Speaking and praying in tongues? Real or fake?

[Dave L]

You do have an Old Testament and you can read and understand it can't you?

1 person fulfilling 8 prophecies: 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000 1 person fulfilling 48 prophecies: 1 chance in 10 to the 157th power 1 person fulfilling 300+ prophecies: Only Jesus!
Biblical Prophecies Fulfilled by Jesus
JPS Isaiah 53:3-11
(3) He was despised, and forsaken of men, a man of pains, and acquainted with disease, and as one from whom men hide their face: he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
(4) Surely our diseases he did bear, and our pains he carried; whereas we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
(5) But he was wounded because of our transgressions, he was crushed because of our iniquities: the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his stripes we were healed.
(6) All we like sheep did go astray, we turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath made to light on him the iniquity of us all.
(7) He was oppressed, though he humbled himself and opened not his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before her shearers is dumb; yea, he opened not his mouth.
(8) By oppression and judgment he was taken away, and with his generation who did reason? for he was cut off out of the land of the living, for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due.
(9) And they made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich his tomb; although he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.'
(10) Yet it pleased the LORD to crush him by disease; to see if his soul would offer itself in restitution, that he might see his seed, prolong his days, and that the purpose of the LORD might prosper by his hand:
(11) Of the travail of his soul he shall see to the full, even My servant, who by his knowledge did justify the Righteous One to the many, and their iniquities he did bear.​

The Jews in ancient times considered this passage to be Messianic.

John Gill Commentary on the Whole Bible
The ancient Jews understood this of the Messiah; in one place they say (o),
"chastisements are divided into three parts, one to David and the fathers, one to our generation, and one to the King Messiah; as it is written, "he was wounded for our transgressions; and bruised for our iniquities":''
and in another place (p),
"at that time they shall declare to the Messiah the troubles of Israel in captivity, and the wicked which are among them, that do not mind to know the Lord; he shall lift up his voice, and weep over the wicked among them; as it is said, "he was wounded for our transgressions", &c.''
and with his stripes we are healed; or "by his stripe" (q), or "bruise": properly the black and blue mark of it, so called from the gathering and settling of the blood where the blow is given.
(o) Mechilta apud Yalkut, par. 2. fol 90. 1.
(p) Zohar in Exod. fol. 85. 2. See also Midrash Ruth, fol. 33. 2. and Zohar in Deut. fol. 117. 3. and R. Moses Hadarsan apud Galatia de Arcan. Cath. Ver. I. 8. c. 15 p. 586. and in I. 6. c. 2. p. 436.

​

I'm just saying some of the most skilled in the languages still do not understand the bible because it is a spiritual book needing revelation by God.

 

[ewq1938]

1 Corinthians 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an FOREIGN LANGUAGE speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.


What good is it to speak in a language no hearer but God can understand?


1 Corinthians 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
1 Corinthians 14:4 He that speaketh in a FOREIGN LANGUAGE edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.


If one speaks in a FORIEGN LANGUAGE that only he knows and no other, then he only edifies himself and does nothing good to those who are listening but cannot understand.

1 Corinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with FOREIGN LANGUAGES, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with FOREIGN LANGUAGES, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.


It is better to speak in an understood language and prophesy rather than speak a FOREIGN LANGUAGE unless you interpret what you are saying in a language that the listeners understand.



1 Corinthians 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with FOREIGN LANGUAGES, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?


But to come simply speaking in various languages that aren't understood profits no one.

1 Corinthians 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?


It is the same with a musical instrument. What good is playing one if it is randomly played with indistinct sounds? It is the same when you speak "in a tongue".


1 Corinthians 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?


Certain trumpet sounds (short musical pieces) signified certain actions to be carried out. Have you ever heard a trumpet sound at the horse races that tells the racers to begin the race? What if the trumpet made a strange sound no one knew? It would be confusion.



1 Corinthians 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.


Do not utter "words" which are not easy to understand. If it is not easily understood by the listener then the speaker has done something wrong.



1 Corinthians 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
1 Corinthians 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.


915

915 barbaros {bar'-bar-os}

of uncertain derivation; TDNT - 1:546,94; adj

AV - barbarian 5, barbarous 1; 6

1) one whose speech is rude, rough and harsh
2) one who speaks a foreign or strange language which is not
understood by another
3) used by the Greeks of any foreigner ignorant of the Greek
language, whether mental or moral, with the added notion after
the Persian war, of rudeness and brutality. The word is used
in the N.T. without the idea of reproachfulness.

Take note esepcially of the last two definitions as this is exactly what Paul is addressing.


Do not speak and sound like a barbarian. This means do not speak ignorantly, in a mumbo-jumbo, gibberish, non-sense, false, made up by YOU "tongue".


1 Corinthians 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.


The zealous wish to have evidence of the Holy Spirit so they have this unintelligible thing, they call it an unknown tongue, but it is what Paul said to not do.


