn't listen past that to tell the truth.

However, I do feel that the gift of tongues is not THE sign that one is saved. It is a gift from the Holy Spirit, though, so why not get it if you don't have it?

I do not want to debate this, so though I wish everyone to get this gift if they don't have it, I will not be back due to time constraints. If you have any personal Qs on this issue, though, feel free to PM me and if I can help in any way, I will.

 

[Lost4words]

The devil can deceive. He is a master at it. Beware I would say. May God protect everyone.

 

[LoricaLady]

Here are some points to consider;

At Pentecost, the Apostles did not speak in human languages as many assume. They spoke in a heavenly language understood only by those with the gift of understanding, the devout Jews. Others heard only gibberish.

Besides the two outpourings, only an apostle could transfer the gift through the laying on of hands.

The gifts were temporary, ending when the last apostle, John, died, after sealing up the vision and prophecy with the publishing of Revelation.

All prophecy since then is false along with tongue speaking.

Originally, the tongue speaker was edified because they knew what they were saying. Paul says understanding is the basis for edification. Today's tongue speakers know not what they say.

Well, I will have this one more thing to say after all. Does the Bible say that the gift of tongues was only for the apostolic age? Well, it says tongues will cease but in the exact same sentence where it says knowledge and prophecies will cease. So it seems knowledge and prophecies are on the same time table as tongues, and we know knowledge and prophecies have not ceased.

"Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away."

Now if anyone doesn't see what that Bible verse is saying, or where the Bible talks about how we can speak in tongues and "no man understands" then nothing further I have to say will be helpful to that person. So, best wishes, blessings and bye!

 

[Dave L]

Well, I will have this one more thing to say after all. Does the Bible say that the gift of tongues was only for the apostolic age? Well, it says tongues will cease but in the exact same sentence where it says knowledge and prophecies will cease. So it seems knowledge and prophecies are on the same time table as tongues, and we know knowledge and prophecies have not ceased.

"Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away."

Now if anyone doesn't see what that Bible verse is saying, or where the Bible talks about how we can speak in tongues and "no man understands" then nothing further I have to say will be helpful to that person. So, best wishes, blessings and bye!

If scripture is perfect, tongues ceased when scripture was complete.

 

[A_Thinker]

If scripture is perfect, tongues ceased when scripture was complete.

LoricalLady's point is a valid one.

Do you also believe that KNOWLEDGE has vanished away ?

1 Corinthians 13

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

 

[Dave L]

LoricalLady's point is a valid one.

Do you also believe that KNOWLEDGE has vanished away ?

1 Corinthians 13

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Here's how it works:

the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ

“so that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye be unreproveable in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, through whom ye were called into the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.” (1 Corinthians 1:7–9)

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;” (Revelation 1:1)

All of the gifts expired, and history confirms this, as John published Revelation.


602. ἀποκάλυψις apŏkalupsis, ap-ok-al´-oop-sis; from 601; disclosure:—appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.

Strong, J. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Vol. 1, p. 14).

used for Revelation by Paul and John

 

[A_Thinker]

Here's how it works:

the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ

“so that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye be unreproveable in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, through whom ye were called into the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.” (1 Corinthians 1:7–9)

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;” (Revelation 1:1)

All of the gifts expired, and history confirms this, as John published Revelation.


602. ἀποκάλυψις apŏkalupsis, ap-ok-al´-oop-sis; from 601; disclosure:—appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.

Strong, J. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Vol. 1, p. 14).

used for Revelation by Paul and John

So you do believe that KNOWLEDGE has vanished away ?

 

[Dave L]

So you do believe that KNOWLEDGE has vanished away ?

The word of knowledge was a spiritual gift. Do we know anything? if so, that kind of knowledge remains.

 

[akaDaScribe]

I always thought it would be interesting to do a scientific study on tongues. With so much audio and video out there, we could easily gather audio and see if there are any language patterns and/or words that seem to correlate to specific meanings.

Not how I plan to spend this weekend, but it would be an awesome investigation.

 

[akaDaScribe]

The speaker make (4) basic points ...

1) The gift of tongues is "speaking in a known language"
2) The gift of tongues is not an indicator of spiritual superiority
3) The gift of tongues depends upon the gifting of the Holy Spirit
4) There is no incidence of the "praying in tongues" in the scripture.
5) If tongues are expressed in a public setting, there should be an interpreter.

I pretty much agree with what he says, but I do think that Paul speaks of praying in tongues in 1 Corinthians 14

Co13:1 "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal."

Not sure about that first point.

 

[tdidymas]

Agree for the most part.
M-Bob

I do agree, and have some detail to add to the discussion:

1. The clip he showed of a religious meeting looked more like a voodoo session than Christian worship.

2. He mentions that many of those people claim that every Christian should seek to speak in tongues (going against what scripture says), which implies that anyone can do it, which implies that it is not a miraculous event, but a human phenomenon. Research has been done on this subject proving it:
https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/69110/1/The linguisticality of glossolalia.pdf

3. I spent many years among them, as I used to be one of them, and I am now convinced that most if not all of modern day glossalalia including what I did is not the tongues of the Bible. In the video he doesn't say or imply this. In fact he makes a statement that implies the possibility that there is some tongues speaking that could be authentic today. I have heard testimonies that there has been Biblical tongues spoken in various places. However, I know (having much experience) that these people tend to exaggerate and "gossip" miracles into existence. Unfortunately It's all suspect unless I see it for myself.

4. I have had several discussions with people in forum about it, but when I get to the request that their "tongues" be tested by a linguist, they become fearful and begin to declare sacrilege. It tells me that tongues today is a sacred cow.
TD

 

[tdidymas]

I always thought it would be interesting to do a scientific study on tongues. With so much audio and video out there, we could easily gather audio and see if there are any language patterns and/or words that seem to correlate to specific meanings.

Not how I plan to spend this weekend, but it would be an awesome investigation.

That research has already been done:
https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/69110/1/The linguisticality of glossolalia.pdf
https://www.amazon.com/Tongues-men-...003&sr=1-2&keywords=tongues+of+men+and+angels
TD

 

[akaDaScribe]

That research has already been done:
https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/69110/1/The linguisticality of glossolalia.pdf
https://www.amazon.com/Tongues-men-...003&sr=1-2&keywords=tongues+of+men+and+angels
TD

The pdf is a dead link