1 Corinthians 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

What I believe he is saying is this:

"If I pray in the words of a language I do not know or understand (like being able to pronounce the words of a Latin prayer but not understand what any of it means), then it is like I am praying but I have no idea what I am saying."

It reminds me how in "certain churches" when everything was conducted in Latin even though most people didn't understand Latin. WHen anyone prayed in Latin that did not know Latin, their spirit prayed and God knew that language but the person praying certainly didn't.



1 Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.


It is naturally better to pray with understanding of what is being said in a prayer.


1 Corinthians 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?


"the unlearned" refers to anyone who doesn't know the foreign language being spoken in a church, whether in an open prayer or a "sermon".


Here if one speaks in a language unknown to anyone, then how is anyone supposed to know when to say "Amen" since they couldn't have understood any of it? They wouldn't because they cannot understand what is being said and that also applies to the speaker.



1 Corinthians 14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
1 Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with FOREIGN LANGUAGES more than ye all:


Paul spoke many FOREIGN LANGUAGES which is why he was so perfect to go forth and spread the gospel to foreign countries!


1 Corinthians 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue/FOREIGN LANGUAGE.


And there you go!


It is better to speak 5 words someone can understand than 10,000 words in a language they cannot.

 

[Saint Steven]

1 Corinthians 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an FOREIGN LANGUAGE speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.


What good is it to speak in a language no hearer but God can understand?

Say what?
You inserted "FOREIGN LANGUAGE" into scripture. The same verse says "no man understandeth him". How can it be a foreign language if "no man" understands him? Would there not be a foreigner somewhere that could understand? (some man)

 

[Saint Steven]

It is better to speak in an understood language and prophesy rather than speak a FOREIGN LANGUAGE unless you interpret what you are saying in a language that the listeners understand.

Not all tongues speaking is prophecy. (a prophetic message for the entire congregation - #3 in the list below)

Five Different kinds of tongues
1) Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God
2) Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit
3) Prophetic ministry language - Addressing a message to the whole congregation
4) Singing in the Spirit - Singing in tongues/worship activity
5) Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not yours)

 

[Saint Steven]

Do not utter "words" which are not easy to understand. If it is not easily understood by the listener then the speaker has done something wrong.

No, not done something wrong. Something that does not edify the congregation as much as it could if it was understandable.

Everything in your long post indicates an ignorant bias against tongues.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

If they are edified by so doing, and understanding is the basis for being edified, they certainly knew what they were saying. You need to drop the framework passed down by the hicks at Asuza street and read Acts and Corinthians for yourself and find out what it really says.

Your mistake is a continual doubt that edification can come other than by understanding alone.

 

[Dave L]

Your mistake is a continual doubt that edification can come other than by understanding alone.

Scripture defines edification as it relates to tongues and understanding.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Look at their credentials and then turn the interpretation of scripture over to them. And then follow what they say while dividing yourself off from the church.

The credentials are Gordon Fee, Wayne Grudem, and numerous Bible colleges and universities.

 

[Dave L]

The credentials are Gordon Fee, Wayne Grudem, and numerous Bible colleges and universities.

All off base.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Scripture defines edification as it relates to tongues and understanding.

Jesus' blood when sprinkled on an unclean heart, edifies and cleans, by faith, and not understanding.

 

[Dave L]

Jesus' blood when sprinkled on an unclean heart, edifies and cleans, by faith, and not understanding.

This does not relate to tongues.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

This does not relate to tongues.

I make the point that like Jesus' sacred blood, tongues edifies without understanding.

 

[Dave L]

I make the point that like Jesus' sacred blood, tongues edifies without understanding.

Not true. Understanding is the basis for edification = today's tongues are false.

 

[ewq1938]

Say what?
You inserted "FOREIGN LANGUAGE" into scripture.

That's what Paul is talking about. "unknown tongues" is simple a language no one else knows. If you speak that in a church of people who don't know the language your speaking (like Latin to a French crowd) then they won't understand unless there is a translator.

 

[Saint Steven]

That's what Paul is talking about. "unknown tongues" is simple a language no one else knows. If you speak that in a church of people who don't know the language your speaking (like Latin to a French crowd) then they won't understand unless there is a translator.

Do you speak in tongues?

 

[ewq1938]

Do you speak in tongues?

Yes, English and some German.

 

[Saint Steven]

Yes, English and some German.

That would do little good in understanding tongues.

 

[MariaJLM]

It's just gibberish. It may have been a thing at one point, but anybody who claims to do it today is suffering from prelest.

 

[Saint Steven]

It's just gibberish. It may have been a thing at one point, but anybody who claims to do it today is suffering from prelest.

What a thing to say to your brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[MariaJLM]

What a thing to say to your brothers and sisters in Christ.

Just being honest because that's all "speaking in tongues" is. The meaning in the Bible is very different as well. When the Apostles spoke in tongues it merely meant they could speak and understand other human languages they ordinarily could not.